Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[daveinplzen]

Kicked off at a demo in the old town square this afternoon. Didnt know until about an hour ago, and wasnt sure how true it was, but apparently it did.

https://www.expats.cz/czech-news/ar...st-covid-measures-clash-with-police-in-prague

 

[nicko31]

The Australian point of view...

[TWEET]1317362188097519616[/TWEET]

In fairness Australia has the benefit of geographical isolation and a relatively small population, very different to any country in Europe. They have shut their borders and it seems eventually they will be covid free, Victoria has had a brutal lockdown it seems. The VIC / NSW border looks to be open in about a month if all goes well.

All good on one hand, but no one can leave the country and no visitors are possible for the foreseeable, except maybe to New Zealand.

 

[sydney]

In fairness Australia has the benefit of geographical isolation and a relatively small population, very different to any country in Europe. They have shut their borders and it seems eventually they will be covid free, Victoria has had a brutal lockdown it seems. The VIC / NSW border looks to be open in about a month if all goes well.

All good on one hand, but no one can leave the country and no visitors are possible for the foreseeable, except maybe to New Zealand.

Although an Air NZ plane landed in Sydney yesterday and kiwi passengers were flown on to Victoria , South Australia and Western Australia without prior arrangement and without consent from the State govt' concerned , so this is a glaring example of the federal govt. defacating into the laps of state govts who have border restrictions in place .....Morrison is getting panned and rightly so.Not that i'm a huge covid fan but rules is rules for one and all ....no favours , no exceptions.

 

[Solid at the back]

Wales being proactive whilst Boris dithers and delays.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Wales being proactive whilst Boris dithers and delays.

Did Drakeford claim they would run out of the 5000 beds at the nightingale?

 

[Solid at the back]

Did Drakeford claim they would run out of the 5000 beds at the nightingale?

Is that a rhetorical question? Have to commend him whilst he takes decisive action (although, controversial in the view of a minority), our bumbling PM struggles to get his words out and is constantly making U turns.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

How can it even be a thing that politicians are haggling over which tier to place an area into in a national health emergency? It's obscene

 

[beorhthelm]

Wales being proactive whilst Boris dithers and delays.

there are many districts in England with reducing rates, some even 0 cases. should they be put into lockdown because northern cities are so high? or should we have a regional, local approach?

 

[nicko31]

Wales being proactive whilst Boris dithers and delays.

Again devolved powers seem to be taking the leader

He needs to follow suit NOW before it gets spread all over the country over half term. Feels like early March again, one of those moments when real leadership is needed.

 

[Chicken Run]

Again devolved powers seem to be taking the leader

He needs to follow suit NOW before it gets spread all over the country over half term. Feels like early March again, one of those moments when real leadership is needed.

A hard lockdown has proved it works in Leicester, that’s right It did work didn’t it.... oh maybe not
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/...ter-leicestershires-7-day-coronavirus-4619556

 

[loz]

A hard lockdown has proved it works in Leicester, that’s right It did work didn’t it.... oh maybe not
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/...ter-leicestershires-7-day-coronavirus-4619556

Exactly, you can suppress it for a week or two but as sure as eggs is eggs it will come back until either there is herd immunity or there is a vaccine or it burns its self out...its a virus like 1000s of others we as humans have had over millennia, quite why we have taken a different strategy with this one I dont know. Once the 1st 3 month lock down was seen to be unsuccessful we should have learnt our lessons.

And now this is happening.

Non-Covid causes
Between March and September 2020, there were 24,387 more deaths in England than expected in private homes, and 1,644 in Wales - the large majority did not involve Covid-19.

Of these, an extra 1,705 men died from heart disease in their own homes in England compared with the average number over the previous five years.

This is 25% more than normal, and in Wales there was a similar rise - of 22.7%.

Over the same period, deaths in hospitals from heart disease went down by about a quarter in England and Wales.

During the pandemic, around 1,400 more women than usual died at home from dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

While deaths from these conditions also increased in care homes, hospital deaths from dementia decreased by 40% in England and 25% in Wales.

The ONS figures show that deaths in private homes have been above the five-year average since the peak of the pandemic in early April, while deaths in hospitals have been lower than normal since the start of June.

'One third extra'
Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, chairman of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said that equated to an extra 100 people dying at home every day.

"Usually around 300 people die each day in their homes in England and Wales," he commented.

"The latest ONS analysis confirms that even after the peak of the epidemic this has stayed at around 400 a day and shows no sign of declining. That's one-third extra, very few of which are from Covid."

He suggested these deaths would normally have occurred in hospital.

"People have either been reluctant to go, discouraged from attending, or the services have been disrupted," Prof Spiegelhalter added.

"It is unclear how many of these lives could have been extended had they gone to hospital, for example among the 450 extra deaths from cardiac arrhythmias."

 

[CHAPPERS]

Exactly, you can suppress it for a week or two but as sure as eggs is eggs it will come back until either there is herd immunity or there is a vaccine or it burns its self out...its a virus like 1000s of others we as humans have had over millennia, quite why we have taken a different strategy with this one I dont know. Once the 1st 3 month lock down was seen to be unsuccessful we should have learnt our lessons.

And now this is happening.

Non-Covid causes
Between March and September 2020, there were 24,387 more deaths in England than expected in private homes, and 1,644 in Wales - the large majority did not involve Covid-19.

Of these, an extra 1,705 men died from heart disease in their own homes in England compared with the average number over the previous five years.

This is 25% more than normal, and in Wales there was a similar rise - of 22.7%.

Over the same period, deaths in hospitals from heart disease went down by about a quarter in England and Wales.

During the pandemic, around 1,400 more women than usual died at home from dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

While deaths from these conditions also increased in care homes, hospital deaths from dementia decreased by 40% in England and 25% in Wales.

