Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Bozza]

what crippling lockdown? half the country? some pubs and social business will be restricted further, cant meet in other peoples houses in 3 cities. as usual Mail screams scares stories. what they could report is how well the restrictions are in containing the worst effects of the virus.

I've noticed a small demographic on here keep posting links to the Daily Mail. If you are having to resort to that, you've probably already lost.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Has she told you their average age and their underlying health status? Genuine question.

Why does this make any difference if they are sick enough to require hospital treatment?

 

[Springal]

Shame on this corrupt Tory government. Unbelievable how brazen they are. £346M in PPE contracts to a company with no assets and used to make websites ?! Oh and most of that PPE is not up to standard ...

http://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1317012024560332801

 

[loz]

Why does this make any difference if they are sick enough to require hospital treatment?

This time of year there is a big uptick of respiratory illnesses, so I suppose what we need to be sure of is that they are Covid related and is it the over 70s ? This is known as the Germ term in schools and hospitals and also is this the same numbers as most years.

We seem to have forgotten that in 2017 /18 flu season hospitals were really overloaded and patience were dying on trolleys in hospital corridors we were being shown these horrible pictures on the TV . We just thankfully have not seen that yet and hopefully wont.

 

[highflyer]

This time of year there is a big uptick of respiratory illnesses, so I suppose what we need to be sure of is that they are Covid related and is it the over 70s ? This is known as the Germ term in schools and hospitals and also is this the same numbers as most years.

We seem to have forgotten that in 2017 /18 flu season hospitals were really overloaded and patience were dying on trolleys in hospital corridors we were being shown these horrible pictures on the TV . We just thankfully have not seen that yet and hopefully wont.

This is exactly what we need to avoid- coronavirus cases spiralling at the same time as hospitals are normally overloaded

Cases numbers across the country are accelerating again, and the South East (as expected) now beginning to rise faster and faster.

Where Liverpool is now, I'd suspect Brighton will be in 6-8 weeks.

The numbers seriously ill and dying in the north are as you'd expect from cases a few weeks ago and will certainly increase rapidly over the next 2-3 weeks, no matter what. And the south is following the north. It's going to get bad, and by the time it does it will be too late to stop it getting worse.

I can't see how anyone can think that ignoring all of this, allowing it to rise out of control is somehow going to to help those needing other forms of treatment (please explain that logic, those that have argued this). Every medical practioner I have heard speak has pleaded for people to stick to the rules so as to bring community transmission down and reduce the pressure on the NHS and care staff.

But no - F*ck that we say. What do they know? Deaths are low NOW, so let's go to the pub, meet our mates, take it home with us and then, when things go tits up we'll 'clap for our heroes' to show what good people we are.

F*ck that. The Daily Mail is, and always has been, deeply irrisponsible, misleading and dangerous.

Weare heading for a full lockdown, and if there was any sense or science leading us, we'd do it now, for a couple of weeks, to save the bigger pain later. But we are too f*cking stupid. Listening to idiots because they tell us what we want to hear.

We didn't need to be in this position, but our government, and the british people, have f*cked it up royally when we had the chance to prepare for what we KNEW was coming. So tough sh*t. We've acted like children and now it's time to act like adults and deal with the situation AS IT IS, not as we want it to be.

I am not feeling in a positive mood today, i case it wasn't clear.

 

[Poojah]

This is exactly what we need to avoid- coronavirus cases spiralling at the same time as hospitals are normally overloaded

Cases numbers across the country are accelerating again, and the South East (as expected) now beginning to rise faster and faster.

Where Liverpool is now, I'd suspect Brighton will be in 6-8 weeks.

The numbers seriously ill and dying in the north are as you'd expect from cases a few weeks ago and will certainly increase rapidly over the next 2-3 weeks, no matter what. And the south is following the north. It's going to get bad, and by the time it does it will be too late to stop it getting worse.

I can't see how anyone can think that ignoring all of this, allowing it to rise out of control is somehow going to to help those needing other forms of treatment (please explain that logic, those that have argued this). Every medical practioner I have heard speak has pleaded for people to stick to the rules so as to bring community transmission down and reduce the pressure on the NHS and care staff.

But no - F*ck that we say. What do they know? Deaths are low NOW, so let's go to the pub, meet our mates, take it home with us and then, when things go tits up we'll 'clap for our heroes' to show what good people we are.

