Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[LamieRobertson]

This...

Genuine question….I did post yesterday that I felt there was a lack of support for say sick pay for those showing symptoms and there need to isolate …also that the needs of those who shielded last year aren’t far off what they are this year….if that was addressed (I said some imaginative thinking would be necessary) or intention shown to do so ..would that change your view somewhat

 

[Hotchilidog]

But what can we do to stop it? Obviously with irrational fears we can try and teach people that the risk is low. But for people who do have compromised immune systems, their fears are rational that coronavirus will spread and that it will kill them.

Total vaccination would help, but that means babies and children as well. If we don't vaccinate under 18's, that's almost a quarter of the population. If we vaccinate 13-18, it still leaves 15% or so unvaccinated, all of whom are mixing with each other. Unless we close the schools forever or we vaccinate tiny tots, then this disease will spread and we can't do anything to stop it.

We can wipe coronavirus out completely (except that we can't) or we can vaccinate everyone (except that we can't) or we can lockdown forever (except that we can't) - but what other options are there?

What the government do is first of all acknowledge that these vulnerable people exist and reassure them that they are not forgotten. They can provide the financial and medical support that they need. They could also ask the rest of us to continue to wear masks on public transport and shops whilst we complete the vaccination programme.

They could also be much clearer with the messaging regarding the situation with new cases and the threat that they pose to the most vulnerable.

Do not get me wrong I am pleased that restrictions are being lifted, I'm double jabbed and so are most of my friends. I now have festival to look forward to in August and the football season after that, superb bring it on. That said the government's messaging this week has been woeful this week. It's a government that seems and irritated and bored with COVID and a significant number of people feel like they are being thrown under the bus, so the rest of us can go back to the pub and be shoehorned back in the office so their landlord mates can resume their cash raking.

In matters of national emergency the government should lead with empathy for the whole population, not just those of us who are now at a lower risk from this disease. Quite frankly the edge has been taken off the ludicrously titled "Freedom Day" for me by the utter crassness of Johnson and Javid.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But what can we do to stop it? Obviously with irrational fears we can try and teach people that the risk is low. But for people who do have compromised immune systems, their fears are rational that coronavirus will spread and that it will kill them.

Total vaccination would help, but that means babies and children as well. If we don't vaccinate under 18's, that's almost a quarter of the population. If we vaccinate 13-18, it still leaves 15% or so unvaccinated, all of whom are mixing with each other. Unless we close the schools forever or we vaccinate tiny tots, then this disease will spread and we can't do anything to stop it.

We can wipe coronavirus out completely (except that we can't) or we can vaccinate everyone (except that we can't) or we can lockdown forever (except that we can't) - but what other options are there?

See [MENTION=12880]Hotchilidog[/MENTION]s post.

 

[e77]

there is a lack of any plan. there was no plan a month ago though, and this was always going to happen eventually. or is the issue the change of assumed risk at that point? is the call for not removing restrictions accepting the onward impacts? honestly, coming round to conclusion easing is not sensible, i just dont believe there is the broad willingness to support that, and dont hear any productive alternative proposal.

My point is at whatever stage the restrictions ended there should have been a plan ready to kick in. At some stage we were going to have to face the new normal and for some people that has challenges which haven't been addressed.

 

[darkwolf666]

Genuine question….I did post yesterday that I felt there was a lack of support for say sick pay for those showing symptoms and there need to isolate …also that the needs of those who shielded last year aren’t far off what they are this year….if that was addressed (I said some imaginative think would be necessary) or intention shown to do so ..would that change your view somewhat

I will start off by saying I understand that things need to get back to "normal" and peoe should have the freedom they so crave!

However some consideration for the vunerable would be appreciated and yes I thumbed your post yesterday.

The clinically vulnerable are no less at risk today then they were last March, yet now there is no help or provision for them.

Back last year there was the early shopping for the old and vulnerable, priority delivery slots, even food parcels dropped at the front door - that had all stopped. The CEV were told to work from home and if they couldn't to claim SSP - that support has also now been withdrawn.

A vulnerable person can no longer claim SSP and I assume will be forced back to work with no requirement for employers to provide a Covid safe workplace after July 19th...

There wasn't one mention from the government about the vulnerable on Monday and the Health Secretary response is that GP's should contact patients to remind them they are still extremely vulnerable to Covid - well no shit Sherlock, but what are your government going to do to help them?

The reality is the vulnerable did their bit and shielded for 6 months locked away in their homes, while others moaned about their lack of "freedom" while sitting on the beach!!!

The vulnerable are too difficult to deal with, but the problem will slowly reduce as they gradually die off or stay locked away.

I might sound melodramatic and myopic, but it is hard to think of the greater good when you feel you have been brushed under the carpet and forgotten by the very people who should be offering support...

 

[LamieRobertson]

I will start off by saying I understand that things need to get back to "normal" and peoe should have the freedom they so crave!

