Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[CHAPPERS]

That's rather answering my point. I certainly get the impression that lots of lockdown supporters, like yourself, want to lock down now and have no plans ever to come out. There are no plans to increase the capacity of the NHS, we already have the vaccine so there is no point planning on another one, all we can do is sit and wait until it all goes away. It isn't good enough.

I'll ask the question a different way. If we go into lockdown, what are the plans and forecasts for coming out?

I’m not a lockdown supporter. What a ridiculous thing to say. I don’t want the NHS to fail.

The plan, as I see it, should be to get as many people boosted as wants one then lockdown the unvaccinated as hard as possible until they realize they damage they are doing. If those idiots don’t want vaccine protection then they can stay at home and people who need care can get it.

Edit: in the spirit of the post above this one I understand that labeling them all idiots is unfair. I have a few friends who won’t get vaccinated and I now plan to stop seeing them. Harsh truths come the new year for some I hope.

 

[vegster]

To give you an indication of the millions who cannot comply with either vax taking or face covering advice, millions of these lanyards have been sold, so it must be true.

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I have to work in close proximity to someone who refuses to wear a face mask because he suffers from nosebleeds and that " his doctor advised him not to wear one. " on Saturday i was pinged by the NHS Covid app to say I had had close contact with a positive Covid case... because I am fully vaccinated and boosted and suffering no symptoms I'm able to work just so long as i pass a daily Lateral Flow test ...... the store supervisor said that I had to make sure I wore my mask at all times while in the store ... I gently pointed out that I was that person who actually always wore a mask unlike the **** who I work with who has lied to avoid wearing one.

 

[Weststander]

I have to work in close proximity to someone who refuses to wear a face mask because he suffers from nosebleeds and that " his doctor advised him not to wear one. " on Saturday i was pinged by the NHS Covid app to say I had had close contact with a positive Covid case... because I am fully vaccinated and boosted and suffering no symptoms I'm able to work just so long as i pass a daily Lateral Flow test ...... the store supervisor said that I had to make sure I wore my mask at all times while in the store ... I gently pointed out that I was that person who actually always wore a mask unlike the **** who I work with who has lied to avoid wearing one.

I had family working at a well known retailer who, with their mates, bought these lanyards from Amazon and wore them as a badge of honour in Lockdown 2. A giggly in joke.

 

[vegster]

I had family working at a well known retailer who, with their mates, bought these lanyards from Amazon and wore them as a badge of honour in Lockdown 2. A giggly in joke.

Sadly, there are twats amongst us.

 

[Weststander]

That's incredibly insensitive of you to drag genuinely vulnerable people into the equation of those that elect not to have the vaccine or use lanyards against the spirit of their origin - further proves my point that the two sides on this subject will never meet with any level of good grace.

Shame, as it's such an important subject for all to be able to engage in.

I was simply mocking the lanyards and the liars who falsely claim exemptions per se.

You read this wrong, where have I ever said anything insensitive about the clinically vulnerable or their carers? Ever.

Put me on ignore if you’re going to continue to read it wrong.

 

[Weststander]

Sadly, there are twats amongst us.

Here’s a question for you. Where customers and staff wear visors, do they stop the airborne spread of Covid?

My instinct is that the micro particles simply pass to the environment sideways and outwards.

They came from a clinical setting where staff where both FFP3 mask and a visor.

 

[atomised]

I was simply mocking the lanyards and the liars who falsely claim exemptions per se.

You read this wrong, where have I ever said anything insensitive about the clinically vulnerable or their carers? Ever.

Put me on ignore if you’re going to continue to read it wrong.

Its a fair point. I come across several people regularly on the school run who have nothing wrong with them at all (they've admitted as such, no hidden disabilities here) who purchased their sunflower lanyards off Amazon so they wouldn't need to mask up

 

[vegster]

Here’s a question for you. Where customers and staff wear visors, do they stop the airborne spread of Covid?

My instinct is that the micro particles simply pass to the environment sideways and outwards.

They came from a clinical setting where staff where both FFP3 mask and a visor.

Yes, that's what happens, facemasks are far far more sensible. National store advice was to ditch the visors as they gave a false sense of security. About the ONLY time they help is if people are coughing and sneezing at someone wearing a facemask as it is possible for the virus to enter via tear ducts. Currently we are triaging people on entry and if they are coughing/sneezing they don't get in.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I was simply mocking the lanyards and the liars who falsely claim exemptions per se.

