[Politics] May 2021 local elections and Hartlepool by-election

[The Clamp]

yes, of course I am the one who has a chip on my shoulder and seeks to character assassinate anybody who disagrees with me.

It would seem so. But I’m certainly not without fault. Let he who is without sin.. and all that.
Have a nice day.
TTFN
TC

 

[Wardy's twin]

No, the electorate hasn’t fallen for a lie. You are a citizen in a modern, democratic country and have had all the benefits that come with that, one of which is an education. You have no excuses for your failure to understand the idea that people simply disagree with you.

There are definitely people who got what they wanted out of Brexit but not sure you could say that about the fishermen or the unionists.

 

[beorhthelm]

Pre pandemic, how exactly was the UK economy trashed?

by objective measures it was not. GDP grew slightly more in 2019, and we were second largest economy in Europe. https://www.statista.com/statistics/685925/gdp-of-european-countries/
and spending increased gradually
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/public-spending-statistics-release-february-2020/public-spending-statistics-february-2020

there were headwinds from international issues (some countries heading for a technical recession) that we looked to be avoiding. also doing well on international stage
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-...ountry-in-the-world-in-audit-of-major-powers/


but this Hartlepool election wasnt about any of that. it was about people simply wanting to have the views listened too.

 

[abc]

A sample of posts on this thread that summarise perfectly why Labour and/or the left have lost the support of so many people:


• They (Hartepool voters) are ignorant, racist thickos.
• Labour need to forget the forlock tuggers in the likes of Hartlepool
• Thickos in Hartlepool have still voted on Brexit, that is how stupid they are
• Post in response to the above: To be fair, it’s getting more and more difficult to think much else of people who still vote for the Tory party.
• Gave up on the majority of the public some time ago, we are awash with ignorant morons.
• The only people I’m blaming are the Tories and their utter contempt for the British public. If you buy into that sort of thing, that’s your look out.
• This pig-in-shit (Boris) can do no wrong for the majority of voters in this country at the moment; they don’t care about the lies because they know he is a liar.
• I blame the Tory’s and their supporters first and foremost. The electorate has fallen for a lie

To win elections you have to respect the elctorate.

 

[Chicken Run]

Tbf I wouldn’t wish that upon you. And you are, quite rightly, fact checking me so it’s on me to provide sources. If I have time over the weekend, I will repost the list with a source for each point.

Many thanks [emoji106]


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[midnight_rendezvous]

A sample of posts on this thread that summarise perfectly why Labour and/or the left have lost the support of so many people:


• They (Hartepool voters) are ignorant, racist thickos.
• Labour need to forget the forlock tuggers in the likes of Hartlepool
• Thickos in Hartlepool have still voted on Brexit, that is how stupid they are
• Post in response to the above: To be fair, it’s getting more and more difficult to think much else of people who still vote for the Tory party.
• Gave up on the majority of the public some time ago, we are awash with ignorant morons.
• The only people I’m blaming are the Tories and their utter contempt for the British public. If you buy into that sort of thing, that’s your look out.
• This pig-in-shit (Boris) can do no wrong for the majority of voters in this country at the moment; they don’t care about the lies because they know he is a liar.
• I blame the Tory’s and their supporters first and foremost. The electorate has fallen for a lie

To win elections you have to respect the elctorate.

And yet I saw a man on BBC News this morning saying he voted Tory because Labour hasn't been building hospitals while the Tories have been in power Tell me, should I respect this man’s opinion and not question what on Earth he is on about?

 

[BadFish]

A sample of posts on this thread that summarise perfectly why Labour and/or the left have lost the support of so many people:


• They (Hartepool voters) are ignorant, racist thickos.
• Labour need to forget the forlock tuggers in the likes of Hartlepool
• Thickos in Hartlepool have still voted on Brexit, that is how stupid they are
• Post in response to the above: To be fair, it’s getting more and more difficult to think much else of people who still vote for the Tory party.
• Gave up on the majority of the public some time ago, we are awash with ignorant morons.
• The only people I’m blaming are the Tories and their utter contempt for the British public. If you buy into that sort of thing, that’s your look out.
• This pig-in-shit (Boris) can do no wrong for the majority of voters in this country at the moment; they don’t care about the lies because they know he is a liar.
• I blame the Tory’s and their supporters first and foremost. The electorate has fallen for a lie

To win elections you have to respect the electorate. . .

. . . . more than your opposition . . . or at least convince them that you do.

 

[The Clamp]

A sample of posts on this thread that summarise perfectly why Labour and/or the left have lost the support of so many people:


• They (Hartepool voters) are ignorant, racist thickos.
• Labour need to forget the forlock tuggers in the likes of Hartlepool
• Thickos in Hartlepool have still voted on Brexit, that is how stupid they are
• Post in response to the above: To be fair, it’s getting more and more difficult to think much else of people who still vote for the Tory party.
• Gave up on the majority of the public some time ago, we are awash with ignorant morons.
• The only people I’m blaming are the Tories and their utter contempt for the British public. If you buy into that sort of thing, that’s your look out.
• This pig-in-shit (Boris) can do no wrong for the majority of voters in this country at the moment; they don’t care about the lies because they know he is a liar.
• I blame the Tory’s and their supporters first and foremost. The electorate has fallen for a lie

To win elections you have to respect the elctorate.

Trying to appease the electorate lead us to Brexit. Better to stick to your principles and educate the electorate as to why that’s a good thing. Labour’s fault is that it doesn’t sell itself on its merits and beliefs.
It’s a Tory lie that the Labour Party disrespect the electorate.