F*ck that. The Daily Mail is, and always has been, deeply irrisponsible, misleading and dangerous.

Weare heading for a full lockdown, and if there was any sense or science leading us, we'd do it now, for a couple of weeks, to save the bigger pain later. But we are too f*cking stupid. Listening to idiots because they tell us what we want to hear.

We didn't need to be in this position, but our government, and the british people, have f*cked it up royally when we had the chance to prepare for what we KNEW was coming. So tough sh*t. We've acted like children and now it's time to act like adults and deal with the situation AS IT IS, not as we want it to be.

I am not feeling in a positive mood today, i case it wasn't clear.

I fear we’re in trouble as a nation, personally. On the one hand, there is a reluctance to go into another full lockdown for understandable economic reasons, but the consensus among experts appears to be that some watered down equivalent isn’t going to be effective in bringing the numbers down.

Then there’s compliance. People, young people especially are fed up. The situation is not being taken as seriously as it was in March. I had a call from a guy who is due to fit some flooring for me to let me know that he has Covid (fair enough), and to ask whether he was still alright to come and do the job (not so much). I told him I wasn’t comfortable with that, and his response seemed to be that I was being awkward - he’d done a job for a family yesterday and they’d just stayed out of the way upstairs. Madness.

I spoke to a colleague based in York yesterday, an affluent, well educated guy. They’re on tier 2 status now, but he was still planning on meeting up with some mates in their house at the weekend. “If we get caught out I’ll just pay the £200 fine, fúck it, I can afford it”. I put to him that whilst he could afford the fine, he might inadvertently kill a couple of grannies. “I won’t be going near any grannies mate, so don’t worry”, he said, somewhat missing the point about how human transmissible viruses work.

What we have now is a disorganised incoherent leadership and a fatigued, weary and ill trusting population. It’s going to be a deadly mix.

 

[darkwolf666]

This is not a pop at you, but a genuine observatuon. Why is it that people make comments like this, when it backs up their own point of view, while the rest of the time they believe the authors are wrong.

I think there is a name for this, but can't quite remember what it is ..

I've remembered it now, its confirmation bias ..!

 

[crabface]

I've noticed a small demographic on here keep posting links to the Daily Mail. If you are having to resort to that, you've probably already lost.

I posted it in the Coronavirus good news thread before i saw it posted here as i rarely dive in here, i wouldnt normally be an advocate of the Daily Mail. But it is nice to see some mainstream media not try to scare the living day lights out of people. The Mail were hugely responsible for doing this early on in the Pandemic

There is enough people with major anxiety and stress from all this they dont need to be constantly seeing doom and gloom articles all over the TV and newspapers 24/7

 

[BLOCK F]

This is exactly what we need to avoid- coronavirus cases spiralling at the same time as hospitals are normally overloaded

Cases numbers across the country are accelerating again, and the South East (as expected) now beginning to rise faster and faster.

Where Liverpool is now, I'd suspect Brighton will be in 6-8 weeks.

The numbers seriously ill and dying in the north are as you'd expect from cases a few weeks ago and will certainly increase rapidly over the next 2-3 weeks, no matter what. And the south is following the north. It's going to get bad, and by the time it does it will be too late to stop it getting worse.

I can't see how anyone can think that ignoring all of this, allowing it to rise out of control is somehow going to to help those needing other forms of treatment (please explain that logic, those that have argued this). Every medical practioner I have heard speak has pleaded for people to stick to the rules so as to bring community transmission down and reduce the pressure on the NHS and care staff.

But no - F*ck that we say. What do they know? Deaths are low NOW, so let's go to the pub, meet our mates, take it home with us and then, when things go tits up we'll 'clap for our heroes' to show what good people we are.

F*ck that. The Daily Mail is, and always has been, deeply irrisponsible, misleading and dangerous.

Weare heading for a full lockdown, and if there was any sense or science leading us, we'd do it now, for a couple of weeks, to save the bigger pain later. But we are too f*cking stupid. Listening to idiots because they tell us what we want to hear.

We didn't need to be in this position, but our government, and the british people, have f*cked it up royally when we had the chance to prepare for what we KNEW was coming. So tough sh*t. We've acted like children and now it's time to act like adults and deal with the situation AS IT IS, not as we want it to be.

