[Football] Millwall fans covering themselves in glory again

[mikeyjh]

He must have changed since he left us then.

Most of us change between being 19 and 34 right? I mean, he's nearly 2x as old! Only an idiot would judge him on how he behaved at 19 (I'm not suggesting you are BTW).

 

[clapham_gull]

See below from the New York post back in 2015 -

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.



While promoting her book “When They Call You a Terrorist: A Black Lives Matter Memoir” in 2018, Cullors described her introduction to and support for Marxist ideology.

She described to Democracy Now! how she became a trained organizer with the Labor/Community Strategy Center, which she called her “first political home” under the mentorship of Mann, its director, Breitbart reported.

The center, which describes its philosophy as “an urban experiment,” uses grassroots organization to “focus on Black and Latino communities with deep historical ties to the long history of anti-colonial, anti-imperialist, pro-communist resistance to the US empire,” according to the outlet.

It also expresses its appreciation for the work of the US Communist Party, “especially Black communists,” as well as its support for “the great work of the Black Panther Party, the American Indian Movement, Young Lords, Brown Berets, and the great revolutionary rainbow experiments of the 1970s,” Breitbart reported.




Eric Mann
Eric Mann
Ken Lubas/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images
In 1968, Mann was a coordinator for Students for a Democratic Society, from which a more radical wing –- the Weather Underground — was splintered the following year.

It was led by Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, who called for “direct action” over civil disobedience, seeking the overthrow of the US government. In 1969, the FBI classified the group as a domestic terror organization.

Mann was eventually charged with assault and battery, disturbing the peace, damaging property, defacing a building and disturbing a public assembly, for which he spent 18 months behind bars.

Yes but you are clearly confusing an organisation (under the same name) and an anti racist statement.

The political persuasion of that organisation is irrelevant and is simply being used as shield by racists to continue business as usual.

As if those booing even understand what Marxism is.


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[darkwolf666]

From the outside looking in you have obviously upset him, but please carry on if it makes you happy.

Yes, it appears I have upset him, which was never my intention, and for that I apologise.

I just said I thought it was whataboutery to compare one person booing at a Brighton friendly, compared to mass booing at Millwall, a club well known for racist fans, on a day when fans were "welcomed" back to the game en masse...

Yes, it may be a generalisation, like all Germans are hard working, and all Republicans are racist thickies, unfortunately in life the worst components of any sum are always what are noticed and the sum judged by.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Yes, it appears I have upset him, which was never my intention, and for that I apologise.

But you made your point and kept going at him, that’s why I commented.

 

[darkwolf666]

But you made your point and kept going at him, that’s why I commented.

Woah there Trigger, he accused me of libel, so I feel I had a right to defend myself I only responded to his posts until others joined in, so it wasn't like some sort of witch hunt!

I don't like being accused of libel and to be honest would appreciate that comment being retracted...

 

[Smirko]

This will get more and more prevalent as fans return to stadiums. Taking the knee will be over in a few weeks, would have ended much sooner if fans were still in stadiums, only gone on for so long due to lack of fans.

Would also be interested to know if other leagues in Europe took or are still taking the knee, Italy, Spain, France etc, or is it just the PL?

 

[Sorrel]

I would categorise (the American) BLM movement as an inheriting the radical traditions that started America down the route of separatism from Britain long ago, mixed with a big dose of evangelical furore.

At it's heart is the Christian message of care for those without power, rather than socialism - though of course I wouldn't disagree that many of its leading figures are probably socialist in outlook (but then community socialism is fairly close to the radical Christian community outlook).

In the England - where these traditions are not nearly so strong - the organisation has registered (https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news...unity-benefit-society-after-raising-1-2m.html) but hasn't managed to get a website up, even though there has been a large set of donations to them. Some might worry where that money was going, but I'm sure there are investigative people who will find out.

I would argue that the actions of someone like Marcus Rashford fit much better in the English way of doing things: charity, but not an evangelical movement for change. But the players are now stuck doing the symbol and I can't see how they can get out of it (especially after Millwall re-politicised it today), so I think it's here to stay for a several years.

 

[Live by the sea]

Yes but you are clearly confusing an organisation (under the same name) and an anti racist statement.

The political persuasion of that organisation is irrelevant and is simply being used as shield by racists to continue business as usual.

As if those booing even understand what Marxism is.


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I agree the message of racism is very important but clearly this message is being undermined by the political way in which BLM is run as an organisation. So yes it is important as it takes something away from its core message .

 

[WATFORD zero]

It’s started to lose its meaning now, players are half kneeling whilst laughing and giggling with their team mates. I get it’s a symbolic gesture that will go down in football history as part of a movement but next time you can, really watch what the players do when they take a knee.

