[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

[Leekbrookgull]

It’s not a Corbyn issue. Behind him are the likes of McDonnell, some aggressive union leaders, and a whole new generation of hard left folk who despise capitalism, USA, NATO, plus a few with anti semitic views based on centuries old sterotyping about the Jewish conspiracy.

It boils down to solutions to our country’s problems. Personally I’d trust a coalition that sought to deal with them, whilst ensuring business prospered and the successful weren’t penalised with spite taxes. We seem to be going round in circles, but in the Scandinavian models pushed forward, almost everyone at every income level gives up half of their income in taxes. It’s an absolute lie, to win votes, that taxing the very wealthy more can change the UK.

West,be careful what you post for in as much 'it all boils down to solutions' for i believe another 'Worker's Party' also had a 'solution' for problems ?

 

[GT49er]

I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

Brexit might be. Their common cause to prevent it at all costs isn't.

 

[vegster]

It’s not a Corbyn issue. Behind him are the likes of McDonnell, some aggressive union leaders, and a whole new generation of hard left folk who despise capitalism, USA, NATO, plus a few with anti semitic views based on centuries old sterotyping about the Jewish conspiracy.

It boils down to solutions to our country’s problems. Personally I’d trust a coalition that sought to deal with them, whilst ensuring business prospered and the successful weren’t penalised with spite taxes. We seem to be going round in circles, but in the Scandinavian models pushed forward, almost everyone at every income level gives up half of their income in taxes. It’s an absolute lie, to win votes, that taxing the very wealthy more can change the UK.

Crikes ! where do we begin ? McDonnell sounds terrifying does he ? " Some " aggressive Union leaders ? Have a think, apart from the railways and the NHS there are hardly any unionised workers left. There is little chance of the Minimum Wage staff of Tesco, Asda and Sainsburys all striking together to cause a national emergency..... As for despising capitalism, I'm sure they would prefer a capitalism that worked better for them, you know May, Theresa: " Economy that works for everyone/ Burning injustices " speech. but lets gloss over that speech aberration, she was quickly told who runs the country..... Well Trump despises Nato but loves Russia ? and the Anti Semitism thing leaves me baffled as I don't see it myself day to day although Karl Marx's tomb ( Jewish by Birth ) was vandalised again the other day I read in the paper...


Right that's all for now as I can't field all these rambling accusations and i'm off to the pub imminently, tara !

 

[LlcoolJ]

Because they believe in modest corporate taxes and governments favouring enterprise.

Hardly a secret.

The free thinking UK electorate don’t want a hard left government. Let’s not patronise them because the minority who do, don’t get want they want.

Sentiment is correct. Tory government favouring enterprise and/or small businesses, totally incorrect. It's a lie.

Also "free thinking electorate". Hmm. Most people are close minded and thick as mince. Hence the "I vote Labour/Tory" mentality where they will never consider issues over party.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think you're being naive if you don't accept the press bias in this country. Some would say Blair got elected not because of his manifesto, or policy changes within the party, but that he did enough to get Murdoch to support him. They didn't even give a crap about press responsibility 'It was the Sun wot won it' headline should have come as a stark reminder of the infuence of the media, not a celebratory front page headline the morning after an election result in 1992.

It isn't even a question of which party the papers support, the question for a fair press is, why do they need to pick a side in the first place? Any notion if impartiality and objectively is non existent, not even a pretence of it.

I can give you an answer, because the majority of the press is owned by an Australian, a Russian Oligarch, a Viscount and a pair of brothers. There is no conspiracy as you say, other than a few very rich owners having a very tight grip over their readerships.

look at what you are saying about Blair and Murdoch, you acknowledge that Blair moved politics so far that Murdoch supported him. which is the point im making, the policy and manifesto comes first, influence after.
of course there is a bias in the press. why though? we have a free press, why are there not more news papers and media advancing a left wing agenda? is it because they are blocked, or because a lack of market? the press reflects the market any influence is pushing upon existing views.

 

[LlcoolJ]

look at what you are saying about Blair and Murdoch, you acknowledge that Blair moved politics so far that Murdoch supported him. which is the point im making, the policy and manifesto comes first, influence after.
of course there is a bias in the press. why though? we have a free press, why are there not more news papers and media advancing a left wing agenda? is it because they are blocked, or because a lack of market? the press reflects the market any influence is pushing upon existing views.

Most papers are sold to old people.

 

[Weststander]

Sentiment is correct. Tory government favouring enterprise and/or small businesses, totally incorrect. It's a lie.

Also "free thinking electorate". Hmm. Most people are close minded and thick as mince. Hence the "I vote Labour/Tory" mentality where they will never consider issues over party.

Taking the old Tory bit out of it, what did the government from 1997 to 2010 do about all those awful tax breaks for business? Brown and Darling also tried to strike a balance.

 

[Postman Pat]

Didn't take long.....

Derek Hatton, the controversial former deputy leader of*Liverpoolcouncil, has been suspended from the Labour party just two days after being allowed back in after 34 years.

The 71-year-old has been suspended pending an investigation into a tweet he posted in 2012 blaming Jews for Israeli government policy.

The tweet, which resurfaced after he*was readmitted*to the party on Monday, said: “Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!”

 

[LlcoolJ]

Taking the old Tory bit out of it, what did the government from 1997 to 2010 do about all those awful tax breaks for business? Brown and Darling also tried to strike a balance.