I am not feeling in a positive mood today, i case it wasn't clear.

No, you certainly aren't sounding like you are in a positive mood today.
There was an interesting article in the comments section of the Times today and the headline was, 'If the government wants to forge a national consensus behind its pandemic strategy, it needs to be more transparent about the economic and health costs.
The article went on to quote Prof. Graham Medley, professor of infectious disease modelling at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and a member of Sage. He was worried that the debate over the appropriate coronavirus response was being overly dominated by scientists and said: 'While scientists can ensure that any strategies are underpinned by the best evidence and research, they should have no greater say in them than economists, ethicists, historians and the wider public.' Whether or not one agrees with this is another matter. However, the following points were made by Sage in the minutes of its September 21st meeting.' All the interventions considered have associated costs in terms of health and wellbeing.....Policymakers will need to consider analysis of economic impacts and the associated harms alongside the epidemiological assessment."
Basically, as most people realise, it isn't as straightforward as just shutting down the country for however long, the wider picture must be looked at and hugely difficult judgements have to be made.
I believe it was Chris Whitty who once said, 'my job is a lot easier than that of those who have to make the policies."

 

[Yoda]

Then there’s compliance. People, young people especially are fed up. The situation is not being taken as seriously as it was in March. I had a call from a guy who is due to fit some flooring for me to let me know that he has Covid (fair enough), and to ask whether he was still alright to come and do the job (not so much). I told him I wasn’t comfortable with that, and his response seemed to be that I was being awkward - he’d done a job for a family yesterday and they’d just stayed out of the way upstairs. Madness.

And here is the crux of the matter. There are too many people being tested positive with Covid, than cannot afford to self isolate (mostly in many northern areas where spread is still wild). These people need supporting properly, not being given the choice between staying at home on SSP for 2 weeks earning only about £95 per week, and not being able to pay bills, rent/mortgage, food etc. Or going out and continuing to work earning a normal living that would cover their normal day to day expenses.

I know someone who lives in Durham that is self employed. His profits margin wasn't high enough during lockdown to claim government support and resorted to having to having to sell stuff on e-bay to make ends meat. If he were to get infected (symptomatic or not), I don't think he could afford to not work for two weeks.

 

[highflyer]

No, you certainly aren't sounding like you are in a positive mood today.
There was an interesting article in the comments section of the Times today and the headline was, 'If the government wants to forge a national consensus behind its pandemic strategy, it needs to be more transparent about the economic and health costs.
The article went on to quote Prof. Graham Medley, professor of infectious disease modelling at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and a member of Sage. He was worried that the debate over the appropriate coronavirus response was being overly dominated by scientists and said: 'While scientists can ensure that any strategies are underpinned by the best evidence and research, they should have no greater say in them than economists, ethicists, historians and the wider public.' Whether or not one agrees with this is another matter. However, the following points were made by Sage in the minutes of its September 21st meeting.' All the interventions considered have associated costs in terms of health and wellbeing.....Policymakers will need to consider analysis of economic impacts and the associated harms alongside the epidemiological assessment."
Basically, as most people realise, it isn't as straightforward as just shutting down the country for however long, the wider picture must be looked at and hugely difficult judgements have to be made.
I believe it was Chris Whitty who once said, 'my job is a lot easier than that of those who have to make the policies."

Of course there is a balance. And difficult decisions.

But right now, the reality is that numbers are going up and accelerating and spreading. And the actions taken so far are not working.
My fear is that the decisions from here may not be led by a clear plan, consistently implemented, but by Daily Mail-led sentiment, individualism and magical thinking. I don't have any problem with Sweden, whether it turns out right or wrong long term it is based on a clear plan, a consistent approach and the government have got the population to buy into it. Same for New Zealand. Different approach, but a plan that suits New Zealand and has been consistenly implemented. Grown up stuff in both cases.

By contrast, the UK feels like a bunch of children being led by some irresponsible teenagers. And I feel it won't end well.

BTW - I totally agree that part of the soluation must be suppirting people to stay at home when posutive and targeted support for vulnerable small business. And that means admitting that we can afford it now (we can) but at some point in the future it will mean increasing taxes on the wealthy

 

[BLOCK F]

Of course there is a balance. And difficult decisions.

