Nelson and his Column

[Brighton Mod]

This country's PC brigade won't be happy until every white person of Anglo Saxon heritage has apologised for everything this country has ever done and are in chains as slaves themselves and not represented in any capacity in boardrooms, parliament, sports, education, culture and so forth.

You can see why Brexit happened, people were sick of liberal fanaticism and general interference in our country - including rewriting our history. Quite proud of Nelson myself. Stuck it to them Frenchies when Bonaparte was about to invade us. Perhaps we should have let him, not sure the French would be entertaining this idea with their historical greats!

This is how to make an apology, ha ha.

 

[portlock seagull]

Luckily as a person of mixed Anglo-Saxon and Slavic heritage I am able to apologise to myself for Brexit and also for Britain failing to help Poland out in any practical way in WWII. Plus the betrayal at Yalta of course.

Yep, we didn't really help Poland in WW2 did we!

 

[GT49er]

This country's PC brigade won't be happy until every white person of Anglo Saxon heritage has apologised for everything this country has ever done and are in chains as slaves themselves and not represented in any capacity in boardrooms, parliament, sports, education, culture and so forth.

Rubbish! It's 'every white man' who has to apologise for everything, not every white person!

Geez!

 

[Hamilton]

Yeah, let's rip it down.

Time to tell some new stories about the UK.

Why not move it to another city. It could go on tour.

 

[Hamilton]

Yep, we didn't really help Poland in WW2 did we!

Well, in actual fact, we didn't. At the end of the war we did a deal with the Soviets whereby we practically handed them the country so that they could rule it for the next 40 odd years with impunity.

 

[portlock seagull]

Well, in actual fact, we didn't. At the end of the war we did a deal with the Soviets whereby we practically handed them the country so that they could rule it for the next 40 odd years with impunity.

So you agree?!

 

[Buzzer]

So you agree?!

Agreed. I think most people will accept that the Poles were screwed right royally at Yalta but to say we didn't really help Poland in WWII is a bit rich considering ultimately it was the reason we went to war!

 

[Two Professors]

Nobody helped the Poles in WW2.The Russians even took a holiday during the Warsaw Uprising so they could occupy without any opposition left alive!
As for Nelson's statue,pull it down (as long as it falls on that stupid womans head!)

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

To get back to the original question for a moment.
1. Nelson is commemorated with statues and things because he was our greatest ever Naval hero - arguable greatest ever military hero of any kind. (I am not a military historian, so am happy to be corrected on that.
2. Nelson supported slavery - this is a bad thing.
3. Plenty of other people supported slavery at the time. Plenty of people claimed slaves received better treatment than they would have done had they been left in their homelands
4. Plenty of other people would cite instances of slaves being appallingly treated.
5. No doubt examples of both 4. and 5. could be found - it isn't black and white. (no pun intended)
6. Plenty of people in the Churches supported slavery - the Bishop of Exeter was famously a slave owner. Let's go and tear down Exeter Cathedral.
7. But the main push in this country for abolition came from the Churches - Baptists, Methodists, Quakers and no doubt others - the Guardian Readers of the day

So while I and no doubt most others on here find the concept of one person "owning" another totally abhorrent, it would not have been so universally held a view then and slavery for many would have been an "acceptable" view.

All of which for me means it would be just a tad OTT to tear down Nelson's column.

 

[portlock seagull]

Agreed. I think most people will accept that the Poles were screwed right royally at Yalta but to say we didn't really help Poland in WWII is a bit rich considering ultimately it was the reason we went to war!

Technically yes but really far from as sure you know (and before anyone else jumps in and try's to educate me on WW2, we're just summising here! We do both know our stuff! In fact I'd wager we know far more about than the average joe )

 

[portlock seagull]

Agreed. I think most people will accept that the Poles were screwed right royally at Yalta but to say we didn't really help Poland in WWII is a bit rich considering ultimately it was the reason we went to war!

Hang on, you're not Hamilton! To get things back on track Hamiltons reply didn't correspond with what I'd written i.e. He was in agreement with what I'd said, probably just read wrongly (go back and reread!). Anyway, my original reply was to not Naylor, where I was alluding to Poles being let down not only at Yalta but stretching all way back to 1939 when we had no intention of seriously helping them. Plus we ignored reports about death camps for some time. Anyway, that's all, glad cleared up, must dash and not really looking to debate hence the very rough points made. If you'd like to know more information about WW2 please consult AJP Taylor, Sir Max Hastings, William Shirer etc.

 

[Buzzer]

Hang on, you're not Hamilton! To get things back on track Hamiltons reply didn't correspond with what I'd written i.e. He was in agreement with what I'd said, probably just read wrongly (go back and reread!). Anyway, my original reply was to not Naylor, where I was alluding to Poles being let down not only at Yalta but stretching all way back to 1939 when we had no intention of seriously helping them. Plus we ignored reports about death camps for some time. Anyway, that's all, glad cleared up, must dash and not really looking to debate hence the very rough points made. If you'd like to know more information about WW2 please consult AJP Taylor, Sir Max Hastings, William Shirer etc.

