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Nelson and his Column
- Thread starter The Rivet
- Start date
Theatre of Trees
Well-known member
It is hysterical becuase nowhere is she trying to extend the article to the things you are mentioning. You are creating a "straw man" which you then knock down. She is using Nelson's column as a metaphore for the things we admire and how she thinks we are mistaken and missing the things we really should admire.
Talking of spiritual homes, you've clearly found yours. Progressives like you are always welcome at the Grauniad.
nicko31
Well-known member
Was waiting for this thread. Bit OTT to rip it down. Though our need to teach more about our colonial past, it wasn't milk, honey and steam trains
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,855
I find that the article is typical of many hosted by the Guardian in recent years..... so rather than campaigning for a solution to the issue of redress regarding the missing memorials or recognition for 'others' in our history, the arguments are simply underpinning the reactionary ideology that may result simply in the destruction of alternative historical perspectives.
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We live in a democracy and the great thing about a democracy is the right and ability to express alternative view points. I don't ageee with one iota of what was written in this article but have no problem with the Guardian publishing it. However if one wanted to write an article suggesting we should build more statues to such historical figures 'the left' would 'horrified' 'appalled' and 'disgusted' calling the writer racist, fascist etc.
Defend democracy and free speech to the end and regardless of your own viewpoint. There is an insiduous momentum type movement that preaches free speech but only if they agree with what is being said. The extreme left and the extreme right are as each as dangerous as the other.
Defend democracy and free speech to the end and regardless of your own viewpoint. There is an insiduous momentum type movement that preaches free speech but only if they agree with what is being said. The extreme left and the extreme right are as each as dangerous as the other.
jakarta
Well-known member
Afua Hirsch is a writer, broadcaster, barrister and human rights development worker of Ghanaian, English and Jewish heritage
Well she would be, wouldn't she? The article is utterly futile but I have no doubt her Metropolitan buddies will **** themselves silly over its 'relevance'.
Well she would be, wouldn't she? The article is utterly futile but I have no doubt her Metropolitan buddies will **** themselves silly over its 'relevance'.
Afua Hirsch is a writer, broadcaster, barrister and human rights development worker of Ghanaian, English and Jewish heritage
Well she would be, wouldn't she? The article is utterly futile but I have no doubt her Metropolitan buddies will **** themselves silly over its 'relevance'.
Your reply wins you the Donald Trump award for stupididity, rudeness and angry prejudice. Well done !
That article is cut from the same cloth as most Katy Hopkins articles: say something outrageous and watch the page count fly up (and the ad revenue with it). You'd have to search hard to find people in favour of it.
Most European countries have some awful events in their colonial past but don't agree with pulling down statues.
Most European countries have some awful events in their colonial past but don't agree with pulling down statues.
I'm curious as to why so many people are quite so outraged by the suggestion that we ought to have a debate over it.
I'm not saying it should be pulled down on the whim of a yoghurt knitter, but change is usually a good thing. Isn't it about time women were recognised? We've lived with statues that are almost exclusively men for centuries - why are women so invisible? It's not healthy is it? And what about the fact that this country is made up of a large number of people who might well have been slaves back then - again, hard for them to respect a man who was hell bent on keeping the slavery industry running.
Finally, this whinge at "left wingers" seems wide of the mark, but par-for-the-course for some of NSC's biggest thickies. I'd bet there are many other people who would least like to discuss the subject without hastily being labelled something they're not.
I'm not saying it should be pulled down on the whim of a yoghurt knitter, but change is usually a good thing. Isn't it about time women were recognised? We've lived with statues that are almost exclusively men for centuries - why are women so invisible? It's not healthy is it? And what about the fact that this country is made up of a large number of people who might well have been slaves back then - again, hard for them to respect a man who was hell bent on keeping the slavery industry running.
Finally, this whinge at "left wingers" seems wide of the mark, but par-for-the-course for some of NSC's biggest thickies. I'd bet there are many other people who would least like to discuss the subject without hastily being labelled something they're not.
Afua Hirsch is a writer, broadcaster, barrister and human rights development worker of Ghanaian, English and Jewish heritage
Well she would be, wouldn't she? The article is utterly futile but I have no doubt her Metropolitan buddies will **** themselves silly over its 'relevance'.
You are truly, truly ignorant.
jakarta
Well-known member
You're very welcome. From your reply it appears you are related to Ned Flanders...
Grow up, for goodness sake!
Like the vast majority of historically significant figures, and indeed people in general, Nelson had a complex mix of attributes, some good, some less so. My view is that the statue should be left, but that when he's talked about in history classes in school, a balanced viewpoint of the man is taught: yes, he was a naval genius and was viewed as a hero as a consequence of winning many important battles, and he also had values that are unacceptable today (and were starting to be unacceptable even at the time).
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
A lot of statues have a military meaning or history. Women on the whole had the luxury of not having to fight in those wars.
When they did they got statues. Like Boudicca.
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
It's usually the columnists I disagree with most often that I turn to first. There's no point in simply having your own prejudices stroked.
That is indeed a fair point Tyrone, but centuries ago we were involved in wars every 5-10 years. Equally, we all know that it was rarely the people in statues who really put their arses on the line - it was the pressed men who had no choice.
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,855
Why does 'empire' and 'colonialism' always stop at the borders of western Europe..... Africa, the Middle East and Asia cornered the market in Empires and Slavery a long time before we started spreading our wings across the planet.
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Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
Indeed it's the rank and file who pay the ultimate price,
Queen Victoria and her hundreds of statues didn't fire a single shot in anger yet ruled over more people on the planet than anyone else had to that time.
I can't say when I look at statues I think about the person, I think damn that was a talented artist.
People who want to destroy art are certainly reminiscent of some unsavory groups throughout history. Vandals is what i'd call them.
I'd rather not destroy or remove such art, rather admire it.