aolstudios
Well-known member
'Casualties' for this war come directly (& mysteriously, instantly) from Hamas. Who neglect to count anyone as military
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
thejackal
Throbbing Member
Casualties on the Palestinian side are artificially suppressed because nobody is counting the missing and/or those buried under tons of rubble. The real figure will no doubt be higher:
"Our monitoring suggests that the numbers provided by the Ministry of Health may be under-reporting as they do not include fatalities who did not reach hospitals or may be lost under the rubble," the U.N. human rights office spokesperson said.
"Our monitoring suggests that the numbers provided by the Ministry of Health may be under-reporting as they do not include fatalities who did not reach hospitals or may be lost under the rubble," the U.N. human rights office spokesperson said.
It really is a stupid exercise now. They haven't 'committed' to genocide, but instead kill relatively indiscriminately while destroying infrastructure. Looks like genocide to me. What happens when Israel decide they have done 'enough'? What is 'enough'? Are they seriously not going to stop until every member of Hamas is dead? They will have to kill everyone (all the adult males, at least) to achieve that end. Then how is Gaza rebuilt? Will the survivors be blockaded and left to die of disease? It looks like a grotesque act of bullying, now.
And yet, if Israel does stop, Hamas will just regroup, rinse and repeat. They refuse to engage with a ceasefire themselves, and maintain their commitment to keeping Jewish hostages. Hamas really is like the little guy who keeps attacking the big guy, and never gives up, and eventually ends up being killed.
The only solution is for America to force Israel to stop and then force Israel and Hamas to have talks. Or maybe force the Palestinians to first elect a new government. There is going to have to be a lot of forcing for there to be a workable solution. Not going to happen, is it?
Meanwhile I imagine Israel will cease when Gaza is in ruins, and the next time Hamas or its successors kick off again, the population will again be greatly reduced by what will be nothing less than more genocide and more war crime.
I have no suggestion for a workable solution, and will very certainly not be waving a flag in Trafalgar square in the hope that Sunk can be persuaded to launch the British Navy, attack Israel, and rescue the Palestinians from their fate. Sorry to sound facetious but does anyone have the remotest semblance of a solution to all this? All I see is frustration and the occasional bit of blaming (or one side or another, based on one's historical prejudice). That's rubbish, frankly.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
Yes, I do have a solution. The solution is the UN resolution calling for a Palestinian state that, every year for decades, is voted FOR by the entire world but AGAINST by Israel (and occasionally, under pressure, by certain US allies) and VETOED by the USA.
It's literally the whole world on one side, and Israel and the USA on the other.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
Anyway, it's almost footy time lads.
Peace and love to all of you, as us peacenik snowflakes like to say.
Time for a low-alcohol beverage
Peace and love to all of you, as us peacenik snowflakes like to say.
Time for a low-alcohol beverage
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,947
I think it's important that when you band about accusations of racism they are substantiated.
I have seen no racism in this thread. But that is not to say I am correct.
Can you let me/us know what you consider as racism towards Jews ? I say you because you would doubtless be able to find individual examples across many organisations. I would say Brighton fans are not racist, but you could probably find an example at a match on some date. I would say the Labour Party is not by essence racist towards Jews and never was, but you could probably find examples (the Labour Party has actually expelled Jews for being racist- against Jews). The problem is that a lot of what I saw was not racist, but had been weaponised as such.
It brings me back to my original points about this whole sad situation. Instead of trying to find ways to rally for securing peace, those who report and comment on the conflict seem mostly interested in drawing further lines and fuelling their own prejudice. If you are not for Israel you must be against it. But this was never the case for many. They were just against persecution and oppression. Like the folk I've seen in here.
Sometimes I feel, as I move into my later years, that this whole experience of life has been spent watching some strange cinemtaic reel of extremes. Like a kid standing in the playground of his new school watching the whole yard erupting into fights and bundles and just wanting find somone to play a friendly game of marbles with.
