[Football] Mounie red card..(Hudds lodge - and lose - appeal)

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's a shame that Stephens and Mounie where sent off for the sake of a good game, but until the rules are changed we will see many more sides going down to 10 men.

Maybe the players would adhere to the rules? Far simpler.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

My favourite part of the red card(well apart from the fact it allowed us to dominate the game) was it allowed Wagner to do his best Mark Hughes impression. I'm not sure why but I really don't like him so it was lovely to hear his incredibly bitter and wrong post match comments:

Having his player sent off makes football no fun.

I don't want to talk to the ref but I'll happily talk about him in the national media.

Pritchard should have hada penalty and a red card for the 'foul'

Balogun should have been a red.

What a nobber!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Chris Foy’s view kind of closes it doesn’t it ?

It does. Or a reading of the laws closes it.

 

[Murray 17]

Graham Poll emphatically cleared up the subject on intent last year:

“Fifteen years ago it wouldn't have been a red card offence because it used to be that it had to be intentional. But now that's taken away.

“You've made the intent by leaving your foot that high and so you have to live with the consequences.

“Apart from handball, any other offence in terms of intent has been taken out.

“It's actually the offence you do, rather than what you mean to do”.

That's very interesting to know, and as you say, makes it much clearer.

 

[Triggaaar]

An opinion, obviously.

I was very vocal about Stephens’ pathetic red the other day. Most on here agreed but some started quoting all the dangerous shite...

I appreciate the rules are a bit different too BUT...

Their guy goes in to win the ball, studs are up and catches Bissman, but not full on. I just find it hard to justify that as a red. It’s dangerous play when 2 players go up for the same ball full blooded in the air.

I feel that the way he 'went for the ball' was a bit odd, like he was trying to stamp on the ball. In the position the two players and ball was in, going in like Mounie did didn't look natural, he looked like he was being a bit naughty. Had Balagon been trying to blast it, he'd have smashed his shin against Mounie's studs. In the end Mounie didn't straighten his leg and leave it all in there, but it's still not a smart way to go for a ball.

 

[Murray 17]

Maybe the players would adhere to the rules? Far simpler.

I hear what you're saying, but I guess people who've been watching football for years have seen it change in a way they don't like. Mounie's challenge was technically a red, but Bissouma was fit to continue, and I can see why Hudds fans are disappointed (like we were with Stephens).

Maybe fans should sit on the rule-making committees, and express their views that they want to see 11 v 11, and come up with a way of dealing with such challenges that doesn't involve a 3 match ban.

I remember when a red was introduced for a professional foul, and thought then that a booking would be enough if a penalty was awarded. Just common sense to keep the game interesting for the paying spectators.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Definite red for me. I would also argue that there was intent (even though that does not come into any more). He was certainly not trying to play the ball, so what was he intending to do by keeping his foot up like that? Taking Bissouma out is the only answer. Great decision by the ref.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I hear what you're saying, but I guess people who've been watching football for years have seen it change in a way they don't like. Mounie's challenge was technically a red, but Bissouma was fit to continue, and I can see why Hudds fans are disappointed (like we were with Stephens).

Maybe fans should sit on the rule-making committees, and express their views that they want to see 11 v 11, and come up with a way of dealing with such challenges that doesn't involve a 3 match ban.

I remember when a red was introduced for a professional foul, and thought then that a booking would be enough if a penalty was awarded. Just common sense to keep the game interesting for the paying spectators.

Are you seriously suggesting we judge the severity of a tackle on whether the player is fit to continue?

Jesus. Personally, I want to move away from the football of years gone by where the brute strength, or how hard they are, is seemingly the main attribute of a player.

 

[Weststander]

Definite red for me. I would also argue that there was intent (even though that does not come into any more). He was certainly not trying to play the ball, so what was he intending to do by keeping his foot up like that? Taking Bissouma out is the only answer. Great decision by the ref.

Nailed all issues. Thanks.

 

[drew]

I hear what you're saying, but I guess people who've been watching football for years have seen it change in a way they don't like. Mounie's challenge was technically a red, but Bissouma was fit to continue, and I can see why Hudds fans are disappointed (like we were with Stephens).

Maybe fans should sit on the rule-making committees, and express their views that they want to see 11 v 11, and come up with a way of dealing with such challenges that doesn't involve a 3 match ban.

I remember when a red was introduced for a professional foul, and thought then that a booking would be enough if a penalty was awarded. Just common sense to keep the game interesting for the paying spectators.

