[Politics] May - In or Out?

[Hastings gull]

What are you talking about? There is nothing unreasonable about asking the question: "Why would anyone want to sell a deal that leaves us in a worse place than we are now"

I came to the conclusion long ago that you're one of those people who thinks he's the voice of reason on this board. This pretty much proves you're not.

Well, would you believe it–fancy you coming to that conclusion. The only thing that really surprises me about your post is that as yet, there haven’t been any insults, as in the past, but I imagine that this is not far off. His post showed real arrogance – neither, he, I or you, could possibly be in a position to make such a definitive statement – we may be worse off and equally we may not be. Very few of us know for sure. The whole thread about the EU shows time and time again posts from folk who really don’t know for certain but this never seemingly stops them from bold and often exaggerated statements designed to present opinion as fact.

 

[Weststander]

You know May's surprised everyone with a decent job, in a nightmarish scenario, when the BBC hatchet-men and women praise her resilience. At lunchtime making it plain that business leaders gave her the massive thumbs up today with warm appreciation, the rebel back benchers can't muster the numbers and even if they could she'd likely win a vote of confidence, and all EU leaders have praised her compromise deal. Even agent provocateur Kuenssberg has been praising her leadership for days now.

That's some going when she had so many interests against her.

 

[Simster]

Well, would you believe it–fancy you coming to that conclusion. The only thing that really surprises me about your post is that as yet, there haven’t been any insults, as in the past, but I imagine that this is not far off. His post showed real arrogance – neither, he, I or you, could possibly be in a position to make such a definitive statement – we may be worse off and equally we may not be. Very few of us know for sure. The whole thread about the EU shows time and time again posts from folk who really don’t know for certain but this never seemingly stops them from bold and often exaggerated statements designed to present opinion as fact.

But YOU'RE allowed to post insults aren't you? As you do by sniping at pretty much anything [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] posts.

There is nothing remotely arrogant in asking why we'd want a deal that leaves us worse off than we are now. This deal is quite clearly exactly that. If it wasn't, it might after all have a cat in hell's chance of getting through parliament.

 

[Hastings gull]

You know May's surprised everyone with a decent job, in a nightmarish scenario, when the BBC hatchet-men and women praise her resilience. At lunchtime making it plain that business leaders gave her the massive thumbs up today with warm appreciation, the rebel back benchers can't muster the numbers and even if they could she'd likely win a vote of confidence, and all EU leaders have praised her compromise deal. Even agent provocateur Kuenssberg has been praising her leadership for days now.

That's some going when she had so many interests against her.

The longer this whole saga goes on, the more likely she is to pull the compromise off - it must be murder having to face down so much strident opposition from all sides -perhaps she does command the support of the silent majority of the public, or at least admiration for her dignified stand. Polls say the majority thinks it is a bad deal, but in all honesty how many folk have ploughed through the document and are able to give a truly knowledgeable answer. Easy to be mesmerised by politicians voicing opinions on the box, and assume they speak for the majority. But who knows how it will all end?

 

[Simster]

You know May's surprised everyone with a decent job, in a nightmarish scenario, when the BBC hatchet-men and women praise her resilience. At lunchtime making it plain that business leaders gave her the massive thumbs up today with warm appreciation, the rebel back benchers can't muster the numbers and even if they could she'd likely win a vote of confidence, and all EU leaders have praised her compromise deal. Even agent provocateur Kuenssberg has been praising her leadership for days now.

That's some going when she had so many interests against her.

Decent job? I might have sympathy for this point of view if she hadn't brought this on herself. You obviously forget that she went to the electorate with the hope of a thumping majority so as to get the job done, but then the whole Tory party ran the most arrogant, lazy campaign I think I've ever seen, thus ensuring no overall majority at all. To compound matters, she then bribed the DUP to the tune of £1bn, and they are now the tail that wag the dog and have stood in the way of the only real way of making Brexit work to everyone's advantage, by insisting on no border in the Irish sea. They don't even speak for the Northern Ireland electorate.

So how exactly is that "a decent job"?

 

[CHAPPERS]

The CBI are still concerned about friction at the border and unskilled migrants so I wouldn't say they are totally sold by any means.

 

[Weststander]

Decent job? I might have sympathy for this point of view if she hadn't brought this on herself. You obviously forget that she went to the electorate with the hope of a thumping majority so as to get the job done, but then the whole Tory party ran the most arrogant, lazy campaign I think I've ever seen, thus ensuring no overall majority at all. To compound matters, she then bribed the DUP to the tune of £1bn, and they are now the tail that wag the dog and have stood in the way of the only real way of making Brexit work to everyone's advantage, by insisting on no border in the Irish sea. They don't even speak for the Northern Ireland electorate.

So how exactly is that "a decent job"?

I voted Remain, but the majority of voters Brexit.

