Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Albion Dan]

I'm all for not killing the economy but I'm all for not killing old people as well.

But as has been said many times if the economy implodes the system that supports the majority of old people implodes too (likely to kill many more) as well as the extreme misery that will be imposed on almost everybody else. For years and years. A very small % of people will die of covid (regularly now presented as fact by Chris Whitty) vs the huge impact and years of misery that are now almost inevitable and get worse the longer and stricter the rules are in place. Life isn't fair, sometimes you have to see the bigger picture and choose the route that is the least damaging in the long term. Like I said I am very confident that the countries prepared to make the tougher choices will fare much better in the long term.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Quite, they are pretending to care about under privileged kids now. I mean how thick do they think we are ffs.

If you want your child to be a lab rat then send them back in June if mine were still at School age they wouldn’t be going.

It is really interesting how this is playing out. I switched Radio 4 off this morning when they described the problem as the government needing to persuade the Trade Unions. Absolute shameful political nonsense!

What has been interesting is the academy heads who have helpfully pointed out that all schools need to undergo a thorough risk assessment, which naturally they as forward thinking educationalists have completed. So why are the militant lefties still knitting yoghurt?

Academy schools have nearly all been built to bureaucratic EU (we will be free of this nonsense soon) standards in the last 10-15 years. This means nice wide corridors for wheelchairs, not too many stairs etc. Shoreham Academy is a great example of this, where the building borrowed elements of its design from prisons, with lots of great lines of visibility. Lancing College up the road, was built for a different age, fortunately it has more control over class sizes than your average comp.I can still recall bundling my way up and down the stairwells of Long'ill in the 1970s, good luck with your risk assessment there !

Channel 4 news had a good piece about primary schools in Denmark, where kids are allowed to gather in cells of three indoors and five outdoors. All media outlets as far as I am aware have so far neglected to canvas any kids. The year 7 transition is daunting enough if you don't have an older sibling at secondary school, it must be terrifying for some of the Year 6 kids right now.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Interesting that Eton and Harrow don't open until September, but it is OK for the cannon fodder to send their children back to school.

I have thought about this in the last day or so. On the surface it seems that there is one rule for one, another rule for another in operation. However, public schools have a lot of boarders. Sorting some kind of fair system for return would be high on impossible given they live all over the country and indeed the world.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Government could have easily solved this problem by allowing 6 children per day, per class. At least they would have got some school time, and would be able to properly social distance. My daughters class is tiny, there is absolutely no way you can properly distance 15 children.

As it stands, I don't know if I want to send my daughter in.

 

[WilburySeagull]

Government could have easily solved this problem by allowing 6 children per day, per class. At least they would have got some school time, and would be able to properly social distance. My daughters class is tiny, there is absolutely no way you can properly distance 15 children.

As it stands, I don't know if I want to send my daughter in.

In as many discussions and even by trying the govt website I have tried to ask where the average primary school is going to find the space to halve class sizes when all the children go back. I get that its possible when only 3 year groups are involved but what when they all return?

Thats aside from the impossibility of distancing 5 and 6 yr olds who in any case learn most social skills by the very interaction that is being prevented.

 

[The Wizard]

Surely if there is only reception, year 1 and year 6 back in a staggered basis - most primary schools have at least 7 classrooms + hall, library you can just split the groups up in different classrooms/rooms it’s really not going to be that difficult to socially distance, providing the correct measures are put in place. It’s working in Denmark and other European countries.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Luckily we have been given the option of carrying on with home schooling ( but the teachers won't be able to do it to the same level ) or going back to school in June.

So, reduced home schooling it is - along with refreshing what we have already done this term - and back in September for the little one.

 

[Guinness Boy]

In as many discussions and even by trying the govt website I have tried to ask where the average primary school is going to find the space to halve class sizes when all the children go back. I get that its possible when only 3 year groups are involved but what when they all return?

