[Albion] Midfield goal production and the striker myth

[Rugrat]

Give all the strikers and midfield players some of these, job's a goodun...

View attachment 134330

Typical undermining of an intelligent thread.

In my day half an orange and a B&H Gold was the fare of all the best strikers, that's where we've gone wrong

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Typical undermining of an intelligent thread.

In my day half an orange and a B&H Gold was the fare of all the best strikers, that's where we've gone wrong

Always turned up in some flash but clapped out motor like a Ford Capri. Always in the changing room late, always asking who has some deep heat, spare pads, who’s got tape...shocking work rate in the game, everyone else’s fault for their misses. I never played with a striker I actually liked. Flash twats.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

This has been an issue for a number of seasons. People used to chastise Stephens and Propper for their lack of goals but Bissouma hasn't offered an improvement.

That's not the role he is playing. He plays deep.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

That's not the role he is playing. He plays deep.

Let’s not excuse anyone.

We’ve had so much possession against Palace and West Brom, Dunk and White were covering any kind of holding midfielder role. Bissouma has been presented with some really good chances around the box and really only endangered wildlife in the empty stands. His role arriving late and picking up 2nd ball around the box is to threaten the target occasionally?

 

[Weststander]

That's not the role he is playing. He plays deep.

He has a free-er role than that.

Proven by a couple of shots to row z every game from 25 yards out, ruining attacks.

Fitting of a rugby union place kicker.

 

[albionalex]

That's not the role he is playing. He plays deep.

I agree that it shouldn't be on the likes of Stephens, Propper and Bissouma to chip in with a lot of goals; that's not why they're in the team. But I think they should score more goals than they do and Bissouma in particular has a pathetic shooting accuracy (worst in the league of eligible players).

 

[Wardy's twin]

This very much backs up the overall impression most of us have that it is up front where we have most under performed

The midfielders finishing has been poor, but they have a dual role. In most matches they are winning the midfield battle, so they are doing one out of two.

Our strikers have neither been scoring or particularly contributing to the team in other areas

also shows Welbeck is not the upgrade on Connolly everyone thinks he is.

 

[raymondo]

Lots of moaning about the strikers and lack of competent strikers.

Its quite interesting. Brighton strikers so far scored 11 goals (Maupay 7, Connolly 2, Welbeck 2).

That is one more goal than West Ham in 4th place.

The midfielders scored 7 goals so far.

That is 13 less than West Hams 20 (Soucek 8, Bowen 5, Lingard 3, Fornals 2, Lanzini 1, Rice 1).

Leicester strikers scored 14 goals (Vardy 12, Perez 1, Iheanacho 1). Better than the Brighton strikers? Yes, 3 more. Does 3 more take you to the Champions League?

No. Midfield goal production does.

I repeat: the Brighton midfielders scored 7 goals. Leicesters midfielders: 24 (Barnes 9, Maddison 8, Tielemans 5, Praet 1, Ndidi 1).

I've said this about twenty times on the board already, always getting the reply "... but its the strikers job to score, Clough said so in the 70s"). Fair enough. But fact remains - goal production from midfielders are very important if you want to win games, and the major difference between Brighton and the top teams. The handful more goals produced by their strikers got very limited impact compared to the ca 15 goals more that the midfielders of (pretty much every) other team scored.

Conclusion : most people on this thread are saying our strikers have been crap at converting their chances. Swansman is pointing out that, actually, our midfield have been crap at scoring. Also, given the number of corners we get, our tall defenders are also crap at scoring. Collectively, we are saying that...well we are just crap at scoring all over the pitch (apart from Sanchez who's yet to miss a chance).
I don't know who to blame...but collectively I think it's a mix of recruitment, coaching, lack of quality/discipline/composure, luck, plus the occasional sh*te referee.
But... I think we'll improve.

 

[NooBHA]

My head is spinning with all those numbers and stats.

It's easy to pull stats to suit an Agenda but nut very wise to choose two Clubs punching above their weight in and around the Champions League places.

Brighton will be just about fine. Not by much but they will have enough to keep 3 or 4 teams below them. That's all that matters.

Just enjoy the remainder of the season. That's why we all watch it and love it for the Roller Coaster ups and downs of a full season.

 

[GT49er]

So we've had 65+ attempts at the last 3 games.

But I think we need to look at where there weren't attempts.

Connolly's miss. It looked bad, but these things happen. It's forgiveable.

Missing two penalties. Again, they get missed, though it's frustrating, it's a forgiveable error

But

At the end of the match when Moder puts in a beauty of a cross, when we're desperate for a goal and nobody is attacking it. That is not forgiveable. To not be getting in there at that moment is shocking and points to the most scrambled of scrambled minds.

Here's my solution.

We put our faith in Connolly. Yes yes, he's had a couple of bad misses, but he keeps getting in there and keeps moving.

Up front with him we try Zeqiri. Again, probably not as good a player as Maupay, but it doesn't matter. Neal, for whatever reason is not in the right place mentally to score goals, he's not doing the things which could get him goals. He needs time out of the side. Zeqiri gives us the option to swing the balll into the box to compete for a header which we don't really have at the moment.

Trossard is clearly a skillful player, but has no ability to strike the ball cleanly or head the ball, and so cannot continue up front. We play him at Left Wing Back. Tell him to provide width and deliver into the box. That's his game.

Wellbeck. Sorry, but he'd be last one I picked. Let's trust and develop our players for the future

Tau. Difficult to say, as we've only seen little of him, but GP doesn't seem to trust him

Andone. He could have a part to play, and I rate him, but it's fanciful to think he's going to be able to come back in and be fully back to where he was

The team which will get the goals and wins up to the international break looks something like ....