However some consideration for the vunerable would be appreciated and yes I thumbed your post yesterday.

The clinically vulnerable are no less at risk today then they were last March, yet now there is no help or provision for them.

Back last year there was the early shopping for the old and vulnerable, priority delivery slots, even food parcels dropped at the front door - that had all stopped. The CEV were told to work from home and if they couldn't to claim SSP - that support has also now been withdrawn.

A vulnerable person can no longer claim SSP and I assume will be forced back to work with no requirement for employers to provide a Covid safe workplace after July 19th...

There wasn't one mention from the government about the vulnerable on Monday and the Health Secretary response is that GP's should contact patients to remind them they are still extremely vulnerable to Covid - well no shit Sherlock, but what are your government going to do to help them?

The reality is the vulnerable did their bit and shielded for 6 months locked away in their homes, while others moaned about their lack of "freedom" while sitting on the beach!!!

The vulnerable are too difficult to deal with, but the problem will slowly reduce as they gradually die off or stay locked away.

I might sound melodramatic and myopic, but it is hard to think of the greater good when you feel you have been brushed under the carpet and forgotten by the very people who should be offering support...

I think that’s a very fair response and not melodramatic at all …we’ve spent billions on the government’s approach to the pandemic…surely schemes to help people ..perhaps funded centrally but organised locally would be a worthwhile ‘investment’ and making sure a whole section of society is not forgotten….and that bit about SSP is obscene

 

[dsr-burnley]

What the government do is first of all acknowledge that these vulnerable people exist and reassure them that they are not forgotten. They can provide the financial and medical support that they need. They could also ask the rest of us to continue to wear masks on public transport and shops whilst we complete the vaccination programme.

They could also be much clearer with the messaging regarding the situation with new cases and the threat that they pose to the most vulnerable.

Do not get me wrong I am pleased that restrictions are being lifted, I'm double jabbed and so are most of my friends. I now have festival to look forward to in August and the football season after that, superb bring it on. That said the government's messaging this week has been woeful this week. It's a government that seems and irritated and bored with COVID and a significant number of people feel like they are being thrown under the bus, so the rest of us can go back to the pub and be shoehorned back in the office so their landlord mates can resume their cash raking.

In matters of national emergency the government should lead with empathy for the whole population, not just those of us who are now at a lower risk from this disease. Quite frankly the edge has been taken off the ludicrously titled "Freedom Day" for me by the utter crassness of Johnson and Javid.

Good thoughts. I think I was thinking more "macro" than "micro" - ie. while I don't disagree with the general principles of lockdown, there are things like this that they can do to help the vulnerable.

ne more I would add - publish easy-to-find specifications of what is a really good protective mask and where to find them; if need be, provide them on social security. If a vulnerable person has a 99% protection mask as opposed to say a 70% protection, it should be a big confidence-giver.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If a vulnerable person has a 99% protection mask as opposed to say a 70% protection, it should be a big confidence-giver.

And everyone in supermarkets, public transport etc wearing masks will also be another confidence giver. I’m struggling to understand why wearing a mask in a shop or a train is such an issue…..I really am.

 

[darkwolf666]

Good thoughts. I think I was thinking more "macro" than "micro" - ie. while I don't disagree with the general principles of lockdown, there are things like this that they can do to help the vulnerable.

ne more I would add - publish easy-to-find specifications of what is a really good protective mask and where to find them; if need be, provide them on social security. If a vulnerable person has a 99% protection mask as opposed to say a 70% protection, it should be a big confidence-giver.

Very good point about masks, the feckless can still get free condoms on the NHS but you can't get a face mask!

Prescribed face masks would be a positive step...

 

[LamieRobertson]

Very good point about masks, the feckless can still get free condoms on the NHS but you can't get a face mask!

Prescribed face masks would be a positive step...

Careful that’s middle ground

 

[darkwolf666]

A very thoughtful piece on the subject of the vulnerable on the BBC news website...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57643063

 

[beorhthelm]

A very thoughtful piece on the subject of the vulnerable on the BBC news website...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57643063

i struggle a bit with this. says she's horrified mask may not be required, did it not occur that this would happen at some point? what was the situation pre-covid, how did vulnerable people cope with n-1 diseases in the environment?

 

[darkwolf666]

i struggle a bit with this. says she's horrified mask may not be required, did it not occur that this would happen at some point? what was the situation pre-covid, how did vulnerable people cope with n-1 diseases in the environment?

It's a bit of a shame that you had to pick up on the one word, horrified, and make a big thing of it.

I can't speak for the lady in question, but I don't suppose she expected face masks to be here for ever, I know I didn't.

Maybe she's just "horrified" that they are being taken away at a time of massively rising cases, or maybe she didn't expect the government to have so little regard for the truly vunerable.