Thats aside from the impossibility of distancing 5 and 6 yr olds who in any case learn most social skills by the very interaction that is being prevented.

Are you / were you in education? These are exactly the (excellent) points raised in a video message by my daughter's headmaster. Firstly he was expecting the older children to go back in first. There is NO evidence at all to support sending in reception and year 1 and, indeed, their lack of distancing ability will put the 15 kids to a class limit to mockery. Secondly, because there will be a 15 kids per class limit all the other teachers will have to teach actual classes meaning there is no one to teach years 2, 3, 4 and 5 remotely. Thirdly when those years go back social distancing will be impossible and we'll be back to 30 kid classes again.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Surely if there is only reception, year 1 and year 6 back in a staggered basis - most primary schools have at least 7 classrooms + hall, library you can just split the groups up in different classrooms/rooms it’s really not going to be that difficult to socially distance, providing the correct measures are put in place. It’s working in Denmark and other European countries.

It's only three school years for now and this time of year holding classes outside is especially advantageous. It is though quite easy to apply logic and risk assess the situation when it is not your own most precious things. For many parents it is going to need something more than Michael Gove saying it will be okay.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Surely if there is only reception, year 1 and year 6 back in a staggered basis - most primary schools have at least 7 classrooms + hall, library you can just split the groups up in different classrooms/rooms it’s really not going to be that difficult to socially distance, providing the correct measures are put in place. It’s working in Denmark and other European countries.

I agree we should get kids back as soon as practicable but with safety of course for everyone in mind. One problem for our school (it is a large Primary school) is logistics. If we spread 15 children through every class that would be 7 classes of 30 that turn into 14 classes of 15. 15 is far too large a number of children to socially distance at either end of the spectrum. Rec and Y1 children are unable to properly distance as they are too young and Year 6 are by that age quite large. Most of our classroom sizes are physically small, I looked on in envy at the Danish ones that kept being shown as an example on the BBC. They should really look at some of our schools and get a better idea! Another difficulty is that the furniture is completely unsuitable as you go up the school, for Rec and Y1, being way too large. Add in Reception has dedicated classrooms with playgrounds built on where children spend a lot of time playing to learn and by doing that they need to mix with their peers.

I believe most of the objections raised would have fallen away by now were the govt to have done the expected and phased in Y6 for a start.

 

[The Wizard]

It's only three school years for now and this time of year holding classes outside is especially advantageous. It is though quite easy to apply logic and risk assess the situation when it is not your own most precious things. For many parents it is going to need something more than Michael Gove saying it will be okay.

I agree we should get kids back as soon as practicable but with safety of course for everyone in mind. One problem for our school (it is a large Primary school) is logistics. If we spread 15 children through every class that would be 7 classes of 30 that turn into 14 classes of 15. 15 is far too large a number of children to socially distance at either end of the spectrum. Rec and Y1 children are unable to properly distance as they are too young and Year 6 are by that age quite large. Most of our classroom sizes are physically small, I looked on in envy at the Danish ones that kept being shown as an example on the BBC. They should really look at some of our schools and get a better idea! Another difficulty is that the furniture is completely unsuitable as you go up the school, for Rec and Y1, being way too large. Add in Reception has dedicated classrooms with playgrounds built on where children spend a lot of time playing to learn and by doing that they need to mix with their peers.

I believe most of the objections raised would have fallen away by now were the govt to have done the expected and phased in Y6 for a start.

I understand that don’t get me wrong, each parent will have their own worries but the element of risk will always be there unless the virus is totally eradicated, for me the positive of kids going to school outweigh the small risks involved and when you consider IF there is no vaccine the risks will never go away, there could be a second wave in winter so then we end up with children out of education from November/December onwards as well.

The whole idea of going back in September is presumptuous, I kept seeing concerned parents quote this but to me we should make hay while the sun is shining so to speak and if infection rates and particularly community transmission rates continue to fall getting kids back to school at the start of June seems like a good idea IMO. I also do agree there has to be some common sense involved because certain schools are bigger than others and logistically not every case is the same.

