[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

[Sussex Nomad]

And it will be shrill, and ignoring it will be more-ish.

ps anyone who say all politicians are the same is either an anarchist (anti all politicians) or a liar (hoping a bit of mud will stick on whatever, if anything, emerges from the centre left) aka a committed blinkered party-loyal tory. Who would have known?

You were doing so well until you showed your colours.

 

[This is me]

Meanwhile 1/3 of Labour Councillors have been deselected or standing down in the forthcoming City elections. The Queens Park Councillor had death threats from her own side. Want a hard left Momentum loony council? Vote Labour.
Any sensible right minded person would vote elsewhere

 

[ManOfSussex]

Agreed, but Mrs Balls might if she leads the New Labour Party.

That's an outrageous, sexist comment that I'm really, really, really offended by, as will be, I'm sure, plenty of other people who had the similar horror of reading what you typed. She quite clearly identifies by her maiden name.

I'm reporting you to a moderator.

 

[Titanic]

That's an outrageous, sexist comment that I'm really, really, really offended by, as will be, I'm sure, plenty of other people who had the similar horror of reading what you typed. She quite clearly identifies by her maiden name.

I'm reporting you to a moderator.

Sorry, I didn't realise she was in the same camp as Lady Nugee.

Have you screamed for a policeman?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Sorry, I didn't realise she was in the same camp as Lady Nugee.

Have you screamed for a policeman?

Not yet. I'm still too outraged, traumatised and offended.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Labour got 40% of the vote at the last General Election, one of the highest in our history. We'd have won if Scottish Labour hadn't been so useless (advocating people vote Tory against the SNP for instance)
We have the biggest membership of any party in Europe. If there is a new style SDP that will split the vote and keep the Tories in for ever in the first past the post system, which is what some of you want, isn't it? Just be honest and stop trying to be all 'moderate' and 'reasonable'
It's ludicrous to say we have 'stolen' the party - the centrists borrowed it, we've got it back!
I do find the right wing bias on NSC amusing given that we have wiped the floor with the Tories in all the local seats and even my local East Worthing and Shoreham is now a marginal. I guess it's that old chestnut, 'age'. Never understood people becoming less radical as they get older, surely we should respond to what we see around us, and what I see is division, poverty, homelessness, complacency on one hand, misery on the other........

A lot of people voted Labour in the 2017 general election because Corbyn said, he voted Remain. By then, people were already beginning to see the Tories had no idea what they were actually doing, but it came as a shock to some people that he wasn't going to oppose it.
Even at the last Labour party conference, it was voted to campaign for a second vote on the EU, but they've reneged on that. Corbyn is enabling a right wing coup. He even went to talk to May without his Brexit secretary Keir Starmer, who is a decent bloke.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

A lot of people voted Labour in the 2017 general election because Corbyn said, he voted Remain. By then, people were already beginning to see the Tories had no idea what they were actually doing, but it came as a shock to some people that he wasn't going to oppose it.
Even at the last Labour party conference, it was voted to campaign for a second vote on the EU, but they've reneged on that. Corbyn is enabling a right wing coup. He even went to talk to May without his Brexit secretary Keir Starmer, who is a decent bloke.

Did he vote remain? Does anyone actually know? Is he pro or anti EU? Does anyone actually know? Does he have an EU policy? Does anyone actually know? In fact does he have any policies on anything, anywhere, or is he to busy disagreeing to be bothered with anything of substance?

 

[Bry Nylon]

we should respond to what we see around us, and what I see is division, poverty, homelessness, complacency on one hand, misery on the other........

****ing hell. If that was me, I'd move house.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Did he vote remain? Does anyone actually know? Is he pro or anti EU? Does anyone actually know? Does he have an EU policy? Does anyone actually know? In fact does he have any policies on anything, anywhere, or is he to busy disagreeing to be bothered with anything of substance?

My words were 'He said he voted Remain' Whether he did or not, nobody knows.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

My words were 'He said he voted Remain' Whether he did or not, nobody knows.