And that's the new world we live in, or maybe the old one too. Extremes (the media, politicians, nationalists) fighting for their agendas and pieces of ground whilst others just watch in bewiderment.
20,000 or so folk are dead. Mostly women and the very same kids who wanted to play marbles. But I'm told Israel has taken great care. And folk still treat it like a grand video game, some firing the harshest insults to see which ones land best, and others doing the real shooting.
That isn't a solution, is it. A solution is something that creates a resolution - something happens and the problem ceases. You are simply describing something that happens. It is no more a solution than standing in Trafalgar square and singing 'O, Jeremy Corbyn' is a solution.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
I'm not so sure about that.
The UN resolution, once finally agreed to by Israel, would be implemented, thus creating a solution.
It may take generations for the pain and suspicion to dissipate but eventually a solution would be there.
This is literally the two state solution that's been discussed for decades.
I detect a small flaw in your plan. Two in fact.
thejackal
Throbbing Member
Well yes, exactly.
Logically, therefore, Israel is clearly the barrier to a solution.
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
Things could escalate with Hezbollah - quite a significant development I think particularly in West Bank possibly increasing hostilities over border into to Syria and Lebanon.
www.bbc.co.uk
news.sky.com
Hamas deputy leader Saleh al-Arouri killed in Beirut blast - BBC News
Saleh al-Arouri is the most senior Hamas figure killed since the Israel-Hamas war began in October.
www.bbc.co.uk
Middle East latest: 'Countdown has begun': Israel warns new Hezbollah leader after spate of killings
At least 93 people have been killed in an Israeli strike in northern Gaza, according to officials. Meanwhile, in Lebanon the Hezbollah militant group has elected a new leader after the death of Hassan Nasrallah - and in Israel, the UN Palestinian agency has been banned from operating.
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armchairclubber
Well-known member
And that is why I've been in agreement with sanctions being called for against Israel. As previously posted with calls for the suspension of British arms trade with Israel.
Sunak and Starmer are not on board.
UK can do more and diplomacy could take a different course before things escalate further and as they have been escalating for weeks.
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thejackal
Throbbing Member
Unfortunately, the UK arms industry is waaaaaaaaay too profitable and powerful for that to ever happen.
The UK has about 15% of the entire global arms trade, worth billions. It's one of our biggest industries. Most of our sales go to the Middle East and most of that to Saudi.
dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
Well, I’m sure we can all be proud with that!
the way Israel have gone about this is just dreadful, even down to a lot of their politicians wearing black shirts. They’ve been bleating about the loss of 200 soldiers - Jesus, how many innocent civilians have been killed?
thejackal
Throbbing Member
tens of thousands :-(
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,361
Including the innocent civilians savagely slaughtered on 7th October? Or is that just bleating too?
aolstudios
Well-known member
Slaughtered, tortured, raped, paraded through the streets to be spat on by crowds, kidnapped...
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
At least 9,000 children but many missing
From the 7/10 massacre
695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139 and 8,000 injured
From the war in Gaza
figures harder to quantify but around 9,000 children (with 8,663 injured, 7,000 missing) from a total of 22,489 and 57,000 injured
If people try and win the higher moral ground based on numbers there’s no comparison and they should not be compared like this anyway - it’s not a competition. It’s heinous that people including foreigners died in on 7/10 and heinous that civilian casualties are continuing to mount up daily in Gaza.
Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths
A more precise picture of Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel has emerged from social security data, confirming the unprecedented scale of the violence but also challenging some initial testimonies.
www.france24.com
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dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
No, I think we all accept that the initiation of all this was unacceptable and required a response. I was referring to Israel’s decision to send in its army, on top of its random bombing, and complain when they get killed.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,361
If the Israeli army was 'random bombing' in such a densely populated area, then the figures would be astronomically higher than they're being quoted as. Not that any figure is a good figure