But right now, the reality is that numbers are going up and accelerating and spreading. And the actions taken so far are not working.
My fear is that the decisions from here may not be led by a clear plan, consistently implemented, but by Daily Mail-led sentiment, individualism and magical thinking. I don't have any problem with Sweden, whether it turns out right or wrong long term it is based on a clear plan, a consistent approach and the government have got the population to buy into it. Same for New Zealand. Different approach, but a plan that suits New Zealand and has been consistenly implemented. Grown up stuff in both cases.

By contrast, the UK feels like a bunch of children being led by some irresponsible teenagers. And I feel it won't end well.

From what I understand, I believe France and UK are attempting to follow a similar path to each other in pursuing a strategy of local lockdowns in an effort to avoid the catastrophe of another national lockdown (I paraphrase the Times).It remains to be seen whether or not this works, but on a personal level, I believe it is the right thing to dthers will agree or disagree.......surprise, surprise:: The Times says that the longer the crisis goes on, the more important it is that society finds a way to live with the virus rather than going from lockdown to lockdown and I believe this is what Johnson and Macron are aiming to do, hence the halfway house approach.
Whatever happens, unless an effective vaccine is found pretty damn' soon or the wretched virus 'blows itself out', we are in for shitty times ahead for heaven knows how long. A desperately depressing thought for everybody.

 

[darkwolf666]

Of course there is a balance. And difficult decisions.

But right now, the reality is that numbers are going up and accelerating and spreading. And the actions taken so far are not working.
My fear is that the decisions from here may not be led by a clear plan, consistently implemented, but by Daily Mail-led sentiment, individualism and magical thinking. I don't have any problem with Sweden, whether it turns out right or wrong long term it is based on a clear plan, a consistent approach and the government have got the population to buy into it. Same for New Zealand. Different approach, but a plan that suits New Zealand and has been consistenly implemented. Grown up stuff in both cases.

By contrast, the UK feels like a bunch of children being led by some irresponsible teenagers. And I feel it won't end well.

BTW - I totally agree that part of the soluation must be suppirting people to stay at home when posutive and targeted support for vulnerable small business. And that means admitting that we can afford it now (we can) but at some point in the future it will mean increasing taxes on the wealthy

I was with you all the way, until the few underlined words, as we all know the brunt of the cost of this will be borne by the poor, more austerity, more cuts, more services slashed, more knighthoods for the Government cronies and advisors. That's basically how these things work I'm afraid...

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

HMGOV are far from blameless, but all these 24 Hour Party People who thought Covid was nowt to do with them have basically shat on their own community's doorstep. Would be grand if somebody in a position of power had the balls to call them out publicly on their behaviour

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

German courts overturn the curfew law

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

So this is only 1 example and I’m not claiming it to be country wide or anything other than 1 manager potentially lying

But, he claims that if we go into full lockdown again supermarkets will be asking for money from the Gov to stay open again and pay the staff more during it and compensation for the extra store changes needed- I guess danger money of sorts

All the main ones are together in asking for it apparently.

 

[beorhthelm]

So this is only 1 example and I’m not claiming it to be country wide or anything other than 1 manager potentially lying

But, he claims that if we go into full lockdown again supermarkets will be asking for money from the Gov to stay open again and pay the staff more during it and compensation for the extra store changes needed- I guess danger money of sorts

All the main ones are together in asking for it apparently.

id call shenanigans, on basis supermarkets need no tangible changes (screens already fitted, some tape/stand apart signs still around), and more importantly, they were hiring tens of thousands to cope with the extra business. they did really well at handling the lockdown, would be a shame if they played up for some hand outs.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Just watching it live... 'So. You feckless Manc c***s. You're killing your nan cos u just wanna paaarty! Or if you're not killing your own nan, you're certainly contributing towards killing somebody else's nan'

If any politician of any persuasion were being in any way honest, that's what they should ACTUALLY be saying

 

[e77]

Tory MP in rare good work shocker

[tweet] 1317046902605729792[/tweet]

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

id call shenanigans, on basis supermarkets need no tangible changes (screens already fitted, some tape/stand apart signs still around), and more importantly, they were hiring tens of thousands to cope with the extra business. they did really well at handling the lockdown, would be a shame if they played up for some hand outs.

I’m 50/50 on it

It’s believable - I guess they would argue that is the rest of the country is locked up why should they risk it without reward - super markets also were down on profits I believe.