Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Fungus]

One downside is that it gives the government powers that it does not need. Another is that it extends people's fear in that some people will continue to believe that coronavirus is a deadly dangerous wide-ranging threat, when it currently isn't. Another is that if the mask compulsion is to be released this year, your proposal would release it when respiratory infections are rising as winter approaches rather than now, when there is a lot of summer still to come. Another is that if masks are mandated for public transport into the next school year then it will encourage that fool Williamson to continue to disrupt and destroy children's education on the flimsiest of pretexts. Another is the continued mental health issues of people being told again and again that their freedom is coming and being repeatedly told that it is not coming after all.

I can and do see the reason for stopping wearing masks now, and I can see why some people want to keep masks for ever. I'll reverse your question. What is the benefit of extending the mask mandate so that under-35's can be fully vaccinated? There are on average 176 people per day dying of respiratory diseases, and your proposal will protect approximately 0.1 of them. Is the cost of compulsory mask wearing worth the very marginal short-term increase in safety for under 35's?

I think my postie would be glad to see the end of masks. She's completely deaf, and relies on lip-reading.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm getting a little nervous now, this " irreversible " easing really seems a risky gamble given the huge increase in new cases we have seen over the last few weeks. I used to think that Javid was a pretty reasonable minister for a Tory but he seems to have been re-programmed since his hiatus between the treasury and re-emerging as health Minister. Has he been told to " Get Lockdown Done" at all costs by Johnson as the price of a seat back in cabinet ? I genuinely think the language he is using shows he does not really understand the nuances of the Covid-19 epidemic, only the numbers.

Politics trumps Covid science in Javid’s push to ‘live with the virus

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/politics-trumps-covid-science-in-javids-push-to-live-with-the-virus

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/04/pm-confirm-19-july-end-covid-restrictions-scientists-warnings-england
PM to confirm 19 July end to Covid rules despite scientists’ warnings
Boris Johnson to press ahead with final stage of unlocking in England amid huge rise in infections

Stephen Reicher, a professor at the University of St Andrews who is also a member of the government subcommittee advising on behavioural science, said: “It is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who still thinks Covid is flu. Who is unconcerned at levels of infection. Who doesn’t realise that those who do best for health also do best for the economy. Who wants to ditch all protections while only half of us are vaccinated.”



He added: “Above all, it is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who wants to make all protections a matter of personal choice when the key message of the pandemic is: this isn’t an ‘I’ thing, it’s a ‘we’ thing.”

Javid didn't actually say this....

Miche wants restrictions forever.

 

[e77]

again, should this mandate be N95, surgical grade or non-specified? the reason i ask is that mandating next to negligible protection of the latter at this point seems, well, negligible. if you want to mandate something to protect people, make it the ones that function as protection rather than symbolism. and yes, that should have been the case the past year too.

2020 just called, they want their argument back.

The standard face coverings we have all been wearing have slowed the spread of the virus. If I was to stand a metre from you and sneeze a face covering would mean droplets are less likely to reach you.

 

[e77]

One downside is that it gives the government powers that it does not need. Another is that it extends people's fear in that some people will continue to believe that coronavirus is a deadly dangerous wide-ranging threat, when it currently isn't. Another is that if the mask compulsion is to be released this year, your proposal would release it when respiratory infections are rising as winter approaches rather than now, when there is a lot of summer still to come. Another is that if masks are mandated for public transport into the next school year then it will encourage that fool Williamson to continue to disrupt and destroy children's education on the flimsiest of pretexts. Another is the continued mental health issues of people being told again and again that their freedom is coming and being repeatedly told that it is not coming after all.

I can and do see the reason for stopping wearing masks now, and I can see why some people want to keep masks for ever. I'll reverse your question. What is the benefit of extending the mask mandate so that under-35's can be fully vaccinated? There are on average 176 people per day dying of respiratory diseases, and your proposal will protect approximately 0.1 of them. Is the cost of compulsory mask wearing worth the very marginal short-term increase in safety for under 35's?

Most of that really isn't a scientific argument.

If we move the infections back then more people will have been fully vaccinated hence further reducing the risk of hospitalisations and, possibly more importantly, mutations. Also note I am not talking about making it mandatory in things like pubs and nightclubs which are optional endeavours and can still be avoided (plus they need the money).

There seems to be a rush from some quarters to stop daily updates of infections so as not to scare people. Equally it needs to be acknowledged deaths are not the only metric to worry about.

 

[A1X]

So basically the Government is now going to risk the mutation of a vaccine-resistant variant entirely unnecessarily and either put us all back in hard lockdown or condemn thousands to death?

Marvellous.

 

[darkwolf666]

I'm getting a little nervous now, this " irreversible " easing really seems a risky gamble given the huge increase in new cases we have seen over the last few weeks. I used to think that Javid was a pretty reasonable minister for a Tory but he seems to have been re-programmed since his hiatus between the treasury and re-emerging as health Minister. [Has he been told to " Get Lockdown Done" at all costs by Johnson as the price of a seat back in cabinet ? I genuinely think the language he is using shows he does not really understand the nuances of the Covid-19 epidemic, only the numbers.