Been watching for 40 years and I think that the game has progressed by getting these sort of challenges penalised with a red card. I thought it was a definite red, as I did with Stephens against Cardiff. I thought Mike Dean was the only one who used injury to determine the punishment (for what it's worth I didn't think Stephens should have been sent off at Middlesbrough).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Been watching for 40 years and I think that the game has progressed by getting these sort of challenges penalised with a red card. I thought it was a definite red, as I did with Stephens against Cardiff. I thought Mike Dean was the only one who used injury to determine the punishment (for what it's worth I didn't think Stephens should have been sent off at Middlesbrough).

This.

 

[dazzer6666]

Interesting watching some of the previous Liverpool/Everton ‘incidents’ earlier in the build up to today’s game. Now they were some proper red cards !

 

[Bwian]

View attachment 102519

Can somebody send this to that cuntishcunt on Twitter? He'll spontaneously combust with rage.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting watching some of the previous Liverpool/Everton ‘incidents’ earlier in the build up to today’s game. Now they were some proper red cards !

Let me guess, Graeme Souness?

 

[dazzer6666]

Let me guess, Graeme Souness?

Possibly [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Coupe of crackers from Gerrard and Owen as well. Plus a
punch up involving the Liverpool keeper. Marvellous scenes. [emoji16]

 

[Icy Gull]

Interesting watching some of the previous Liverpool/Everton ‘incidents’ earlier in the build up to today’s game. Now they were some proper red cards !

I hope they showed this chap, amongst the hardest tackling players I have ever seen. He looks like he could have walked a roll in Peaky Blinders if he was around now

https://www.lfchistory.net/Articles/Article/2420/2

 

[Murray 17]

Are you seriously suggesting we judge the severity of a tackle on whether the player is fit to continue?

Jesus. Personally, I want to move away from the football of years gone by where the brute strength, or how hard they are, is seemingly the main attribute of a player.

I think the player's condition after the tackle is part of the consideration, yes.

I think Mounie, if anything, was probably trying to ease up or even pull back from the tackle. I don't think anyone on here has suggested he was trying to injure Bissouma.

Like you, I think it was technically a red, but Mounie will now get a 3 game ban, the same as if he had broken Bissouma's leg.

If you think they are both punishable in the same way, then ...

 

[dazzer6666]

I think the player's condition after the tackle is part of the consideration, yes.

I think Mounie, if anything, was probably trying to ease up or even pull back from the tackle. I don't think anyone on here has suggested he was trying to injure Bissouma.

Like you, I think it was technically a red, but Mounie will now get a 3 game ban, the same as if he had broken Bissouma's leg.

If you think they are both punishable in the same way, then ...

I do - I think he was snidely trying to leave a bit on Bissouma but got spotted.

 

[Murray 17]

Been watching for 40 years and I think that the game has progressed by getting these sort of challenges penalised with a red card. I thought it was a definite red, as I did with Stephens against Cardiff. I thought Mike Dean was the only one who used injury to determine the punishment (for what it's worth I didn't think Stephens should have been sent off at Middlesbrough).

I, too, have been watching football for 40+ years.

I agree, both this season were technically reds. I also don't think Stephens should have been sent off against 'boro because the gash was caused by Ramirez kicking and his shin striking the bottom of Stephen's boot. If a player throws his head at someone's elbow, it is their own fault, so to speak.

The dirty tackles of the 70s and 80s needed to be eradicated, and have.

However, penalties are now awarded if there's a clean tackle, where the ball is won, but the player is taken off his feet.

My general point is that the sanitising of the game has made for many more cards, players being banned for long periods, for quite frankly what reason?

Stephens and Mounie will each miss 3 games - completely out of proportion to what they've done.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Graham Poll emphatically cleared up the subject on intent last year:

“Fifteen years ago it wouldn't have been a red card offence because it used to be that it had to be intentional. But now that's taken away.

“You've made the intent by leaving your foot that high and so you have to live with the consequences.

“Apart from handball, any other offence in terms of intent has been taken out.

“It's actually the offence you do, rather than what you mean to do”.

OK, so this 'intent' thing... I struggle to see how intent is taken away, both in theory and in practice. Take two stamping incidents of recent vintage, Hemed on the Newcastle player and Barton on Kayal. In bioh cases, if the player intentionally stamped on the guy on the ground, red card all day long. But if he didn't mean it, he just landed awkwardly, I don't think anyone would want a card. Surely in those instances the referee is having to judge intent to determine whether to punish the player?