You read this wrong, where have I ever said anything insensitive about the clinically vulnerable or their carers? Ever.

Put me on ignore if you’re going to continue to read it wrong.

Maybe I am being too touchy, but the fact is I posted in this tread to say there may be millions for whom the vaccine offers little protection.

Oxy-Mc queried this, to which I provided an answer, showing figures from Zoe and the ONS to show it was a real problem.

You then answered that same reply, from Oxy-Mc, with the flippant reference to anti vaxxers and fake lanyard wearers, as if in some way that explained my reference to the "millions" of vulnerable people who may have little protection.

Like I said, maybe I am being over sensitive, maybe your reply was just a bit of banter, or maybe you were being deliberately dismissive, who knows.

Think best for me to dip out of this thread again, as clearly little has changed.

 

[Weststander]

Maybe I am being too touchy, but the fact is I posted in this tread to say there may be millions for whom the vaccine offers little protection.

Someone queried this, to which I provided an answer, showing figures from Zoe and the ONS to show it was a real problem.

You then answered that same reply to my original post with the flippant reference to anti vaxxers and fake lanyard wearers, as if in some way that explained my reference to the "millions" of vulnerable people who may have little protection.

Like I said, maybe I am being over sensitive, maybe your reply was just a bit of banter, or maybe you were being deliberately dismissive, who knows.

Think best for me to dip out of this thread again, as clearly little has changed.

I’ve got Covid just now, confirmed in a PCR a week ago.

I was always, needless to say I didn’t need to try, empathetic to 2 nsc’ers who from day one of the pandemic opened up about the daily risks they faced from Covid and their highly clinically vulnerable wife’s. The feeling of home imprisonment. Whilst they witnessed locally Covid law breakers not giving a ****.

This week stuck at home, illness aside, has been soul destroying. Before this post, that genuinely made me feel more for clinically vulnerable trapped at home for 21 months. I get it. With the threat to life.

But I’ve also seen first hand the effect of lockdowns on mental health, I’m talking about NHS interventions to prevent potential suicide.

This is a complex issue, you’ll probably understand.

Not in the know’s using lockdowns (or the total liberty, fck the vulnerable/old brigade), as a political football need to take a step back. I’m not talking about anyone here, just an assorted collection of left and right shit stirrers in the media spotlight.

 

[Fungus]

This from Zoe, talks about half a million, but then says the figure is probably considerably greater...

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vaccines-and-the-immunosuppressed

There are also a quarter of a million people currently living with blood cancer, others with sickle cell and HIV - The numbers soon add up...

The ONS had 3.7 million being CEV, of which, for many there is limited data on efficacy of vaccines...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronavirusandclinicallyextremelyvulnerablepeopleinengland/17mayto22may2021

Thanks. I've had a read through, and even a small proportion of a very large number is obviously still quite large. But the first article makes the point that it is "live" vaccines that are unsuitable for immunosuppressed people, and goes on to say “The COVID vaccines we are using in the UK are not live vaccines, so they can’t replicate or cause infection themselves. While we might advise patients on immunosuppressants not to take some vaccines, the COVID vaccines are safe for them”.

It's accepted that effectiveness is unknown, but it still seems that multiple jabs increase the protection. The second link mentions that 96% of clinically extremely vulnerable people have had two jabs.

So, unless I've misunderstood, there shouldn't be huge numbers that can't be jabbed (as opposed to those that refuse to be jabbed).

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Thanks. I've had a read through, and even a small proportion of a very large number is obviously still quite large. But the first article makes the point that it is "live" vaccines that are unsuitable for immunosuppressed people, and goes on to say “The COVID vaccines we are using in the UK are not live vaccines, so they can’t replicate or cause infection themselves. While we might advise patients on immunosuppressants not to take some vaccines, the COVID vaccines are safe for them”.

It's accepted that effectiveness is unknown, but it still seems that multiple jabs increase the protection. The second link mentions that 96% of clinically extremely vulnerable people have had two jabs.

So, unless I've misunderstood, there shouldn't be huge numbers that can't be jabbed (as opposed to those that refuse to be jabbed).

Thanks for reading that, much appreciated. You haven’t misunderstood anything, my original point was and still is that there are potentially upwards of 3 million clinically extremely vulnerable people who either can’t have the vaccine, or for whom the efficacy is unknown.