The ONS figures show that deaths in private homes have been above the five-year average since the peak of the pandemic in early April, while deaths in hospitals have been lower than normal since the start of June.

'One third extra'
Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, chairman of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said that equated to an extra 100 people dying at home every day.

"Usually around 300 people die each day in their homes in England and Wales," he commented.

"The latest ONS analysis confirms that even after the peak of the epidemic this has stayed at around 400 a day and shows no sign of declining. That's one-third extra, very few of which are from Covid."

He suggested these deaths would normally have occurred in hospital.

"People have either been reluctant to go, discouraged from attending, or the services have been disrupted," Prof Spiegelhalter added.

"It is unclear how many of these lives could have been extended had they gone to hospital, for example among the 450 extra deaths from cardiac arrhythmias."

So what are you saying?

People are dying of Covid and people are dying at home because they won't go to hospital. Lockdown doesn't stop people from going to hospital.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Is that a rhetorical question? Have to commend him whilst he takes decisive action (although, controversial in the view of a minority), our bumbling PM struggles to get his words out and is constantly making U turns.

I only heard the back end of it

That’s some quality scaremongering if he did say it

 

[nicko31]

A hard lockdown has proved it works in Leicester, that’s right It did work didn’t it.... oh maybe not
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/...ter-leicestershires-7-day-coronavirus-4619556

Yep I hear you.

A 2 week lockdown will be no silver bullet, infact I don't expect there is be any noticeable decent in numbers, just slow the increase

Its like stopping an oil tanker, it won't stop it but will buy some time.

We may need multiple lockdowns to keep control this winter, maybe another at Christmas

 

[loz]

So what are you saying?

People are dying of Covid and people are dying at home because they won't go to hospital. Lockdown doesn't stop people from going to hospital.

I am not saying anything, this is on the BBC news page. Lock down certainly does stop loads of people going to hospital, a lot of older folk are scared out of their minds at the moment and just dont go out let alone to a hospital.

 

[BLOCK F]

Wales being proactive whilst Boris dithers and delays.

Another view could be that ' Drakeford panics whilst PM takes a more considered and targeted approach.'
And I don't often say such things about Boris!
Do you really think that a couple of weeks of lockdown in Wales is really going to achieve anything lasting?
Why on earth would we shut down parts of this country that have very low rates of infection, put more jobs at risk, and create all the manifold problems that go with a lockdown to try and solve a problem in the north.
I do wonder what percentage of those who are calling for a national lockdown have a secure income and are either retired, public sector workers or others,who for whatever reason, their incomes/jobs are not in jeopardy.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I am not saying anything, this is on the BBC news page. Lock down certainly does stop loads of people going to hospital, a lot of older folk are scared out of their minds at the moment and just dont go out let alone to a hospital.

So we shouldn't have lockdowns, as people end of in hospital either way, and then people who are scared to go to hospital now will be more likely to go when the pandemic is uncontrolled? Isn't the answer to getting scared people to hospital the exact opposite of what you are saying, which is total hard lockdown until a vaccine is distributed. ICU in Manchester hitting capacity very soon as it is.

I'm not trying to be clever, just can't see a way to get those afraid of going to hospital, to hospital, apart from eradication.

 

[BLOCK F]

So we shouldn't have lockdowns, as people end of in hospital either way, and then people who are scared to go to hospital now will be more likely to go when the pandemic is uncontrolled? Isn't the answer to getting scared people to hospital the exact opposite of what you are saying, which is total hard lockdown until a vaccine is distributed. ICU in Manchester hitting capacity very soon as it is.

I'm not trying to be clever, just can't see a way to get those afraid of going to hospital, to hospital, apart from eradication.

I am 72 and not in the least bit scared of going to hospital or a GP's surgery. There are, of course, some who are scared, but there are some who can't get to a hospital because they are not being referred by their GP's and in several cases I know where we live, they have difficulty actually getting to see a GP unless they kick up a stink.(not all ailments can be suitably diagnosed over the phone)
The point I am making is that it isn't always reluctance on the patient's behalf that is leading to lower hospital visits.
P.S.Forgive me if I am missing the point here as I haven't read the whole of the discussion.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I am 72 and not in the least bit scared of going to hospital or a GP's surgery. There are, of course, some who are scared, but there are some who can't get to a hospital because they are not being referred by their GP's and in several cases I know where we live, they have difficulty actually getting to see a GP unless they kick up a stink.
The point I am making is that it isn't always reluctance on the patient's behalf that is leading to lower hospital visits.
P.S.Forgive me if I am missing the point here as I haven't read all the discussion.

Not at all, and a very good point that I hadn't considered. Does seem like another case that cannot be solved unless Covid can be eradicated though.

 

[BLOCK F]

Not at all, and a very good point that I hadn't considered. Does seem like another case that cannot be solved unless Covid can be eradicated though.

It really is a bummer.
I have had experience of both the good and the not so good of the 'NHS during Covid saga.'
Briefly, I suffered from nasty stomach pains for a number of weeks and was urgently referred for an ultra sound scan. This happened very quickly and I was seen in a day or two. The ultra sound showed that I had an abdominal aortic aneurysm and I was sent straight to A&E. Had blood tests, ECG, CT scan etc.All very efficient and although they didn't find out the cause of my pains, it served the purpose of discovering a potentially very serious issue.
That was the good, but the bad is that my appointment to ENT has been put off from next week to next January and my GP's request for me to have an endoscopy has been 'loaded but not booked'............I may get one by Christmas if I am lucky, so the department informed me.
Such is life at the moment, my stomach pains probably aren't life threatening, but they can be very debilitating and under normal circumstances may well have been seen to by now. A lot of routine treatments are being pushed further into the future and it is to be hoped that few of these result in more serious issues down the line.