[Politics] May 2021 local elections and Hartlepool by-election

[KeithDublin]

You might need to explain the Amber Rudd thing a bit further. You're saying that when they prevented her from speaking, they didn't actually prevent her from speaking?

Sorry, yes, I don't think I was very clear there. What I meant that Amber Rudd was prevented from speaking because of her involvement in Windrush, not for something she said. They weren't banning her because they were worried that she would say something offensive, but for what she did personally.

Her being banned wasn't anything to do with free speech, another speaker could have come along and said exactly what Amber Rudd would have said, and there wouldn't have been a problem.

I hope that makes more sense

 

[dsr-burnley]

Sorry, yes, I don't think I was very clear there. What I meant that Amber Rudd was prevented from speaking because of her involvement in Windrush, not for something she said. They weren't banning her because they were worried that she would say something offensive, but for what she did personally.

Her being banned wasn't anything to do with free speech, another speaker could have come along and said exactly what Amber Rudd would have said, and there wouldn't have been a problem.

I hope that makes more sense

It makes more sense, but I don't agree with much of it. They still refused to hear her because they thought a relatively small aspect of her life didn't meet their "high" standards.

Obviously it makes it worse that they didn't tell her she was "cancelled" until she turned up. All that proved was that being intelligent doesn't stop the students from being stupid as well as disgustingly rude.

 

[KeithDublin]

It makes more sense, but I don't agree with much of it. They still refused to hear her because they thought a relatively small aspect of her life didn't meet their "high" standards.

Obviously it makes it worse that they didn't tell her she was "cancelled" until she turned up. All that proved was that being intelligent doesn't stop the students from being stupid as well as disgustingly rude.

I'd argue that what Amber Rudd did was far more disgusting than what the students did but that's beside the point, the point is freedom of speech, and I'm yet to hear an example of something you can't say at a university etc

 

[dsr-burnley]

I'd argue that what Amber Rudd did was far more disgusting than what the students did but that's beside the point, the point is freedom of speech, and I'm yet to hear an example of something you can't say at a university etc

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/02/16/10-victims-of-campus-cancel-culture/

 

[Eeyore]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/02/16/10-victims-of-campus-cancel-culture/

I never read Spiked. Right wing agenda. I never read The Canary for the opposite reason.

I seem to have a long 'never read' list these days.

 

[KeithDublin]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/02/16/10-victims-of-campus-cancel-culture/

A few things to point out here is how this website frames the "cancelling" take Noah Carl for example: It's framed that he's banned for being right wing, where in reality he was thrown out for poor research methods and use of data.

Take Jordan Peterson who it's framed as being cancelled 'because he stood next to someone in a t shirt', where in fact he's still a professor at Toronto University (so, not much of a cancelling) and the backlash against him stems from his transphobia. He's basically someone who makes money from controversy.

Most of the others on the list appear due to transphobic statements.

Let me ask you a question: Do you agree with hate speech?

There are some free speech people who believe that people should be able to say anything they want, including hate speech.

I personally think that hate speech should be banned.

These incidents of possible transphobic hate speech is definitely a bit of a gray area, and I don't know enough about the cases to comment.

However, if all you can come up with are these examples, then would you really call 'cancel culture' a genuine issue in university (or anywhere) or something that been blown out of proportion by the right wing?

 

[BadFish]

A few things to point out here is how this website frames the "cancelling" take Noah Carl for example: It's framed that he's banned for being right wing, where in reality he was thrown out for poor research methods and use of data.

Take Jordan Peterson who it's framed as being cancelled 'because he stood next to someone in a t shirt', where in fact he's still a professor at Toronto University (so, not much of a cancelling) and the backlash against him stems from his transphobia. He's basically someone who makes money from controversy.

Most of the others on the list appear due to transphobic statements.

Let me ask you a question: Do you agree with hate speech?

There are some free speech people who believe that people should be able to say anything they want, including hate speech.