Ah. I thought your reply was sarcastic. Whilst I'd certainly agree that lots more could have been done in hindsight, and that warnings of death camps were ignored for some time (although the reasons for this are many) we did actually go to war because of the invasion of Poland and we acted more or less alone on this after the French capitulation until the Yanks joined us in '42. I do think it is a very bizarre stick to beat the British with, to somehow insinuate that we did nothing.

 

[portlock seagull]

Ah. I thought your reply was sarcastic. Whilst I'd certainly agree that lots more could have been done in hindsight, and that warnings of death camps were ignored for some time (although the reasons for this are many) we did actually go to war because of the invasion of Poland and we acted more or less alone on this after the French capitulation until the Yanks joined us in '42. I do think it is a very bizarre stick to beat the British with, to somehow insinuate that we did nothing.

I think we both know our general history so let's not waste time on Literals. When it comes to reality and detail, how many tonnes did we drop on Germany to halt their Blitzkrieg of Poland? Bearing in mind 1.5m soldiers invaded and you're going to need a bit of force to stop them. This will give you a clue as to our practical help. Declaring war is one thing. Fighting another. We did absolutely nothing. Because we couldn't. Parallels with yalta.

 

[Buzzer]

I think we both know our general history so let's not waste time on Literals. When it comes to reality and detail, how many tonnes did we drop on Germany to halt their Blitzkrieg of Poland? Bearing in mind 1.5m soldiers invaded and you're going to need a bit of force to stop them. This will give you a clue as to our practical help. Declaring war is one thing. Fighting another. We did absolutely nothing. Because we couldn't. Parallels with yalta.

I take your point fully and completely get where you're coming from but I think it's best if we respectfully agree to disagree!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

To get back to the original question for a moment.
1. Nelson is commemorated with statues and things because he was our greatest ever Naval hero - arguable greatest ever military hero of any kind. (I am not a military historian, so am happy to be corrected on that.
2. Nelson supported slavery - this is a bad thing.
3. Plenty of other people supported slavery at the time. Plenty of people claimed slaves received better treatment than they would have done had they been left in their homelands
4. Plenty of other people would cite instances of slaves being appallingly treated.
5. No doubt examples of both 4. and 5. could be found - it isn't black and white. (no pun intended)
6. Plenty of people in the Churches supported slavery - the Bishop of Exeter was famously a slave owner. Let's go and tear down Exeter Cathedral.
7. But the main push in this country for abolition came from the Churches - Baptists, Methodists, Quakers and no doubt others - the Guardian Readers of the day

So while I and no doubt most others on here find the concept of one person "owning" another totally abhorrent, it would not have been so universally held a view then and slavery for many would have been an "acceptable" view.

All of which for me means it would be just a tad OTT to tear down Nelson's column.

I still have to see evidence of number 2.

As I said, way back in post #63 - This puzzles me because Horatio was a supporter of William Pitt, who in turn supported William Wilberforce. I'd like a bit more evidence that Lord Nelson was actively supporting slavery, or more than any other personage of that time.

 

[portlock seagull]

I take your point fully and completely get where you're coming from but I think it's best if we respectfully agree to disagree!

Respect as always Buzzer! Have good evening, ciao!

 

[wellquickwoody]

Your reply wins you the Donald Trump award for stupididity, rudeness and angry prejudice. Well done !

Your a bit thick really aren't you? Although you like to pretend that that you are so so edumacated to enhance your liberal credentials to your trendy buddies.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I still have to see evidence of number 2.

As I said, way back in post #63 - This puzzles me because Horatio was a supporter of William Pitt, who in turn supported William Wilberforce. I'd like a bit more evidence that Lord Nelson was actively supporting slavery, or more than any other personage of that time.

Fair enough. I'm just trusting in the notion that what was in the original article is right so can neither confirm or deny it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Fair enough. I'm just trusting in the notion that what was in the original article is right so can neither confirm or deny it.

This is where the 'damage' lies within the article. It's lies by association.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I still have to see evidence of number 2.

As I said, way back in post #63 - This puzzles me because Horatio was a supporter of William Pitt, who in turn supported William Wilberforce. I'd like a bit more evidence that Lord Nelson was actively supporting slavery, or more than any other personage of that time.

Fair enough. I'm just trusting in the notion that what was in the original article is right so can neither confirm or deny it.

Having said that, I have just googles Nelson + Slavery and found this, in which Nelson's lettter does indicate his support of slavery and the colonies and his hatred of Wilberforce.:

https://blog.soton.ac.uk/slaveryand.../horatio-nelson-to-simon-taylor-10-june-1805/

he was on one side of the controversy of the day, not doing anything illegal. Just being wrong. Not quite like Robert E Lee, who was helping to lead the fight for the Confederates so that they could retain slavery.