Precisely, nobody knows, he is just what we need as an alternative voice. I call on the lefties to tell me his policy on the EU and Brexit. Ernest? You seem to be a staunch red, what is his idea of a beautiful Brexit?

 

[larus]

We must have a country which has 40% plus of the population as thick and evil according to the left-wing posters on here. One thing I’ve noticed is that the left-wing seem to need to continually attack the moral character of voters who see a different way to run the country. That says more about them than those who vote Tory as they have to attack the person and not the argument.

You left-wing posters really need to wake-up and accept that the country is not left-wing. There has not been a ‘left-wing’ government since the 1970’s, so you’ve been out of power for 40 years. (Bliar was never really left-wing as generally accepted on here). The last Left-Wing general election win was in Oct 1974.

Regarding why do so many people become less radical as they get older - they grow up and see that there world is not some kind of utopia. It’s not perfect and they see the failure of many left-wing/communist countries around the world and realise that, even with the many issues with capitalism (which moderate conservative voters would readily accept), it is far better than communism/Marxism. Who’d want to live in N Korea, Russia, China, Venezuela?

And yes, why isn’t Corbyn/Labour streets ahead in the opinion polls? I would be viewed as a likely Tory voter and I think that May is disasterous (not just because of Brexit) and I would not be inclined to vote for her. But Corbyn leads a divided party, only leader due to the momentum members (i.e. the more extreme/vocal left-wingers) and they have tried to sit on the fence throughout the whole Brexit debacle but, IMO, this has shown them to be weak and playing party politics with the most important issue for a generation.
Incumbent parties are nearly always behind in the polls as they have to make decisions which invariably annoys one group or another. But even with this, and dealing with the after effects of austerity due to the financial crisis (which happened on Labours watch), Corbyn is still behind.

The traditional labour heartlands are better educated now and have better job opportunities than 40 years ago, so the influence/power of the unions has waned, so the guaranteed seats from the industrialised areas are shrinking. There are less manual jobs in heavy industry/coal mining etc. and more in services. More people go to university etc so have greater aspiration.

However, the Tories are not in a much better place, but this may come down to the continuing erosion of trust between the voters and the politicians. If Brexit is thwarted, there will be repercussions for this, as many on the left and right will no longer want to vote for the traditional parties where politicians think they can override the will of the people as expressed in a plebiscite.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Labour’s last hope was just before David Milliband had the rug pulled from under his feet by his gawky brother. Labour are currently unelectable and their only chance is to completely change tack.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The Tories could split too. I’d personally like 4 parties that cover right, centre right, centre left and left. We already have Green on the far left and UKIP on the far right. That would give the electorate a good choice and create coalition governments which I prefer.

 

[Giraffe]

They basically chose the wrong leader. Any credible Labour leader would walk the next election but Corbyn is a disaster, and so are most of his shadow cabinet. Just not electable.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

We must have a country which has 40% plus of the population as thick and evil according to the left-wing posters on here. One thing I’ve noticed is that the left-wing seem to need to continually attack the moral character of voters who see a different way to run the country. That says more about them than those who vote Tory as they have to attack the person and not the argument.

You left-wing posters really need to wake-up and accept that the country is not left-wing. There has not been a ‘left-wing’ government since the 1970’s, so you’ve been out of power for 40 years. (Bliar was never really left-wing as generally accepted on here). The last Left-Wing general election win was in Oct 1974.

Regarding why do so many people become less radical as they get older - they grow up and see that there world is not some kind of utopia. It’s not perfect and they see the failure of many left-wing/communist countries around the world and realise that, even with the many issues with capitalism (which moderate conservative voters would readily accept), it is far better than communism/Marxism. Who’d want to live in N Korea, Russia, China, Venezuela?