I personally think that hate speech should be banned.

These incidents of possible transphobic hate speech is definitely a bit of a gray area, and I don't know enough about the cases to comment.

However, if all you can come up with are these examples, then would you really call 'cancel culture' a genuine issue in university (or anywhere) or something that been blown out of proportion by the right wing?

If this is the correct answer (it is) then we have to question the motives of people who blow this out of proportion.

I think it can be easily argued that the reason they do this is to try and bring to a halt people calling out hate speech. The cancelling of the calling out of hate speech if you will is of course a huge affront to the notion of freedom of speech (something that these bozo's claim to hold dear.

The way I see it is that there are people on the extremes of these discussions who aim to shut down any discussion or ideas that they don't agree with. Neither are interested in a discussion and neither are interested in learning from any interaction with those they disagree with. It seems that most often discussion are hijacked by these wombats to further their own agendas.

They don't , of course, recognise this in themselves and constantly blame each other for the problem.

 

[wellquickwoody]

A few things to point out here is how this website frames the "cancelling" take Noah Carl for example: It's framed that he's banned for being right wing, where in reality he was thrown out for poor research methods and use of data.

Take Jordan Peterson who it's framed as being cancelled 'because he stood next to someone in a t shirt', where in fact he's still a professor at Toronto University (so, not much of a cancelling) and the backlash against him stems from his transphobia. He's basically someone who makes money from controversy.

Most of the others on the list appear due to transphobic statements.

Let me ask you a question: Do you agree with hate speech?

There are some free speech people who believe that people should be able to say anything they want, including hate speech.

I personally think that hate speech should be banned.

These incidents of possible transphobic hate speech is definitely a bit of a gray area, and I don't know enough about the cases to comment.

However, if all you can come up with are these examples, then would you really call 'cancel culture' a genuine issue in university (or anywhere) or something that been blown out of proportion by the right wing?

The term ‘hate speech’ is subjective. Should you ban things that have no clearly defined parameters?

 

[dsr-burnley]

Most of the others on the list appear due to transphobic statements.

Let me ask you a question: Do you agree with hate speech?

There are some free speech people who believe that people should be able to say anything they want, including hate speech.

I personally think that hate speech should be banned.

These incidents of possible transphobic hate speech is definitely a bit of a gray area, and I don't know enough about the cases to comment.

However, if all you can come up with are these examples, then would you really call 'cancel culture' a genuine issue in university (or anywhere) or something that been blown out of proportion by the right wing?

That's a loaded question. First, define "hate speech". Also, define "transphobia".

(Specifically, is it transphobic to say that people with Y chromosomes should not play women's sport?)

 

[KeithDublin]

That's a loaded question. First, define "hate speech". Also, define "transphobia".

(Specifically, is it transphobic to say that people with Y chromosomes should not play women's sport?)

It's not designed to be a loaded question
hate speech is any speech that impinges on the freedoms of someone
Transphobia - anything that is said that impinges on the rights of the trans community
Specifically - I agree that it's not necessarily transphobic, which is why I said it was a gray area

You did provide an incident of cancel culture, I agree that some of those cases appear to be nonsense, and it would be better to talk. and as Mr. Badfish says there are extremists on both sides. I still see cancel culture and wokeness being mainly a construct of the right, and not really based in any reality.

 

[dsr-burnley]

It's not designed to be a loaded question
hate speech is any speech that impinges on the freedoms of someone
Transphobia - anything that is said that impinges on the rights of the trans community
Specifically - I agree that it's not necessarily transphobic, which is why I said it was a gray area

You did provide an incident of cancel culture, I agree that some of those cases appear to be nonsense, and it would be better to talk. and as Mr. Badfish says there are extremists on both sides. I still see cancel culture and wokeness being mainly a construct of the right, and not really based in any reality.

OK then - if I say that people are born male and female, and males have Y chromosomes and females don't, would that count as hate speech?