How would you have honoured their decision?

 

[Hastings gull]

But YOU'RE allowed to post insults aren't you? As you do by sniping at pretty much anything [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] posts.

There is nothing remotely arrogant in asking why we'd want a deal that leaves us worse off than we are now. This deal is quite clearly exactly that. If it wasn't, it might after all have a cat in hell's chance of getting through parliament.

Sniping, as you put it -I would prefer to call it disagreement -is NOT the same as an insult, is it! Ironically, you go on to show precisely the arrogance that I am referring to. To say something is worse than we now have, is a subjective statement, which is someone's opinion to which of course they are entitled. But that is all that it is -others will share the PM's view and was she not cheered today by business leaders, who would take issue with you, as they have a different opinion. So instead of blindly claiming that you must be right, just think for once that you might not be. For the record, I genuinely don't know how it will all end, but am pretty certain that unless folk are prepared to get off their high horse and embrace some sort of compromise, then we will be getting nowhere. The voice of reason!

 

[Simster]

I voted Remain, but the majority of voters Brexit.

How would you have honoured their decision?

That is irrelevant. I am taking issue with your assertion that she has done a decent job. She hasn't. She has made a difficult situation (inherited from Call Me Dave) considerably more difficult by failing to galvanise her party to campaign properly (remember she refused to appear on a TV leader debate), she has allowed a fringe party of lunatics to dictate how she negotiates a Brexit deal, and above all, she hasn't achieved anything yet because this isn't going to get through parliament.

 

[Simster]

Sniping, as you put it -I would prefer to call it disagreement -is NOT the same as an insult, is it! Ironically, you go on to show precisely the arrogance that I am referring to. To say something is worse than we now have, is a subjective statement, which is someone's opinion to which of course they are entitled. But that is all that it is -others will share the PM's view and was she not cheered today by business leaders, who would take issue with you, as they have a different opinion. So instead of blindly claiming that you must be right, just think for once that you might not be. For the record, I genuinely don't know how it will all end, but am pretty certain that unless folk are prepared to get off their high horse and embrace some sort of compromise, then we will be getting nowhere. The voice of reason!

Of course you would prefer to call it disagreement, but that doesn't mean that's what it is. In my view, you are pompous and rude because you constantly criticise his posts, regardless of their worth. What he said on this thread is perfectly reasonable, and that is all I'm saying.

Of course I might not be right - but for that to happen we'd need the Brexit promised by Brexiteers, not this one which is almost indisputably worse than what we have already.

 

[Hastings gull]

Of course you would prefer to call it disagreement, but that doesn't mean that's what it is. In my view, you are pompous and rude because you constantly criticise his posts, regardless of their worth. What he said on this thread is perfectly reasonable, and that is all I'm saying.

Of course I might not be right - but for that to happen we'd need the Brexit promised by Brexiteers, not this one which is almost indisputably worse than what we have already.

As to your first assertion -suggest you try and make sense of it. So by your logic, you too must be rude, as you criticise my posts -seriously, is this really what you think, that if you meet with an opposing view, that is rudeness?! And as for your last point; you really can't give it up, can you? You agree that you might not be right, but then go on to want the last word, stating that that the agreement IS worse. So you are right!

 

[Hastings gull]

Of course you would prefer to call it disagreement, but that doesn't mean that's what it is. In my view, you are pompous and rude because you constantly criticise his posts, regardless of their worth. What he said on this thread is perfectly reasonable, and that is all I'm saying.

Of course I might not be right - but for that to happen we'd need the Brexit promised by Brexiteers, not this one which is almost indisputably worse than what we have already.

Exactly what worth would you attach to his post stating that re-education camps should be introduced when/if labour came to power?

 

[Simster]

As to your first assertion -suggest you try and make sense of it. So by your logic, you too must be rude, as you criticise my posts -seriously, is this really what you think, that if you meet with an opposing view, that is rudeness?! And as for your last point; you really can't give it up, can you? You agree that you might not be right, but then go on to want the last word, stating that that the agreement IS worse. So you are right!

You accuse him with coming up with bile regularly. That is not "disagreement" and then you accused him of "apparent refusal" for pointing out that the proposed deal leaves us in a worse state than the status quo.

I'm bored of arguing with your nonsensical noise now. Fill your boots and have the last word if you wish.

 

[Ernest]

May now throwing out the anti immigrant bile to try and rescue her deal, banning EU nationals from working here would mean exactly the same for our nationals wanting to work in Europe as the EU have said what you do to us we'll do to you.

If I was a youngster, even anyone really having my career choices wrecked due to May pandering to the Tory gammon I'd be sure to be mad as hell with this deal.

 

[Hastings gull]

You accuse him with coming up with bile regularly. That is not "disagreement" and then you accused him of "apparent refusal" for pointing out that the proposed deal leaves us in a worse state than the status quo.