If you’re still in the mood for reading and seeing things from others perspective then this gives you a glimpse of what some people are going through now and possibly for ever, or until vaccines particularly for the immunosuppressed are developed.

https://bloodcancer.org.uk/support-for-you/coronavirus-covid-19/covid-vaccine-blood-cancer/covid-vaccine-efficacy-blood-cancer/

 

[Fungus]

Thanks for reading that, much appreciated. You haven’t misunderstood anything, my original point was and still is that there are potentially upwards of 3 million clinically extremely vulnerable people who either can’t have the vaccine, or for whom the efficacy is unknown.

If you’re still in the mood for reading and seeing things from others perspective then this gives you a glimpse of what some people are going through now and possibly for ever, or until vaccines particularly for the immunosuppressed are developed.

https://bloodcancer.org.uk/support-for-you/coronavirus-covid-19/covid-vaccine-blood-cancer/covid-vaccine-efficacy-blood-cancer/

Your previous links showed me what I was curious about, but I think I'll save this one for later! I do have a mild condition that has recently been technically re-classified as "blood cancer", and was told at my last (telephone) appointment that I will be called for a fourth jab next year. I'm very fit for my age (mid 60s), but would probably be included in the vulnerable category, even though I'm not immunosuppressed. Certainly, the wording in some of the automated text messages and letters I get from the NHS scares the sh1t out of me!

 

[crodonilson]

Looks like Javid is finally going to act and put restrictions in place for Christmas, maximum number indoors and then harsher restrictions after boxing day and the possible closure of hospitality.

 

[A1X]

The treatment of hospitality by Government this last week has been appalling. Just as it was pre-lockdown in March 2020.

 

[dazzer6666]

Looks like Javid is finally going to act and put restrictions in place for Christmas, maximum number indoors and then harsher restrictions after boxing day and the possible closure of hospitality.

Don’t crack open your celebratory champagne just yet. All he’s done is ‘refused to rule out further restrictions’. As Nick Triggle from the BBC says :

Introducing restrictions buys time, but it does not solve the problem. The risk is you just delay the inevitable because you get a rebound in infections once they are lifted.

So the question that has to be asked is what will be done with the time that a short "circuit-breaker" would provide if it was introduced.
It would certainly allow more boosters to be done. But given more than 80% of the most vulnerable have been boosted the gains from that are nowhere near what they were for last winter's lockdown when the vaccine programme was in its infancy.

If admissions were to rise as quickly as some of the most pessimistic modelling suggests restrictions could stop the NHS being overwhelmed by flattening the peak.

This perhaps remains the strongest argument in favour of a circuit breaker given the uncertainty for the moment over how much serious illness will be caused by this Omicron wave.

And all of that, of course, needs to be weighed against the costs to society, the economy and wider mental health.

 

[LamieRobertson]

The treatment of hospitality by Government this last week has been appalling. Just as it was pre-lockdown in March 2020.

Let’s not forget the travel industry too.

 

[Solid at the back]

Looks like Javid is finally going to act and put restrictions in place for Christmas, maximum number indoors and then harsher restrictions after boxing day and the possible closure of hospitality.

You're an absolute disgrace.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Don’t crack open your celebratory champagne just yet. All he’s done is ‘refused to rule out further restrictions’. As Nick Triggle from the BBC says :

Introducing restrictions buys time, but it does not solve the problem. The risk is you just delay the inevitable because you get a rebound in infections once they are lifted.

So the question that has to be asked is what will be done with the time that a short "circuit-breaker" would provide if it was introduced.
It would certainly allow more boosters to be done. But given more than 80% of the most vulnerable have been boosted the gains from that are nowhere near what they were for last winter's lockdown when the vaccine programme was in its infancy.

If admissions were to rise as quickly as some of the most pessimistic modelling suggests restrictions could stop the NHS being overwhelmed by flattening the peak.

This perhaps remains the strongest argument in favour of a circuit breaker given the uncertainty for the moment over how much serious illness will be caused by this Omicron wave.

And all of that, of course, needs to be weighed against the costs to society, the economy and wider mental health.

He can announce whatever restrictions he wants.

When it comes to private residence, individuals will decide whether to comply or not.

I expect many wont.

 

[dazzer6666]

He can announce whatever restrictions he wants.

When it comes to private residence, individuals will decide whether to comply or not.

I expect many wont.

He can’t……they have to go through parliament.

I agree re compliance, that horse has bolted.