Nelson and his Column

[mikeyjh]

I can't understand the pulling down of any statues tbh, whether we admire these people, or celebrate them is kind of irrelevant, they are part of history, they were celebrated as 'heroes' at the time and it helps us to understand the context of the time. Be it, Sadam, Adolf, Stalin, Nelson whoever, great historical interest...

Thatcher on the other hand, I'd happily see it built so I could see it pulled down.

 

[Triggaaar]

It is hysterical becuase nowhere is she trying to extend the article to the things you are mentioning. You are creating a "straw man" which you then knock down.

He's not building a straw man, he's simply making comparisons.

She is using Nelson's column as a metaphore for the things we admire and how she thinks we are mistaken and missing the things we really should admire.

Right, so to be clear, you're saying that she doesn't actually think we should take any statues down?

 

[Eeyore]

I thought Nelson's column was knocked down when the Slitheen space craft hit it in 2005. Perhaps [MENTION=4675]Frutos[/MENTION] can help us out here. It would make the question redundant.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Guardian clickbait nonsense. The only statues I would remove from our streets are the painted geezers in silver.

 

[penny's harmonica]

Is this lunacy going to cross the channel? Best visit Rome now as there won't be much left after all the offensive statues and monuments are pulled down

 

[BBassic]

No, this is not America.

Whether it's overlooking the past, Nelson is remembered mainly for the Battle of Trafalgar and his other sea victories, and why 21st October is celebrated.

If there is a desire to confront the British Empire period, rather than knocking down statues it would be better to erect new ones to educate a new generation about the pro and cons of the Empire. Fortunately such statues are not beacons for the far right in the UK.

All of this. When we learnt about Nelson in school the focus was on his naval achievements and that's what the statue was erected for.

As you say, it's an educational matter now. Teach about Nelson's battles but also include the wider political and social climate.

 

[Bwian]

Maybe we should ask Winnie-she used to like Nelson's column?

the old ones are the best

 

[Buzzer]

The permanently offended.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Usually, when right-wingers take offence at social justice warriors such as this Guardian columnist it's because ridiculous offence has already been taken by said SJW at some slight that was hitherto unknown and usually trivial in comparison to other related issues at hand. In this case a monument to a historic British icon who they've decided was a white supremacist without any detailed justification and stupidly applying 21st Century moral codes and ethics onto a culture 200 years ago. It equally applies though to third-wave feminists who find sexism in Western liberal democracies worth fighting against but completely ignore the abuse suffered by women in other cultures and countries.

Yes slavery was bad at the turn of the 19th century and yes black people in Britain had it bad but if the columnist was really intent on making a stand against slavery then it might be more pertinent and worthwhile actually trying to stop the slavery that exists today in the world rather than blowing smoke out their arse at what happened 200 years ago. I note that she has Ghanaian heritage. Well...I'm a member of Anti-Slavery International a charity that campaigns for the end of slavery worldwide and therefore I'm well aware of the issues of slavery in Ghana, in neighbouring Burkina Faso, in neighbouring Mali and especially in Mauritania where the government is complicit in keeping alive the centuries old slave trade in that country.

Once again, SJWs such as Afua Hirsch pick an easy target that they can sink their teeth into and pretend that they're trying to change the world when in fact they're just playing at it. Slavery won't be ended in these countries by guilt-tripping Western democracies on their past and I really wonder if Ms Hirsch is bothered at all by the extremely huge slavery problem in North Africa. I suspect if she were to address it, she might discover a few inconvenient truths about what black people are doing to other black people without any white people to blame.

Yes, I must confess Ms Hirsch offends me...or rather she offends and insults my intelligence.

 

[daveinprague]

Think this is just bandwagon stuff. I do agree with the Confederate statues being taken down though.

 

[jcdenton08]

Pedant alert, ellipsis points require only three...

Pedant alart, ellipsis points demand only three.

 

[Buzzer]

Pedant alart, ellipsis points demand only three.

"alert".

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Pedant alart, ellipsis points demand only three.

