[News] Middle East conflict

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Please stop this arguing over antisemitism - it’s really distateful.

Antisemitism and Islamophobic attacks have risen, not only on every university campus in the US but worldwide since 7/10 as verified by independent policing stats - it doesn’t matter who reports incidences of antisemitism or Islamophobia other than both get labelled accurately and both get reported as such. It also matters that both Jews and Muslims are given equal treatment under the laws of discrimination and freedom of speech (which at the moment appears questionable)

Yes, the Adl is biased, it is known for its anti-zionist views as I said above, as are some of the sources reporting Islamophobic attacks biased and are pro-Islam, some sources have left wing or have a right wing agenda in their reporting - however, many incidences of discrimination don’t get reported to neutral organisations in the first place but to groups that can support the victims and to a culturally sensitive group the victims are comfortable with, so it is not surprising the sources of reports are often special interest.

The bias or non-bias nature of the sources, does not make any discrimination or racial attacks on anyone ok so please stop highlighting incidences of antisemitism or any other form of racial hatred on this thread just to score points - know there are a growing number of Arab/Muslims and Jews who are victims of some shocking incidences of racial hatred in Westernised societies and it’s largely down to ignorance of the issues and the people involved that it is so rife at all.

Thread Curator has spoken

 

[borat]

Please stop this arguing over antisemitism - it’s really distateful.

Antisemitism and Islamophobic attacks have risen, not only on every university campus in the US but worldwide since 7/10 as verified by independent policing stats - it doesn’t matter who reports incidences of antisemitism or Islamophobia other than both get labelled accurately and both get reported as such. It also matters that both Jews and Muslims are given equal treatment under the laws of discrimination and freedom of speech (which at the moment appears questionable)

Yes, the Adl is biased, it is known for its anti-zionist views as I said above, as are some of the sources reporting Islamophobic attacks biased and are pro-Islam, some sources have left wing or have a right wing agenda in their reporting - however, many incidences of discrimination don’t get reported to neutral organisations in the first place but to groups that can support the victims and to a culturally sensitive group the victims are comfortable with, so it is not surprising the sources of reports are often special interest.

The bias or non-bias nature of the sources, does not make any discrimination or racial attacks on anyone ok so please stop highlighting incidences of antisemitism or any other form of racial hatred on this thread just to score points - know there are a growing number of Arab/Muslims and Jews who are victims of some shocking incidences of racial hatred in Westernised societies and it’s largely down to ignorance of the issues and the people involved that it is so rife at all.

Debating the use/misuse of anti-semitism as a political weapon is extremely valid especially when it is frequently being used as a powerful tool to drown out legitimate critiques of Israel. It was used effectively against the Labour left over the years and now during this "conflict"

Pro-Israeli / Zionist groups are labelling the protests as a whole protest movement as anti-semitic in order to shut them down. As repeated many times on this thread, there are many Jews and Jewish groups involved in these protests (not that have any obligation to take part).

That is a completely different debate to the question of whether or not anti-Semitic or islamaphobic incidents have risen (don't think many are disputing there is sadly an increase).

 

[rippleman]

Debating the use/misuse of anti-semitism as a political weapon is extremely valid especially when it is frequently being used as a powerful tool to drown out legitimate critiques of Israel. It was used effectively against the Labour left over the years and now during this "conflict"

Pro-Israeli / Zionist groups are labelling the protests as a whole protest movement as anti-semitic in order to shut them down. As repeated many times on this thread, there are many Jews and Jewish groups involved in these protests (not that have any obligation to take part).

That is a completely different debate to the question of whether or not anti-Semitic or islamaphobic incidents have risen (don't think many are disputing there is sadly an increase).

Spot on.

Critical of Israel = anti-semite. It's the way that the extreme right wing State of Israel likes to play it. And both our politicians and those in the US just go along with it. It's so important that everybody understands that to criticise the genocide of women and children by the Israeli state does NOT an anti-semite make.

 

[aolstudios]

Spot on.

Critical of Israel = anti-semite. It's the way that the extreme right wing State of Israel likes to play it. And both our politicians and those in the US just go along with it. It's so important that everybody understands that to criticise the genocide of women and children by the Israeli state does NOT an anti-semite make.

Is anyone suggesting that simple criticism of the Israeli state is?

 

[Zeberdi]

Debating the use/misuse of anti-semitism as a political weapon is extremely valid

As you well know because you have followed this thread from the start, I have raised the issue of the weaponisation of antisemitism myself repeatedly, in fact was I was the one of the first that introduced it to the thread discussion originally in arguing with our Jewish Councillor - so simply repeating those same arguments back at me to make a point is a little disingenuous and creating a straw argument. Of course antisemitism has been weaponised and of course criticism of Netanyahu is not being antisemitic - whether that extends to criticism against Israel as a whole is debatable and on this thread ‘Jews’ and ‘Israelis’ have been frequently stereotyped as aligned with Netanyahu’s political views as have Palestinians with terrorists.