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Having a weak Labour party in opposition may seem like a godsend to the Tory party, but in reality not having a healthy opposition harms the whole country as it fails to provide the necessary checks and balances to hold the governing party to account. A weak Labour party together with a combination of "I'm alright Jack" and voter apathy and indifference will allow the Tory party to continue unchallenged for the foreseeable future.

 

[KeithDublin]

OK then - if I say that people are born male and female, and males have Y chromosomes and females don't, would that count as hate speech?

Anything that's rooted in a genuine curiosity or question regarding trans people = not transphobic. Anything that demonises the trans community = transphobic (in my opinion, I do not speak for the trans community)

So for example, as you mentioned before, discussing whether or not trans people should compete in certain sports - probably (or possibly) not transphobic.

Complaining about trans people in bathroom = definitely transphobic.

 

[Chicken Run]

I'll let you off tonight, its been a rough day for Labour and you have several more years to work out where you went wrong before finally mounting a serious challenge for power!

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Christ on a Bike, if the Tories get another majority in 2024 then you might as well copy this entire thread! Nothing new will be said [emoji23]





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[Wellesley]

Women died so I could have a vote, so I never waste it.

Wow. They must have been really fond of you. My condolences.

 

[Randy McNob]

The never-ending myopic struggle for control of the Labour Party, the obsession, it only benefits all the other parties especially the Tories and SNP.

It’s a miracle when looking back that Blair, Campbell, Mandelson et al, managed to contain it for such a sustained period.

 

[Billy the Fish]

If this is the correct answer (it is) then we have to question the motives of people who blow this out of proportion.

I think it can be easily argued that the reason they do this is to try and bring to a halt people calling out hate speech. The cancelling of the calling out of hate speech if you will is of course a huge affront to the notion of freedom of speech (something that these bozo's claim to hold dear.

The way I see it is that there are people on the extremes of these discussions who aim to shut down any discussion or ideas that they don't agree with. Neither are interested in a discussion and neither are interested in learning from any interaction with those they disagree with. It seems that most often discussion are hijacked by these wombats to further their own agendas.

They don't , of course, recognise this in themselves and constantly blame each other for the problem.

Define hate speech.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

So for example, as you mentioned before, discussing whether or not trans people should compete in certain sports - probably (or possibly) not transphobic.

Complaining about trans people in bathroom = definitely transphobic.

Good God. If a woman that has previously been abused but complains about men in a woman's toilet she is transphobic? If ever a conversation needed adults in the room it's this one. Here's one example of where this well meaning but flawed thinking leads.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ho-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

 

[BadFish]

Define hate speech.

https://googlethatforyou.com?q=hate speech definition

 

[cunning fergus]

Anything that's rooted in a genuine curiosity or question regarding trans people = not transphobic. Anything that demonises the trans community = transphobic (in my opinion, I do not speak for the trans community)

So for example, as you mentioned before, discussing whether or not trans people should compete in certain sports - probably (or possibly) not transphobic.

Complaining about trans people in bathroom = definitely transphobic.

A couple of questions.

If a man is using a women’s toilet and which is unnerving for women that subsequently complain, is that transphobic conduct on behalf of the women?
If a man is using a women’s toilet but wearing a dress and which is unnerving women that subsequently complain is that transphobic conduct on behalf of the women?

You may say well context is everything here what is unnerving for women about men using a women’s toilet......and blah blah blah.

It’s exactly this kind of issue that has made Labour and it’s supporters irrelevant. Most people think trans people are just mad........fruits of the forest transvestites in old money.

That may seem a derogatory reference but then we live in times when even supposedly mainstream broadcasters considers the term “women” to be offensive, a decision probably made by a man.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/30/...wellness/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

Labour are obsessed with this sort of issue, which the vast majority of people think is simply an irrelevance. They will remain an irrelevance till they get a grip on this total buffoonery.