[Football] Mounie red card..(Hudds lodge - and lose - appeal)

[drew]

I, too, have been watching football for 40+ years.

I agree, both this season were technically reds. I also don't think Stephens should have been sent off against 'boro because the gash was caused by Ramirez kicking and his shin striking the bottom of Stephen's boot. If a player throws his head at someone's elbow, it is their own fault, so to speak.

The dirty tackles of the 70s and 80s needed to be eradicated, and have.

However, penalties are now awarded if there's a clean tackle, where the ball is won, but the player is taken off his feet.

My general point is that the sanitising of the game has made for many more cards, players being banned for long periods, for quite frankly what reason?

Stephens and Mounie will each miss 3 games - completely out of proportion to what they've done.

So if a player dangerously and recklessly flies in and in one case takes out the knee of the opponent it's a red card but if with the exact same tackle but this time the opponent just jumps out of the way just in time it's not! In both cases, the action of the player making the tackle is exactly the same. Bit like saying you don't charge someone with drink driving unless they actually hit something!! It's nonsensical.

 

[Murray 17]

I do - I think he was snidely trying to leave a bit on Bissouma but got spotted.

OK, fair enough.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So if a player dangerously and recklessly flies in and in one case takes out the knee of the opponent it's a red card but if with the exact same tackle but this time the opponent just jumps out of the way just in time it's not! In both cases, the action of the player making the tackle is exactly the same. Bit like saying you don't charge someone with drink driving unless they actually hit something!! It's nonsensical.

Exactly.

 

[Murray 17]

So if a player dangerously and recklessly flies in and in one case takes out the knee of the opponent it's a red card but if with the exact same tackle but this time the opponent just jumps out of the way just in time it's not! In both cases, the action of the player making the tackle is exactly the same. Bit like saying you don't charge someone with drink driving unless they actually hit something!! It's nonsensical.

So you think Mounie's tackle, and Stephen's tackle were dangerous? Obviously you do. I don't.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

OK, so this 'intent' thing... I struggle to see how intent is taken away, both in theory and in practice. Take two stamping incidents of recent vintage, Hemed on the Newcastle player and Barton on Kayal. In bioh cases, if the player intentionally stamped on the guy on the ground, red card all day long. But if he didn't mean it, he just landed awkwardly, I don't think anyone would want a card. Surely in those instances the referee is having to judge intent to determine whether to punish the player?

No. The ref doesn’t judge intent. The ref judges the incident with the criteria stated in the laws.

 

[drew]

So you think Mounie's tackle, and Stephen's tackle were dangerous? Obviously you do. I don't.

I do but that's not what you were arguing. You were saying the outcome should be taken into account where as I'm saying it is irrelevant.

 

[drew]

OK, so this 'intent' thing... I struggle to see how intent is taken away, both in theory and in practice. Take two stamping incidents of recent vintage, Hemed on the Newcastle player and Barton on Kayal. In bioh cases, if the player intentionally stamped on the guy on the ground, red card all day long. But if he didn't mean it, he just landed awkwardly, I don't think anyone would want a card. Surely in those instances the referee is having to judge intent to determine whether to punish the player?

A stamp on someone's leg is different to stepping on it.

 

[Weststander]

So you think Mounie's tackle, and Stephen's tackle were dangerous? Obviously you do. I don't.

“SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.”

It doesn’t mean that the player’s life is endanagered, just that their lunge was of excessive force or brutality. Mounie’s no where near the ball lunge at Bissouma’s knee/shin was excessive.

 

[Ecosse Exile]

When talking of tackles from days gone by, i always remember Jimmy Case against Ray Wilkins in the 83 cup final, Case clattered into Wilkins so hard that he spun him round 360°, not even a yellow card, today its a straight red and rightly so. Likewise that dirty ******* Norman Whiteside on Chris Ramsey in the replay, would have been a different game if that was a red card.