I am just asking us to stop arguing over what it means to be antisemitic or over sources reporting antisemitism or islamophobia (because all sources carry some form of bias - not least a Western cultural bias in the MSM as a whole). Is it not enough just to be aware of the bias of each source and accept it for what it is because we keep going round in circles with it every time? - @aolstudios just posted an X from a well known Jewish writer who again is very biased but I chose to let it go because why keep going on about it? The same few posters post incidents of antisemitism or another of islamophobia then someone else accuses the other side of posting biased sources or weaponising antisemitism - it goes on ad infinitum and just leads to mud slinging or arguments then everyone else literally turning off from following the thread because it becomes the same few people arguing their very biased and polarised corners.

Personally, I’m interested in what unites all of us, the horror of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and now rapidly evolving in the West Bank - also following events that could push this conflict into a wider regional war.

I have been a victim of antisemitism- I grew up with it - but I have also personally witnessed deep hatred and mistrust expressed by Jewish people against Palestinians too - by my own relatives even. I don’t think people bandying backwards and forwards over this on a football forum trying to score points over each other know how distressing it is to actually be at the receiving end of racial hatred nor do I believe people that have no direct irl engagement with the issues just arguing about it on the internet understand the complexities that inform peoples racist and cultural hatred.

I just think we can progress much further in understanding of the issues if we stop polarising everything that’s all.

 

[borat]

I am just asking us to stop arguing over what it means to be antisemitic or over sources reporting antisemitism or islamophobia (because all sources carry some form of bias

Sorry to hear of your experiences with anti-semitism.

I agree with nearly all of that post but would still suggest that arguing over what it means to be anti-semitic is a very valid and important element of the debate. Some posters on here use the term liberally and its valid for others to call it out. It devalues the meaning of the word when used in certain ways. Something you have pointed out yourself.

In a more significant context than a football forum - its a definition that is used as a distraction / stifle political debate or in an attempt to silence protest against what we both agree is a horrific situation.

Like you I would prefer the focus to be on a ceasefire and a viable way long term peaceful path for both sides where Israelis are safe and Palestinians are free from occupation/oppression.

 

[Zeberdi]

Meanwhile the IDF is poised to take Rafah - a very significant development - a proposal that been subject to widespread condemnation for weeks

Israel-Hamas war: Middle East crisis latest

Follow this live page for the latest on the wars in the Middle East as Israel fights both Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

news.sky.com

IDF ready for Rafah operation, just waiting for green-light from gov't - report

The IDF announced on Wednesday morning that it recruited two reserve brigades to continue the defense and attack mission in the Gaza Strip under the command of Division 99.

www.jpost.com

 

[knocky1]

'Jewish' voice for Peace is Antisemitic. Every time it speaks. That's what it's for.
Much like its sister, 'Jewish voice for Labour' was in the words of Jon Lansman of all people, "created specifically & only to deflect from claims of antisemitism by the Corbyn administration"
Have you read 1984?

Absolute bollocks anti Zionism is not anti Semitic.
Yawn.
From the numerous Israelis that I have met on 8 trekking trips to Nepal only those on the left can I count as friends.
Your random 1984 question is lacking momentum as Corbyn was not controlling the masses.

Your support for a far right government killing and starving thousands is very disturbing. Are you Joe Biden in disguise?

 

[lasvegan]

The atrocities of 10/7 already long forgotten and now Israel is the sworn enemy. US students wearing keffiyehs and chanting “we are Hamas!”. Iran could not have planned this any better…and the Biden administration was foolish enough to help fund it.

 

[aolstudios]

Absolute bollocks anti Zionism is not anti Semitic.
Yawn.
From the numerous Israelis that I have met on 8 trekking trips to Nepal only those on the left can I count as friends.
Your random 1984 question is lacking momentum as Corbyn was not controlling the masses.

Your support for a far right government killing and starving thousands is very disturbing. Are you Joe Biden in disguise?

My 1984 referencing Newspeak. Have you read it? 'Ministry of Peace' - 'Jewish' voice for Peace'...
Where did I mention supporting a govt?