Now this is an interesting post, because I haven't seen anyone laughing and giggling whilst taking the knee.

Now I am a bit older and this may well have passed me by, but surely, there must be examples of this, given the way every little thing in the PL is discussed down to the finest microbe. Maybe you could give me some links to examples I have missed ? (Although, I do admit, I have only paid real attention to the Albion, who have always looked deadly serious).

There must be lots of examples out there, because I would imagine those horrible racist channels would be all over something like that.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that you would have the slightest intent to back or justify anything in the least bit racist, but you would think those nasty racists would have posted evidence all over the Internet, wouldn't you ?

 

[Motogull]

Keep the knee taking all the time Hodgson is the wankpuffins' manager because sooner or later, he's gonna get stuck doing it

 

[Giraffe]

I don’t agree with the booing but I’m not surprised.

People have had enough of being preached to and this has run its cause. Players are told to do it across the board, which means it means less. I’d let those that want to continue to do so but there shouldn’t be an ultimatum to all clubs.

Like the NHS clapping it has served its purposes.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Woah there Trigger, he accused me of libel, so I feel I had a right to defend myself I only responded to his posts until others joined in, so it wasn't like some sort of witch hunt!

I don't like being accused of libel and to be honest would appreciate that comment being retracted...

Ok then, let’s explain it another way.
He said he wasn’t defending the Millwall fans, but you didn’t leave it there.

 

[Weststander]

I don’t agree with the booing but I’m not surprised.

People have had enough of being preached to and this has run its cause. Players are told to do it across the board, which means it means less. I’d let those that want to continue to do so but there shouldn’t be an ultimatum to all clubs.

Like the NHS clapping it has served its purposes.

This. Less is more.

Les Ferdinand called this months ago, from a QPR perspective. Then faced a backlash, including from people who’d never faced racism.

Hopefully new campaign methods are employed to keep the spirit alive.

 

[Creaky]

I don’t agree with the booing but I’m not surprised.

People have had enough of being preached to and this has run its cause. Players are told to do it across the board, which means it means less. I’d let those that want to continue to do so but there shouldn’t be an ultimatum to all clubs.

Like the NHS clapping it has served its purposes.

I tend to agree - I’m of an age that remembers going to the cinema and standing after the main feature for the National Anthem. Over the years fewer and fewer people remained and it got to the point where the vast majority just walked out whilst the anthem was playing. This wasn’t because they were specifically wishing to insult the anthem or had republican tendencies, simply that it no longer meant anything.

The first few times I saw teams ‘take the knee’ was very poignant and made me think of the hurt racism in our society causes - now it’s just another ritual.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I would categorise (the American) BLM movement as an inheriting the radical traditions that started America down the route of separatism from Britain long ago, mixed with a big dose of evangelical furore.

At it's heart is the Christian message of care for those without power, rather than socialism - though of course I wouldn't disagree that many of its leading figures are probably socialist in outlook (but then community socialism is fairly close to the radical Christian community outlook).

The American BLM is anything but Christian. They are radical left wingers. They care more about transgender issues than the single parent issue in the US.

As this prominent sports host points out they want to destroy the "patriarchal" nuclear family model. The total opposite of any Christian view on the family unit.

 

[tigertim68]

I don’t agree with the booing but I’m not surprised.

People have had enough of being preached to and this has run its cause. Players are told to do it across the board, which means it means less. I’d let those that want to continue to do so but there shouldn’t be an ultimatum to all clubs.

Like the NHS clapping it has served its purposes.

I agree

 

[Randy McNob]

I think it’s very unfortunate that the Black Lives Matter organisation is now tarnished with accusations of anti Semitic language and some of its leaders seem to have encouraged looting etc . The message is an important one but it is being undermined by the BLM organisation.

I did say all along , this important message of racism should have been aligned with a non political movement not a Marxist type one .

Doesn’t excuse booing though .

You need to stop listening to Farage and other racists

 

[Creaky]

The American BLM is anything but Christian. They are radical left wingers. They care more about transgender issues than the single parent issue in the US.

As this prominent sports host points out they want to destroy the "patriarchal" nuclear family model. The total opposite of any Christian view on the family unit.

Prominent on Fox News

 

[Brighton Rocker]

Embarrassed

It is easy for none football fans to view all fans as racist due to the actions of a few.
I believe we should fight all forms of prejudice.
If the players want to make a statement, I think we should respect it.
I will not be booing on Monday night and will be ashamed of being a football supporter if any do.

 

[darkwolf666]

Ok then, let’s explain it another way.
He said he wasn’t defending the Millwall fans, but you didn’t leave it there.

Er, no, he came straight in with his comment about me making a libelous statement. Clearly DS has let it lie, maybe we should too.

I would still like the libel retraction, though I'm not holding my breath...