Politics trumps Covid science in Javid’s push to ‘live with the virus

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/politics-trumps-covid-science-in-javids-push-to-live-with-the-virus

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/04/pm-confirm-19-july-end-covid-restrictions-scientists-warnings-england
PM to confirm 19 July end to Covid rules despite scientists’ warnings
Boris Johnson to press ahead with final stage of unlocking in England amid huge rise in infections

This would almost certainly appear to be the case. I think Hancock, having been seen to be weak even before the affair story, was thrown under the bus by Johnson, who knew he could bring a new man in to sell the back to "normal" mantra - Sajid Javid being the newbie in post was the man for the job and the has thrown himself into his role from day one. Johnson will be pleased with how this has worked out, he couldn't have planned it better if he had taken the snaps of Hancock himself!

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1411323366158516233[/tweet]

 

[beorhthelm]

2020 just called, they want their argument back.

The standard face coverings we have all been wearing have slowed the spread of the virus. If I was to stand a metre from you and sneeze a face covering would mean droplets are less likely to reach you.

sure there are some protection but its minimal - less likely as you say. the argument was valid then as now. if you want to protect people, should mandate something that actually do something like 95-99%. if you're sitting opposite someone infectious (not sneezing) on a train the 60-75% protection of a non-standard mask is negligible over a 30-60 minute journey. proximity and time in proximity have far great effect. so why take a stand on protecting people on transport, but not be willing to do it properly?

 

[dsr-burnley]

[tweet]1411323366158516233[/tweet]

Ventilation and clean air isn't too hard to do. Open all the windows and provide al employees with personal electric heaters that can be left on all day. Not sure what the green lobby would say about it, though ...

 

[A1X]

Ventilation and clean air isn't too hard to do. Open all the windows and provide al employees with personal electric heaters that can be left on all day. Not sure what the green lobby would say about it, though ...

So where is the Government action around this? Or in their desperate rush to wash their hands of responsibility and hope we forget all about their monumental cock-ups are they just hoping when we get it wrong they can blame us?

 

[dsr-burnley]

So basically the Government is now going to risk the mutation of a vaccine-resistant variant entirely unnecessarily and either put us all back in hard lockdown or condemn thousands to death?

Marvellous.

The government has choices. One, allow this virus to circulate. Two, lockdown hard, harder than they have before. Three, vaccinate everyone from babyhood.

They could, I suppose, make some sort of compromise by a combination of two and three - allow adults to go free and vaccinated but close all the schools - but that's no more acceptable than option two or option three on its own. But if children are not to be vaccinated, and schools are to be open, then there is no point talking about stopping the risk of mutation, because it cannot be done.

 

[darkwolf666]

So where is the Government action around this? Or in their desperate rush to wash their hands of responsibility and hope we forget all about their monumental cock-ups are they just hoping when we get it wrong they can blame us?

Erm - let me think about this for a moment - yes!

The cede change was when the mantra was changed to Stay Alert - that put the onus firmly onto the individual and absolved the government of any blame or culpability - they will take credit if things work out (which hopefully they will) and blame the public if they don't - win / win for HMG.

While I understand that people have to look after themselves, and things need to get back to normal - it all just seems a bit, well rushed!

 

[beorhthelm]

[tweet]1411323366158516233[/tweet]

quite right. should have legislation to have airplane style oxygen masks at every desk in every school and office.
time to move on, not reverting to fear of low risk scenarios, shirley ?

 

[Yoda]

So where is the Government action around this? Or in their desperate rush to wash their hands of responsibility and hope we forget all about their monumental cock-ups are they just hoping when we get it wrong they can blame us?

Have you been hiding under a rock the past few months? The Governments mantra has been this from at least March:

 

[LamieRobertson]

I think my postie would be glad to see the end of masks. She's completely deaf, and relies on lip-reading.

Have to say I rely for part of my understanding on lip reading ..some are quick to dismiss it as oh it’s just a mask..or we live in this country and we all just do it…glad they do because sod them

 

[LamieRobertson]

Stephen Reicher, a professor at the University of St Andrews who is also a member of the government subcommittee advising on behavioural science, said: “It is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who still thinks Covid is flu. Who is unconcerned at levels of infection. Who doesn’t realise that those who do best for health also do best for the economy. Who wants to ditch all protections while only half of us are vaccinated.”



He added: “Above all, it is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who wants to make all protections a matter of personal choice when the key message of the pandemic is: this isn’t an ‘I’ thing, it’s a ‘we’ thing.”

Javid didn't actually say this....

Miche wants restrictions forever.

Exactly like mad Devi the nutritionist in charge of Scottish health …wading in and misquoting Javid to suit her argument

 

[crodonilson]

My mask will be staying on for a while yet and given you wear a mask to protect others more so than to protect yourself I do hope that most people with good conscience and social responsibility will continue to wear them as the third wave continues to grow until a point where we are all fully vaccinated and fingers crossed cases are a long way down than where they are currently.

 

[LamieRobertson]

My mask will be staying on for a while yet and given you wear a mask to protect others more so than to protect yourself I do hope that most people with good conscience and social responsibility will continue to wear them as the third wave continues to grow until a point where we are all fully vaccinated and fingers crossed cases are a long way down than where they are currently.

Mine will be in the bin ASAP..obviously I don’t care a jot

(I don’t use public transport..where I can see them being retained)

 

[A1X]

So how long will it be before some "freedom fighter" gets in the news for ripping off the mask of someone who chooses to wear it on a train / bus / tube after the 19th? I give it three days maximum.

 

[LamieRobertson]

So how long will it be before some "freedom fighter" gets in the news for ripping off the mask of someone who chooses to wear it on a train / bus / tube after the 19th? I give it three days maximum.