 

[Zeberdi]

Doctor from Chicago doing a mission in Gaza witnesses children starving and acute hunger situation in Northern Gaza
(contains distressing details)

US doctor describes witnessing starvation in northern Gaza

Dr Sam Attar from Chicago recently returned from Gaza, where the UN is warning of looming famine.

www.bbc.co.uk

Details of a new ceasefire agreement is emerging that Hamas may agree to in order to prevent ground invasion of Rafah

Hamas to AFP: 'No substantial disputes with Israeli deal outline'

Pressure has been mounting on Israel and Hamas to come to an agreement before Israel begins the latest military operation in Rafah.

www.jpost.com

 

[aolstudios]

With Jewish Voice for Peace being amongst the organisers of the protests your use of antisemitism is highly questionable.

It would be hard to believe Trump could have offered more support to Netanyahu or sent more bombs to kill and displace civilians than Biden has.

Weird election coming up though.
Vote Trump for the death of Ukraine and Palestinians.
Vote Biden for the death of Palestinians.

'Jewish' voice for 'Peace'

 

[Zeberdi]

World Central Kitchen to resume Food Aid in Gaza after 7 aid workers were killed on 1 April
"We have been forced to make a decision: Stop feeding altogether during one of the worst hunger crises ever...Or keep feeding knowing that aid, aid workers and civilians are being intimidated and killed …”

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/world-central-kitchen-resume-gaza-aid-after-staff-deaths-israeli-strike-2024-04-28/

World Central Kitchen has been providing food aid to Palestinians since February when NGOs and the UN started warning of food crisis catastrophe. Gaza’s hunger crisis is thought by some UN experts to be the result of a deliberate attempt by Israel to weaponise hunger in the enclave:

“Intentionally depriving people of food is clearly a war crime. Israel has announced its intention to destroy the Palestinian people, in whole or in part, simply for being Palestinian. In my view as a UN human rights expert, this is now a situation of genocide. This means the state of Israel in its entirety is culpable and should be held accountable – not just individuals or this government or that person.”

Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, UN rights expert says

Exclusive: UN special rapporteur on the right to food Michael Fakhri says denial of food is war crime and constitutes ‘a situation of genocide’

www.theguardian.com

 

[borat]

London march on Sunday was well attended

Speeches in Hyde Park made by Corbyn and a moving speech by Holocaust survivor Stephen Kapos.

 

[Zeberdi]

London march on Sunday was well attended

Speeches in Hyde Park made by Corbyn and a moving speech by Holocaust survivor Stephen Kapos.

That interview literally brought tears to my eyes. He reminded me so much of my father.

I urge anyone to watch that who thinks there can not be Jewish people like myself, who utterly condemn Netanyahu’s punishing war on the Palestine people and who are not being antisemitic when we criticise the Israeli government but humanitarian. An empathy with the victims of genocide and oppression for obvious reasons.

 

[perth seagull]

 

[:J)]

Interview with Israeli spokesman David Mencer by Norway Broadcasting Corporation’s Yama Wolasmal:



(Incidental and completely unrelated news snippet: David Mencer used to be a Director of Labour Friends of Israel)

Meanwhile, when some British journalists try to do their jobs with any kind of integrity - they are seemingly relieved of their positions. Odd that.

 

[borat]

Interview with Israeli spokesman David Mencer by Norway Broadcasting Corporation’s Yama Wolasmal:



(Incidental and completely unrelated news snippet: David Mencer used to be a Director of Labour Friends of Israel)

Meanwhile, when some British journalists try to do their jobs with any kind of integrity - they are seemingly relieved of their positions. Odd that.

Absolutely shocking how easily and frequently Israeli officials spew lies to cover up their heinous crimes. The fact that David Mencer was director of Labour Friends of Israel tells you all you need to know about Labour and its warped relationship with Israel.

On your second point, there seems to be quite a few journalists being fired for asking inconvenient questions - other than the ones you mentioned, Mehdi Hasan was fired from MSNBC for seemingly 'inconvenient' reporting.

He set up his own media company https://www.youtube.com/@zeteo_news

 

[rippleman]

London march on Sunday was well attended

Speeches in Hyde Park made by Corbyn and a moving speech by Holocaust survivor Stephen Kapos.

Thank you for posting this. What a brave, eloquent fella. Hopefully that will put the couple of apologists for the extreme right-wing state of Israel back in their box.

You have, however, mentioned the "C word" so we can expect HWT along shortly for a rant

 

[rippleman]

Absolutely shocking how easily and frequently Israeli officials spew lies to cover up their heinous crimes. The fact that David Mencer was director of Labour Friends of Israel tells you all you need to know about Labour and its warped relationship with Israel.

On your second point, there seems to be quite a few journalists being fired for asking inconvenient questions - other than the ones you mentioned, Mehdi Hasan was fired from MSNBC for seemingly 'inconvenient' reporting.

He set up his own media company https://www.youtube.com/@zeteo_news

Might explain why Starmer refused to call for a ceasefire for so long. After the UN called for a ceasefire, he couldn't really hold off much longer could he?