I'm saying the opposite...... The tax breaks that this government have provided to BIG businesses have been partially paid for by screwing small businesses. This is not a government that encourages entrepreneurs.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Didn't take long.....

Derek Hatton, the controversial former deputy leader of*Liverpoolcouncil, has been suspended from the Labour party just two days after being allowed back in after 34 years.

The 71-year-old has been suspended pending an investigation into a tweet he posted in 2012 blaming Jews for Israeli government policy.

The tweet, which resurfaced after he*was readmitted*to the party on Monday, said: “Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!”

If every I needed a reason to not only not campaign for Corbyn's labour party, but campaign against, this is it. The man is simply a dribbling moron to allow this to happen.

Kinnock banishing Degsy at the labour conference (85?) was a dynamite moment, and Corbyn wants to backtrack even on that. The man is an utter utter joke and disgrace.

I hope the independent group expands now. We need it. Tories and labour parties are both a joke, due to hopeless leadership and failed leader election processes. Plenty of decent MPs within both camps. Let them fly their nests of shit and coalesce.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I’ve mentioned before that IMO a JC/McDonnell government would, with their feet in the door, push policies not mentioned in their gentle (softly spoken by McDonnell), ‘Norwegian’ manifesto. Some NSC Labour supporters agreed about not trusting JC. Overriding this, the fiscal sums do not add up, taxing only the very wealthy will not pay for the promises. Away from finances, the support for then failure to condemn the Venezualan regime is dogmatic and poor.

Funny how people who can can see all the malign influences and ulterior motives in the dastardly Tory party and their backers are so sweetly naive about Corbyn's Labour party. Just fluffy, lovely social democrats don't you know (apart from the stated bringing down capitalism goal, siding with anyone who hates the west, political intimidation, bullying, chronic anti semitism, cheerleader for Venezuela, deselecting unbelievers purge etc)

 

[The Rivet]

Funny how people who can can see all the malign influences and ulterior motives in the dastardly Tory party and their backers are so sweetly naive about Corbyn's Labour party. Just fluffy, lovely social democrats don't you know (apart from the stated bringing down capitalism goal, siding with anyone who hates the west, political intimidation, bullying, chronic anti semitism, cheerleader for Venezuela, deselecting unbelievers purge etc)

JC there are a lot of deluded labour remainers in this area. All neatly reflected within views on this board and this thread. Hey ho at least BH Council is majority anything other than greens or labour!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Getting back to the point of the thread, I really can't see much mileage in this new independent group, they have no real coherent policies, no political infrastructure or support network and they are highly unlikely to get enough funding from " donors ". Add to that they only have until the next GE to remain in the House as most will be facing a replacement Labour or Tory candidate in their own seats who will beat them, one or two might survive, just, but they will be a fringe rabble rather than an effective mainstream group.

Is that your prediction or your hope? You may be predicting right, but I hope you're wrong.

Anyway, if it is your hope then that's sad.

I just read your other post that doesn't 'recognise' the racism (especially towards Jews) in labour. Well, plenty of people do recognise it and countless incidents are record. As is Corbyn's total lack of interest. He opposes 'all racism', don'cha know. Just because your group of labour chums (nice people I am sure) never say anything against Israel or Jews doesn't make your impression meaningful. I have had conversations with labour people close to me who, given enough time and provocation, end up fulminating about the Jews, how they stole Palestine, how Israel is an illegal occupation, how Jews stick together and run global finance.....you are a good paster and a kindly soul, but you need to wake up and smell the rotten stench of old labour. Support for Corbyn as his shitness becomes smellier will just drive people into the arms of mother Theresa. You don't want that, surely? I don't.

 

[Titanic]

Interesting that a few weeks back all 3 ex Tories voted they had confidence in the Tory government but now they slate it. Anyone would think that’s a tad hypocritical

And they would support them again tomorrow. A general election now would be the end of their political careers.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

JC there are a lot of deluded labour remainers in this area. All neatly reflected within views on this board and this thread. Hey ho at least BH Council is majority anything other than greens or labour!

To be fair many on the left are distancing themselves from the shambolic state of the opposition but I never realised that for some people stating you care about the most vulnerable or want a fairer society legitimises turning a blind eye to widespread antisemitism, bullying, intimidation, purges.

 

[pastafarian]

And they would support them again tomorrow. A general election now would be the end of their political careers.

 

[neilbard]

View attachment 104789

Typical Barrister...

 

[Weststander]

To be fair many on the left are distancing themselves from the shambolic state of the opposition but I never realised that for some people stating you care about the most vulnerable or want a fairer society legitimises turning a blind eye to widespread antisemitism, bullying, intimidation, purges.

Corbynistas used to beligerently post on NSC that anti semitism amongst Labour supporters was a lie. Even the leadership now admit it.

Incredible to think that the Labour Party contains racists, and the leadership resisted it’s uncovering.

The racist extremes, both left and right, of UK politics shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near power.

But glad it’s all out in the open. Right wing thugs attacking Jewish cemetries and Labour members abusing Jews/Jewry are one and the same, regardless of any false sense of moral superiority.

 

[Ernest]

[tweet]1098318064020525056[/tweet]

 

[Hampster Gull]

View attachment 104789

Our parliamentary democracy is clear, she is appointed to make her judgement on behalf of her constituents. Check it out. The referendum was consultative, and since then the Brexit government has failed to bring consensus or anything close. She has every constitutional right to make this call.