--------------Sanchez
---------White Dunk Burn
Veltman Moder Bissouma Trossard
--------------MacAllister
-----------Connolly Zeqiri

Gross sometimes for MacAllister. Obv's Webby and Lamptey are going to be challenging for a place when fit

Makes a bit of sense to me - but I wouldn't trust Trossard as a wing back.

 

[London Irish]

Weird thread, started by a strong supporter of Potter, basically undermining a consensus view that the only part of the team that Potter has got functioning really well is the midfield. I think there is probably something in it but really just shows how far we are away from being anything but bottom 5/6 scrappers. Hard to know where that elusive progression to the next level is going to come from except a big squad revamp. And managers who can’t work with the existing squad of players don’t tend to last too long at our club

 

[albionalbino]

Lots of moaning about the strikers and lack of competent strikers.

Its quite interesting. Brighton strikers so far scored 11 goals (Maupay 7, Connolly 2, Welbeck 2).

That is one more goal than West Ham in 4th place.

The midfielders scored 7 goals so far.

That is 13 less than West Hams 20 (Soucek 8, Bowen 5, Lingard 3, Fornals 2, Lanzini 1, Rice 1).

Leicester strikers scored 14 goals (Vardy 12, Perez 1, Iheanacho 1). Better than the Brighton strikers? Yes, 3 more. Does 3 more take you to the Champions League?

No. Midfield goal production does

I repeat: the Brighton midfielders scored 7 goals. Leicesters midfielders: 24 (Barnes 9, Maddison 8, Tielemans 5, Praet 1, Ndidi 1).

I've said this about twenty times on the board already, always getting the reply "... but its the strikers job to score, Clough said so in the 70s"). Fair enough. But fact remains - goal production from midfielders are very important if you want to win games, and the major difference between Brighton and the top teams. The handful more goals produced by their strikers got very limited impact compared to the ca 15 goals more that the midfielders of (pretty much every) other team scored.

Interesting point, which I agree with. You've said previously that you see coaching as less important as natural ability so if we dismiss this option, how do you think Potter will remedy the midfield weakness? Transfer market in the summer? Moder and Caicedo's emergence??

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Weird thread, started by a strong supporter of Potter, basically undermining a consensus view that the only part of the team that Potter has got functioning really well is the midfield. I think there is probably something in it but really just shows how far we are away from being anything but bottom 5/6 scrappers. Hard to know where that elusive progression to the next level is going to come from except a big squad revamp. And managers who can’t work with the existing squad of players don’t tend to last too long at our club

No it isn't. [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION]'s point is midfielders aren't scoring enough, not that they aren't functioning (creating chances and breaking up attacks). When they get a chance to shoot they pass or they miss more often than they should.

Also 'the next level' was simply, initially, playing actual football rather than doing the U dance (up the side and back, round the back and up the other side and back, round the back and up the other side).

 

[b.w.2.]

Interesting point, which I agree with. You've said previously that you see coaching as less important as natural ability so if we dismiss this option, how do you think Potter will remedy the midfield weakness? Transfer market in the summer? Moder and Caicedo's emergence??

Interesting but wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bry Nylon]

If goals from midfield are part of the key, then the continual re-jigging and rotation of personnel and formation between Mac Allister, Groß, Propper, Alzate, Lallana, Trossard and Bissouma can't be helping. It certainly seemed we performed better when we played a more settled side.

Doubtless I'm wrong.

 

[Swansman]

Interesting point, which I agree with. You've said previously that you see coaching as less important as natural ability so if we dismiss this option, how do you think Potter will remedy the midfield weakness? Transfer market in the summer? Moder and Caicedo's emergence??

Coaching is definitely less important than natural ability but that doesnt mean players can not be improved, someone like Ali Mac will hopefully improve. Too many central midfielders atm so someone will have to go and its probably not necessary to bring someone in, its on the wings and in the AMC role (and striker, obv) where I think the club should/will try to make some nice, classy recruitment. Five or six midfielders/strikers out, two or three in.

 

[blue-shifted]

Makes a bit of sense to me - but I wouldn't trust Trossard as a wing back.

It's based on a view that we can afford to risk conceding more in order to score more

 

[Swansman]

If goals from midfield are part of the key, then the continual re-jigging and rotation of personnel and formation between Mac Allister, Groß, Propper, Alzate, Lallana, Trossard and Bissouma can't be helping. It certainly seemed we performed better when we played a more settled side.

Doubtless I'm wrong.

The team pretty much played the same starting eleven for the last seven or eight games now with only one or two changes between games (mostly out of necessity). While results over this time are generally decent the guys have not really been scoring for fun. Mac Allister started 8 out of the last 9, Gross 8 out of the last 9, Trossard 8 of the last 9 and Bissouma 7 out of the last 9... I dont know how much more consistency than that you can expect?

 

[vagabond]

It’s a shame we haven’t got any strikers coming through pushing for a place in the squad.

Clearly GP, to his credit, has no qualms putting faith in young talent (Lamptey, Alzate, Connolly, Sanchez), so I can only assume he doesn’t feel we have any worthy strikers from the u23’s/u18’s (yet..).

The one to watch out for is young Zak Emerson. 8 goals in 10 games for the u18’s.

 

[London Irish]

No it isn't. [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION]'s point is midfielders aren't scoring enough, not that they aren't functioning (creating chances and breaking up attacks). When they get a chance to shoot they pass or they miss more often than they should.

Also 'the next level' was simply, initially, playing actual football rather than doing the U dance (up the side and back, round the back and up the other side and back, round the back and up the other side).

How on earth is the midfield functioning well if it’s not scoring its expected contribution of goals. It’s a basic contradiction - you’ll have to explain a bit more