As for what would they do pre-Covid - well to be honest that is a little disingenuous of you, as these aren't normal times, with the possibility of coming into Contact with a highly transmissible disease far greater then normal.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's a bit of a shame that you had to pick up on the one word, horrified, and make a big thing of it.

i thought it expressed the importance. a few weeks ago the restrictions were going to be lifted in June. that was delayed to July. so booking the theatre or travel to London expecting anything other than restrictions ending seems odd. is it about perception of risk, and normally vulnerable people cope and manage in their own ways unseen by most, but the anxiety has been ratcheted up?

 

[e77]

i thought it expressed the importance. a few weeks ago the restrictions were going to be lifted in June. that was delayed to July. so booking the theatre or travel to London expecting anything other than restrictions ending seems odd. is it about perception of risk, and normally vulnerable people cope and manage in their own ways unseen by most, but the anxiety has been ratcheted up?

At the moment someone with a compromised immune system is at much more risk than they were pre-pandemic as there are several thousand people walking round carrying Covid, some of which don't even know about it. Now at some point we were going to emerge from lockdown and an exit wave would happen but as it stands there is next to no attempt to manage it by keeping some of the less impactful restrictions in place such as masks in public enclosed spaces.

From when I am standing this seems to have been completely ignored. In many ways it is only partially related to the timing of restrictions being lifted as there was always going to be an exit wave but it just seems to have not been considered.

 

[darkwolf666]

i thought it expressed the importance. a few weeks ago the restrictions were going to be lifted in June. that was delayed to July. so booking the theatre or travel to London expecting anything other than restrictions ending seems odd. is it about perception of risk, and normally vulnerable people cope and manage in their own ways unseen by most, but the anxiety has been ratcheted up?

I found the idea of booking the theatre a bit strange, as there is no way my wife and I would go anywhere near one, masks or not. Having said that, I would imagine, like a substantial part of the population, she didn't expect everything to go all at once.

However, if you are saying that her fears and for that matter my wife's, are not real and is just because of hype from the government to scare people into subservience then, again, I think you do the vunerable a massive disservice!

As I have quoted elsewhere, if someone with blood cancer, like my wife, ends up in hospital due to Covid she is 50% more likely to die - and that's not ratcheted up, but fact...

 

[studio150]

And everyone in supermarkets, public transport etc wearing masks will also be another confidence giver. I’m struggling to understand why wearing a mask in a shop or a train is such an issue…..I really am.

But more buck passing from the Government as the transport secretary Grant Shapps told the Transport Committee that from 19 July planes trains and buses can have their own covid rules - including on mask wearing.

So for those that are anti mask, their ire passes from the Government to the transport company, and Johnson and co, can sit back and say nothing to do with us,

 

[cheshunt seagull]

i thought it expressed the importance. a few weeks ago the restrictions were going to be lifted in June. that was delayed to July. so booking the theatre or travel to London expecting anything other than restrictions ending seems odd. is it about perception of risk, and normally vulnerable people cope and manage in their own ways unseen by most, but the anxiety has been ratcheted up?

As a vulnerable person, I was assessing risk all the time, looking at what activities were safe, monitoring blood test immune level indicators like neutrophil levels etc. In assessing risk from Covid, the infection rates are a key factor. When the original roadmap was introduced, I had no concerns about lifting most restrictions in late June as pre-Delta projections indicated low levels of infection and I want to see life return to normal for the majority of the population. I hadn't expected for a minute that they would be lifted with rates and trends as they are now.

As for anxiety, the minister for ill-health casually talking about 100,000 cases a day is the most terrifying thing I have heard this week. Have I missed something worse?

 

[beorhthelm]

At the moment someone with a compromised immune system is at much more risk than they were pre-pandemic as there are several thousand people walking round carrying Covid, some of which don't even know about it. Now at some point we were going to emerge from lockdown and an exit wave would happen but as it stands there is next to no attempt to manage it by keeping some of the less impactful restrictions in place such as masks in public enclosed spaces.

From when I am standing this seems to have been completely ignored. In many ways it is only partially related to the timing of restrictions being lifted as there was always going to be an exit wave but it just seems to have not been considered.

right, thats where im coming from. there is no plan, there was no plan. that part hasn't changed, expectations did.

 

[vegster]

As a vulnerable person, I was assessing risk all the time, looking at what activities were safe, monitoring blood test immune level indicators like neutrophil levels etc. In assessing risk from Covid, the infection rates are a key factor. When the original roadmap was introduced, I had no concerns about lifting most restrictions in late June as pre-Delta projections indicated low levels of infection and I want to see life return to normal for the majority of the population. I hadn't expected for a minute that they would be lifted with rates and trends as they are now.

As for anxiety, the minister for ill-health casually talking about 100,000 cases a day is the most terrifying thing I have heard this week. Have I missed something worse?

Our new Health Minister's expertise lies in finance and banking, people are now just numbers to him it seems. Good luck everyone.