Pedant alert, four points can be used when the ellipsis points follow a sentence ending period.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Only if it becomes "Thatcher's Column"

 

[jakarta]

So it is important to you and you've given a perfectly good reason as to why. I don't know why you didn't just engage sensibly like that from the start as it was a far better response than your original glib nonsense - rubbishing those who choose to raise the issue in that annoying 'alt-right' manner is well beneath you, IMO.

As for my opinion, well I think I agree with you. Nelson is probably not the first statue we should consider pulling down, as he is not synonymous with slavery in any way. As you say, his views have to be taken into context of the prevailing views at the time. In the same way that Martin Luther King had some dodgy views on homosexuals, does that mean all his statues should be removed too, seeing as that is also incompatible with modern day tolerance? Of course not.

But, I do believe some statues need to be replaced with women. I feel quite strongly about the fact that we just don't have enough prominent women in society. That kerfuffle with Clarkes shoes really is the thin end of that particular wedge.

I clearly had a bad start to my day, my last post reflects what I wanted to say far better.

 

[jcdenton08]

Pedant alert, four points can be used when the ellipsis points follow a sentence ending period.

Pedant alert, in the UK we use 'full stop'.

 

[heathgate]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Usually, when right-wingers take offence at social justice warriors such as this Guardian columnist it's because ridiculous offence has already been taken by said SJW at some slight that was hitherto unknown and usually trivial in comparison to other related issues at hand. In this case a monument to a historic British icon who they've decided was a white supremacist without any detailed justification and stupidly applying 21st Century moral codes and ethics onto a culture 200 years ago. It equally applies though to third-wave feminists who find sexism in Western liberal democracies worth fighting against but completely ignore the abuse suffered by women in other cultures and countries.

Yes slavery was bad at the turn of the 19th century and yes black people in Britain had it bad but if the columnist was really intent on making a stand against slavery then it might be more pertinent and worthwhile actually trying to stop the slavery that exists today in the world rather than blowing smoke out their arse at what happened 200 years ago. I note that she has Ghanaian heritage. Well...I'm a member of Anti-Slavery International a charity that campaigns for the end of slavery worldwide and therefore I'm well aware of the issues of slavery in Ghana, in neighbouring Burkina Faso, in neighbouring Mali and especially in Mauritania where the government is complicit in keeping alive the centuries old slave trade in that country.

Once again, SJWs such as Afua Hirsch pick an easy target that they can sink their teeth into and pretend that they're trying to change the world when in fact they're just playing at it. Slavery won't be ended in these countries by guilt-tripping Western democracies on their past and I really wonder if Ms Hirsch is bothered at all by the extremely huge slavery problem in North Africa. I suspect if she were to address it, she might discover a few inconvenient truths about what black people are doing to other black people without any white people to blame.

Yes, I must confess Ms Hirsch offends me...or rather she offends and insults my intelligence.

Good post, good read..... and in my view spot on.

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[BNthree]

Why does 'empire' and 'colonialism' always stop at the borders of western Europe..... Africa, the Middle East and Asia cornered the market in Empires and Slavery a long time before we started spreading our wings across the planet.

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Exactly! Was trying to point out it isn't a uniquely British phenomenon and all countries have skeletons in the closet.

 

[The_NitramJohn]

He is a great Naval & English Hero - this is what the column celebrates.

Why is it the extreme left - who claim to believe in equal rights for everyone, are some of the most bigoted & narrow minded people, I have ever experienced!


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[Thunder Bolt]

I'm not sure why you addressed the question to me, since I didn't mention slavery in my post - that was deliberate.

Nelson's unpleasant characteristics, upon which most biographers and scholars agree, were that he treated his womenfolk very badly, both his wife & Emma, he was cruel (particularly in stuff related to the Nile), and he was self-promoting to the point of deception. His record on slavery is more nuanced, which is why I didn't (and won't) refer to it. Sugden, Knight, and Hibbert are probably the best places to start.

I wasn't aiming a question, nor was it to you. I'm sorry if it appeared that way. I was puzzled as to why people are saying he supported slavery.

 

[The Gem]

Another one who can F*CK right off for me.

And if she does not like the Country we live in then F*CK off to another country and spill your vile putrid attitude to people who give a S*IT

1st class C*NT.