I'm bored of arguing with your nonsensical noise now. Fill your boots and have the last word if you wish.

I don't wish to be rude but I think it is an inability on your part to properly register what you are reading, as you loosely link things together. I accuse him of spouting bile because that is regularly what he writes, as you must have seen yourself. Do you agree with what he comes up with? His tone is quite deliberately provocative and asks for a response. And the disagreement comes with the ideas that he produces, albeit at times crudely put. And who is he or indeed you to POINT OUT (to all the other thickos) that a proposed deal will leave us worse off when you could not possibly be in a position to make such a definitive statement - had he/you said you think that it might etc, then that's fine. So of course I accuse him etc.

Two further points -are you his little lap dog? You also moaned at Bozza for criticising him- does E pay you? I notice you didn't reply to my point about the worth of his statement as to re-education. I think we both know why!

 

[Hastings gull]

May now throwing out the anti immigrant bile to try and rescue her deal, banning EU nationals from working here would mean exactly the same for our nationals wanting to work in Europe as the EU have said what you do to us we'll do to you.

If I was a youngster, even anyone really having my career choices wrecked due to May pandering to the Tory gammon I'd be sure to be mad as hell with this deal.

Before your little helper springs to action, can I ask if you or I have got this right? I am sure that I heard on the lunchtime BBC news that EU citizens would not be able to jump the queue, which is not what you are claiming. The broadcaster said that this would mean that unskilled workers from the EU would find it more difficult.

 

[Weststander]

That is irrelevant. I am taking issue with your assertion that she has done a decent job. She hasn't. She has made a difficult situation (inherited from Call Me Dave) considerably more difficult by failing to galvanise her party to campaign properly (remember she refused to appear on a TV leader debate), she has allowed a fringe party of lunatics to dictate how she negotiates a Brexit deal, and above all, she hasn't achieved anything yet because this isn't going to get through parliament.

Answering your comment directly, in this particular situation, IMO she’s got the best deal possible.

The tone of your angry comments smack of anti Tory, anti Brexit, anti, anti.

My question to you is, Brexit was the winning vote ... how would you achieve that?

 

[Simster]

Answering your comment directly, in this particular situation, IMO she’s got the best deal possible.

The tone of your angry comments smack of anti Tory, anti Brexit, anti, anti.

My question to you is, Brexit was the winning vote ... how would you achieve that?

I am very angry about Brexit and the conduct of the Tories, yes. I won't be apologising for that because I think they've done dreadful damage to the country and I simply cannot accept that May has got the best deal possible for the reasons I outlined on this thread. i.e. she has no business accepting any credit for the deal she's cobbled together because a) it is indisputably worse than the status quo, which is not what Brexit promised and b) she locked herself into a dreadful deal when she headed up an awful, arrogant general election campaign, got punished for it and thus had to bribe the DUP to cling onto power at all. That party is 100% responsible for this utter shit show so I'm not in the business of applauding her for treading a fine line.

I've made my views clear on the Brexit referendum pretty clear over on the Brexit thread. I'm not doing it all here. Suffice to say that I believe there are sufficient ground to support a second referendum, or a people's vote if you want to use that silly euphemism.

 

[BensGrandad]

I must have either misheard or misunderstood the news at lunchtime as i took it to mean that skilled workers would be welcome but unskilled manual workers from abroad wouldnt be welcome. I would ask do we not have sufficient unemployed who could get off of their arses and fill those jobs rather than claim benefits

 

[Weststander]

I am very angry about Brexit and the conduct of the Tories, yes. I won't be apologising for that because I think they've done dreadful damage to the country and I simply cannot accept that May has got the best deal possible for the reasons I outlined on this thread. i.e. she has no business accepting any credit for the deal she's cobbled together because a) it is indisputably worse than the status quo, which is not what Brexit promised and b) she locked herself into a dreadful deal when she headed up an awful, arrogant general election campaign, got punished for it and thus had to bribe the DUP to cling onto power at all. That party is 100% responsible for this utter shit show so I'm not in the business of applauding her for treading a fine line.

I've made my views clear on the Brexit referendum pretty clear over on the Brexit thread. I'm not doing it all here. Suffice to say that I believe there are sufficient ground to support a second referendum, or a people's vote if you want to use that silly euphemism.

No one is asking you to apologise. But the views of others are equally valid. There are a handful of posters who listen to all and are flexible minded, far too few. I think loads of those piling in with angry comments, never positive, are staunchy anti Tory, they were in say 2009 and they are today. Clouding all judgement about evil May, evil Cameron, etc, etc. Blinkered to ignore the staunch anti-EU views of Corbyn, McDonnell, union leaders and others in the Labour movement. In short, armchair class warfare clouding all judgement.