In my opinion, both Case and Whiteside wouldn't have made those challenges if they had been with todays rules, both could have been career wreckers, sadly for Ramsey it more or less was. My point being that we are better off with the new rules, even if sometimes it seems to be a harsh red card.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

There have been several comments like that on this thread. There are loads of softer reds, sometimes a player goes down and there's been no contact whatsoever. People either have very poor memory or they don't take it in in the first place.

One of those was mine. Actually, I take it back. The one for the Watford player against Leicester was even softer

 

[Papa Lazarou]

When talking of tackles from days gone by, i always remember Jimmy Case against Ray Wilkins in the 83 cup final, Case clattered into Wilkins so hard that he spun him round 360°, not even a yellow card, today its a straight red and rightly so. Likewise that dirty ******* Norman Whiteside on Chris Ramsey in the replay, would have been a different game if that was a red card.

In my opinion, both Case and Whiteside wouldn't have made those challenges if they had been with todays rules, both could have been career wreckers, sadly for Ramsey it more or less was. My point being that we are better off with the new rules, even if sometimes it seems to be a harsh red card.

That was the first game. Ramsey was still limping when they scored the equaliser and had to be replaced by Gerry Ryan a few minutes later.

The final might have been very different if Ramsey hadn't been crocked, as he was marking Stapleton at the time.

 

[Weststander]

When talking of tackles from days gone by, i always remember Jimmy Case against Ray Wilkins in the 83 cup final, Case clattered into Wilkins so hard that he spun him round 360°, not even a yellow card, today its a straight red and rightly so. Likewise that dirty ******* Norman Whiteside on Chris Ramsey in the replay, would have been a different game if that was a red card.

In my opinion, both Case and Whiteside wouldn't have made those challenges if they had been with todays rules, both could have been career wreckers, sadly for Ramsey it more or less was. My point being that we are better off with the new rules, even if sometimes it seems to be a harsh red card.

Case, Horton, Whiteside could also play brilliantly, they would’ve succeeded in any era within whatever the rules were.

Vinny Jones, John Fashanu and Henry Hughton would have lost the key, snidey element of their game.

 

[Arkwright]

Bit late to join the thread and haven't read all the posts. At the time I thought yesterday was a red card as the player didn't touch the ball and seemed to leave himself in the tackle and high.
At the time I didn't think Stephens was a red card as he won the first tackle and was committed to the second challenge which he also won with his momentum he caught the Cardiff player but both players went in hard for a 50/50 ball, you are always going to get contact with this sort of tackle.
I think the Huddersfield player knew what he was doing and they didn't seem to argue over the decision.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I can’t believe this is still rumbling on. It’s clear as day from the laws it’s a red. Two former refs have eloquently and concisely explained why it’s a red. What more is there to discuss?

 

[Triggaaar]

I can’t believe this is still rumbling on. It’s clear as day from the laws it’s a red. Two former refs have eloquently and concisely explained why it’s a red. What more is there to discuss?

Well this is NSC.

 

[TSB]

How on earth did this stretch to 18 pages?

Studs up challenge, nowhere near the ball and caught Bissouma ABOVE the shin pad?

99/100 times it's a straight red.

Charlie Nicholas is a moron.

 

[Machiavelli]

How on earth did this stretch to 18 pages?

Studs up challenge, nowhere near the ball and caught Bissouma ABOVE the shin pad?

99/100 times it's a straight red.

Charlie Nicholas is a moron.

All of these sentences are good, but one is better than the others.

 

[Ecosse Exile]

That was the first game. Ramsey was still limping when they scored the equaliser and had to be replaced by Gerry Ryan a few minutes later.

The final might have been very different if Ramsey hadn't been crocked, as he was marking Stapleton at the time.

You are of course correct, i knew there was a reason why i thought we would have won if Ramsey hadn't been taken out haha

 

[LamieRobertson]

Bit of rage and cool

 

[Weststander]

Bit of rage and cool


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He seems to model his image on his idol Jurgen, but a relative micro version. My favourite Wagner moment is still the handbags with Garry Monk.