And yes, why isn’t Corbyn/Labour streets ahead in the opinion polls? I would be viewed as a likely Tory voter and I think that May is disasterous (not just because of Brexit) and I would not be inclined to vote for her. But Corbyn leads a divided party, only leader due to the momentum members (i.e. the more extreme/vocal left-wingers) and they have tried to sit on the fence throughout the whole Brexit debacle but, IMO, this has shown them to be weak and playing party politics with the most important issue for a generation.
Incumbent parties are nearly always behind in the polls as they have to make decisions which invariably annoys one group or another. But even with this, and dealing with the after effects of austerity due to the financial crisis (which happened on Labours watch), Corbyn is still behind.

The traditional labour heartlands are better educated now and have better job opportunities than 40 years ago, so the influence/power of the unions has waned, so the guaranteed seats from the industrialised areas are shrinking. There are less manual jobs in heavy industry/coal mining etc. and more in services. More people go to university etc so have greater aspiration.

However, the Tories are not in a much better place, but this may come down to the continuing erosion of trust between the voters and the politicians. If Brexit is thwarted, there will be repercussions for this, as many on the left and right will no longer want to vote for the traditional parties where politicians think they can override the will of the people as expressed in a plebiscite.

I think Brexit has, if nothing else, made the whole country, reds and blues, totally bored, tired and disbelieving of these 650 idiots that sit in the Palace of Westminster pretending to vote for those that elect them. I think most people, if they didn't see before, have realised what an incompetent, lying bunch of treacherous oxygen thieves they really are.

 

[Southern Scouse]

Problem with Labour is that their silent majority, that includes me, simply could not vote for a party with JC as leader, and as long as he remains leader, the party spends most of its time trying to put on a brave front, while being ineffective.
I’m not sure when the last time was that both HM government and the opposition have both been so pathetically inept at the same time. I would love to see a new central party, made up of some decent MP,s from all sides, lead by that Wollaston lady or similar who genuinely wanted the good of the country before anything else.
I am a strong remainer and would say that to all the leavers, have you never ever made a mistake and changed your mind on receiving information you were unaware off? It takes a strong person to evaluate and change their position.
Something I’d also like 5he Labour Party to consider if they really ever want to be considered as a realistic alternative in the future.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I’m not sure when the last time was that both HM government and the opposition have both been so pathetically inept at the same time.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[kemptown kid]

Problem with Labour is that their silent majority, that includes me, simply could not vote for a party with JC as leader, and as long as he remains leader, the party spends most of its time trying to put on a brave front, while being ineffective.
I’m not sure when the last time was that both HM government and the opposition have both been so pathetically inept at the same time. I would love to see a new central party, made up of some decent MP,s from all sides, lead by that Wollaston lady or similar who genuinely wanted the good of the country before anything else.
I am a strong remainer and would say that to all the leavers, have you never ever made a mistake and changed your mind on receiving information you were unaware off? It takes a strong person to evaluate and change their position.
Something I’d also like 5he Labour Party to consider if they really ever want to be considered as a realistic alternative in the future.

40 % of those who voted in 2017 election did vote for a Labour Party led by the demonized and derided Jeremy Cornyn, standing on a distinctively left of centre manifesto. Rather than lazy labelling (extreme, far left, loony etc), could anti Labour/Cornyn porters tell us which Labour policies they disagree with?

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

The Tories could split too. I’d personally like 4 parties that cover right, centre right, centre left and left. We already have Green on the far left and UKIP on the far right. That would give the electorate a good choice and create coalition governments which I prefer.

The Tories hate each other but will do almost anything to hang on to power. The two aims of the Tories are to look after the Establishment and to be in power so as to achieve that.

The problem with breaking away from a party (as the SDP proved) is that you break away from the party apparatus and infrastructure. And if you stand against Labour in northern constituencies where the party is deep in the bedrock of the place, you have very little chance.

 

[kemptown kid]

40 % of those who voted in 2017 election did vote for a Labour Party led by the demonized and derided Jeremy Cornyn, standing on a distinctively left of centre manifesto. Rather than lazy labelling (extreme, far left, loony etc), could anti Labour/Cornyn porters tell us which Labour policies they disagree with?

Corbyn - auto correct clearly Tory...