 

[Bodian]

And yet I saw a man on BBC News this morning saying he voted Tory because Labour hasn't been building hospitals while the Tories have been in power Tell me, should I respect this man’s opinion or not question what on Earth he is on about?

Article in the Indie today: "The Tories, in a stroke of political genius, have punished people so much, they now vote Tory. The people of Hartlepool, like the people of almost everywhere else, have worked out that there might be more in it for them if they vote for the winners not the losers. They have voted Tory so that the pain might stop."

 

[Chicken Run]

Trying to appease the electorate lead us to Brexit. Better to stick to your principles and educate the electorate as to why that’s a good thing. Labour’s fault is that it doesn’t sell itself on its merits and beliefs.
It’s a Tory lie that the Labour Party disrespect the electorate.

How did that work out, educating the electorate since 2016?


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[wellquickwoody]

And yet I saw a man on BBC News this morning saying he voted Tory because Labour hasn't been building hospitals while the Tories have been in power Tell me, should I respect this man’s opinion and not question what on Earth he is on about?

You should walk away, internally shaking your head to yourself, and continue to campaign in a positive manner. You do not attack all opposition voters as being thickos. That way a few of them MIGHT just vote with rather than against you.

 

[The Clamp]

How did that work out, educating the electorate since 2016?


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Well yes, that was my point.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Trying to appease the electorate lead us to Brexit. Better to stick to your principles and educate the electorate as to why that’s a good thing. Labour’s fault is that it doesn’t sell itself on its merits and beliefs.
It’s a Tory lie that the Labour Party disrespect the electorate.

Educators don’t call their students thick....
The other problem with your post is that there many, many people in the electorate who disagree with you about the Tories and are also more intelligent than your good self. You are the one who brought intelligence levels into the debate.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Article in the Indie today: "The Tories, in a stroke of political genius, have punished people so much, they now vote Tory. The people of Hartlepool, like the people of almost everywhere else, have worked out that there might be more in it for them if they vote for the winners not the losers. They have voted Tory so that the pain might stop."

Well, at the least the people of Hartlepool now know they are very, very clever as well as being thick. Hope they aren't too confused.

 

[GT49er]

Well, at the least the people of Hartlepool now know they are very, very clever as well as being thick. Hope they aren't too confused.

Even if they were as thick as some people have called them. I doubt they'll be as confused as the Indie!

 

[Hampster Gull]

The left wing metropolitan view of the provincial working class, echoed by some on here, is contemptuous and sums up why the party is the shambles it is.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Owen Jones “the tory strategy is popular with Labour voters”. Doh. And they arent Labour voters, they are voters. If only the labour voters knew better

 

[Pavilionaire]

I get that Labour have made misjudgements and mistakes, but what are these Red Wall people who have switched to voting Tory actually getting? There are no more jobs, incomes haven't gone up, there are tariffs on imports and British exports, record deaths from Covid and plenty of sleaze.

 

[stewart12]

I get that Labour have made misjudgements and mistakes, but what are these Red Wall people who have switched to voting Tory actually getting? There are no more jobs, incomes haven't gone up, there are tariffs on imports and British exports, record deaths from Covid and plenty of sleaze.

I genuinely think that a large chunk of people simply don't care about any of the stuff you've listed. I'll personally never understand it but Johnson connects with these people. I think a lot of it comes down to positivity, Johnson will shout about everything being amazing (doesn't matter if it is or isn't) whilst waving a flag while the likes of Corbyn and Starmer, with the latter undoubtedly being more competent, spend a lot of time pointing out everything that's going wrong. People prefer to hear that stuff is going great. Life probably wasn't great in Hartlepool under a Labour government either. It was probably better but it's never going to be a wealthy area so in the minds of voters there what do Labour give them that shouty flag man doesn't?

 

[stewart12]

I'm a raging lefty (not aligned to any particular party) and have spent many years getting angry at this shower of shit government- especially while working in the charity sector where I'd see first hand the misery that they were piling on people. Guess what? It didn't get me anywhere. Getting frustrated with people voting for them didn't get me anywhere either.

You can call people "thick" all you want. Yep, education standards in parts of this country are crap and a lot of people aren't that bright and don't engage in political discourse, watch PMQ's etc. People who you may think are "thick" still get a vote and calling them thick will often lead to them doubling down on their views. Btw there's plenty of not especially bright people who vote for Labour, Lib Dem, Greens etc as well

I've tried really hard to understand people who vote Tory lately. Not hardcore posh old blokes who have voted for them all their lives and don't really think about it, more people who I wouldn't necessarily expect to vote for a right wing party. A common theme actually is that they're not really that fussed about what the tories stand for, it's often more that there are aspects of the left that completely repel them (a lot of those aspects are available to read on this thread) and have pushed them to the Tories- they're not even necessarily right wing or conservative and actually probably hold more centrist views but vote Tory because in their mind it's a marginally better option. A lot of discourse now has nothing to do with the traditional divides between right and left which were established on economic grounds but is now dominated by more social and moral arguments. A lot of the viewpoints of "the left" don't appeal to traditional working class communities and so they don't see their views represented by parties on the left

Labour are still the party of the larger cities- what I don't like is that this is seen as a bad thing. Sure you probably won't win elections by JUST appealing to city dwellers but there are a lot of social issues in large cities that you don't find elsewhere- poor housing, homelessness, poverty, crime (which is why I hate the term "metropolitan elite" especially when it comes out of the mouths of people educated at ETON) and these people still need representing. Labour still undoubtedly appeal to these people so perhaps they should focus their efforts in these areas?