 

[BeHereNow]

What about everyone with pre-existing conditions and/or over 40?

What is the answer to your cancer question, does it have a metric, or like my then smoker dad used to say, the tax on my fags more than pays for the treatment needed for smoking related illness (even though it gets nowhere near).

No one denies there is a cost of lockdown, but relaxing it without track and trace, with consistent mass testing, with an update to typical symptoms, then a second spike could be even worse to your own argument.

And they say our lot are the tinfoil hat brigade.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I understand that don’t get me wrong, each parent will have their own worries but the element of risk will always be there unless the virus is totally eradicated, for me the positive of kids going to school outweigh the small risks involved and when you consider IF there is no vaccine the risks will never go away, there could be a second wave in winter so then we end up with children out of education from November/December onwards as well.

The whole idea of going back in September is presumptuous, I kept seeing concerned parents quote this but to me we should make hay while the sun is shining so to speak and if infection rates and particularly community transmission rates continue to fall getting kids back to school at the start of June seems like a good idea IMO. I also do agree there has to be some common sense involved because certain schools are bigger than others and logistically not every case is the same.

I don't disagree.

However with the backdrop of the UK's high mortality figures and the government scaring everyone with their messages of staying home, it will take a while for people to feel okay about getting back to normal. The govt assured teachers and parents all along that they would be very cautious, but by encouraging the return of the two least suitable year groups, they have lost a lot of the trust people had in that message. I do not know a single teacher or school-worker who agrees with that decision.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I don't disagree.

However with the backdrop of the UK's high mortality figures and the government scaring everyone with their messages of staying home, it will take a while for people to feel okay about getting back to normal. The govt assured teachers and parents all along that they would be very cautious, but by encouraging the return of the two least suitable year groups, they have lost a lot of the trust people had in that message. I do not know a single teacher or school-worker who agrees with that decision.

Agreed.

The reception/year 1 idea is absolutely bonkers.

Year 6 I can understand and get behind.

I think this will be reflected in the number of children who are sent in by parents come June 1st or whenever it may be.

 

[atomised]

Agreed.

The reception/year 1 idea is absolutely bonkers.

Year 6 I can understand and get behind.

I think this will be reflected in the number of children who are sent in by parents come June 1st or whenever it may be.

My kids school has confirmed that from june 1st they will be taking year one splitting them between morning and afternoon sessions with a view to bringing other names year groups back as and when their health and safety advice confirms it is safe to do so.

 

[Albion Dan]

Agreed.

The reception/year 1 idea is absolutely bonkers.

Year 6 I can understand and get behind.

I think this will be reflected in the number of children who are sent in by parents come June 1st or whenever it may be.

The rationale is that kids learn considerably more in reception and year one and missing time now will effect their education much more deeply than in other years.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The rationale is that kids learn considerably more in reception and year one and missing time now will effect their education much more deeply than in other years.

Then it's nonsense. Kids in Finland don't even go to formal school at that age and yet they do better than their UK counterparts later on.

The real reason is that Boris and Cummings will do whatever they think it takes to get their popularity back and this makes them look 'caring'. In fact, what you'll get is the youngest kids of the hardest up parents, and many of those parents can't even spell "social distancing".

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The rationale is that kids learn considerably more in reception and year one and missing time now will effect their education much more deeply than in other years.

I think educators understand the rationale. If everything through lockdown was aimed purely at 'rationale' then GCSE's and A levels would be taking place. The government decided to override rationale fortunately, otherwise we'd be looking at a far greater mortality rate.

 

[oldboyroy]

New infections at lowest rate since March everything is looking far better.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

The rationale is that kids learn considerably more in reception and year one and missing time now will effect their education much more deeply than in other years.

I’m aware of the rationale but it is still bonkers.