Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Green Cross Code Man]

And we certainly wouldn't be discharging coronavirus patients from hospital directly into care care. That's not a challenge, it's just basic common sense. Sake!

I will reserve judgement until after the crisis is over (as with the mortalities). However, it does on the surface seem a monumental cock-up. We seem to have been caught on the hop and the result is the most tragic of endings.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

just when you were wondering how the **** we got johnson , trump and our bloke morrison in charge all at once and how could it get any worse , we now have the biggest political football ever thrown into the mix with this virus..........watching the global response to it is like watching a load of 4 year olds trying to stab a turd in a potty with a bit of lego.......the politicians , on the whole , are hopelessly out of their depths..........its just a complete head **** , none of the figures add up and there are far too many contradicting agenda globally........i can't help thinking that , unfortunately , it will just end up as survival of the fittest , if we keep vaccinating against progressively stronger viruses we will be left with no naturally occurring immunity and are beholden to sqillionaires for all eternity to develop , administer and charge us for progressively more toxic vaccinations..........worth noting that , it is a well known fact , Big Bill does not vaccinate his family..........mad times..

current , confirmed cases globally 3.7 million.

Spoils the rant when the denouement is fake.

 

[Guinness Boy]

'Coronavirus rate of transmission is increasing, says chief government statistician'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...umber-rate-deaths-cases-nhs-a9504496.html?amp

'Professor Ian Diamond told the Downing Street press conference: “That is driven by the epidemic in care homes. That gives us a real challenge.”

Sorry for the slightly old (2 days ago) link, but only just seen it and not seen it discussed - tho may well have missed it.

Anybody think that hmgov's (in)actions re care homes are verging on a national scandal? These are some of the most vulnerable members of society. Also some of the immobile. They ain't going anywhere in a hurry. We as a society are supposed to be shielding them. Are we f***. If we were shielding them, we'd strictly control who goes in and out, rigorously test the carers on a frequent basis and provide them with the PPE they need. And we certainly wouldn't be discharging coronavirus patients from hospital directly into care care. That's not a challenge, it's just basic common sense. Sake!

No, I think it's an international scandal. Stories from Spain and Italy of care homes being abandoned by staff and patients left to their fate. Here, it would seem, staff are doing their very best under difficult circumstances.

However, what do you do? I assume some very difficult choices had to be made here. Move the care home population into hospital, or keep them bed blocking and you potentially stop care for young parents or otherwise fit middle aged people. We were warned at the start of this that it could come down to choices like that for care. But, as we've seen, don't move them and you have massive germ incubators full of those most likely to die.

I don't think there is / was an easy answer but at bare minimum staff should have had adequate PPE and more support.

 

[Jeff Minton's Corners]

888

Where did you hear that? https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...fused-to-vaccinate-his-children-idUSKBN22B26Z

That article is a load of bullshit. If you believe crap like that then it's probable you also believe in things like the official version of Jeff Epstein 'death' and how there's no need for concern that Bill Gates was regularly meeting up with him.

 

[dazzer6666]

I will reserve judgement until after the crisis is over (as with the mortalities). However, it does on the surface seem a monumental cock-up. We seem to have been caught on the hop and the result is the most tragic of endings.

Agreed......the care home situation does have the makings of an absolutely huge error. Hospitals were discharging all manner of elderly patients as the virus took over to create capacity for COVID patients - suspect a lot already had it.

The other side of this now is that the R number excluding care homes is almost certainly very low now (evidenced by the falling numbers in hospital/ITU and non care home deaths) which means we should be looking at very different easing arrangements for care homes vs everywhere else but it seems the plan centres on the overall R number.

 

[Bakero]

That article is a load of bullshit. If you believe crap like that then it's probable you also believe in things like the official version of Jeff Epstein 'death' and how there's no need for concern that Bill Gates was regularly meeting up with him.

Evidence that Gates doesn't vaccinate his kids?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No, I think it's an international scandal. Stories from Spain and Italy of care homes being abandoned by staff and patients left to their fate. Here, it would seem, staff are doing their very best under difficult circumstances.

However, what do you do? I assume some very difficult choices had to be made here. Move the care home population into hospital, or keep them bed blocking and you potentially stop care for young parents or otherwise fit middle aged people. We were warned at the start of this that it could come down to choices like that for care. But, as we've seen, don't move them and you have massive germ incubators full of those most likely to die.

Red zones and amber zones like they've had in hospitals for quite some time now?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes I get it, you who blindly believe in the big business lobby are very intelligent and superior etc since that's what it says in the newspaper headline beneath "man destroys man".

That's my whole point. I don't 'blindly believe' anything. You, on the other hand, blindly believe anybody who contradicts people who you think people like me blindly believe. I don't engage with that nonsense any more than I get involved in discussions about whose religion is correct. Call me back when you have some actual evidence that, for example, 5G caused Covid-19. In the meantime I'll accept that yes, yes, you could be right.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That article is a load of bullshit. If you believe crap like that then it's probable you also believe in things like the official version of Jeff Epstein 'death' and how there's no need for concern that Bill Gates was regularly meeting up with him.

When there's a vaccination for Corona you can stay at the back of the queue.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

That article is a load of bullshit. If you believe crap like that then it's probable you also believe in things like the official version of Jeff Epstein 'death' and how there's no need for concern that Bill Gates was regularly meeting up with him.

Bizarre. It is a well known fact (lol) that the story about Gates not vaccinating his children is fake.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Bizarre. It is a well known fact (lol) that the story about Gates not vaccinating his children is fake.

It would be absolutely MENTAL. It would basically mean the vaccination programmes he's funded were a multi billion dollar spend that he didn't believe in. It's like asking Tony Bloom to invest in Crystal Palace

 

[Bozza]

Yes but what about the scones

I missed out

Might have to bake my own...

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It would be absolutely MENTAL. It would basically mean the vaccination programmes he's funded were a multi billion dollar spend that he didn't believe in. It's like asking Tony Bloom to invest in Crystal Palace

Good analogy. There are two current worldwide epidemics, both are challenging, but unfortunately the conspiracist version isn't going to go away any time soon.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

As far as care homes are concerned, the majority are privately owned businesses. Their management have also completely failed their staff and the customers. It was possible for them to insist on testing prior to allowing new people into their homes. It's their responsibility, by law, to protect staff and customers. So far there's been no criticism of their management and that is a disgrace. They are big business, making big money yet have so far got off scot free.

At the beginning of the year it was very obvious that there was going to be an issue coming our way, meanwhile the management of these places made no apparent attempt themselves to safeguard their businesses, why not?

Feel sorry for the staff and those living at these places.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No, I think it's an international scandal. Stories from Spain and Italy of care homes being abandoned by staff and patients left to their fate. Here, it would seem, staff are doing their very best under difficult circumstances.

However, what do you do? I assume some very difficult choices had to be made here. Move the care home population into hospital, or keep them bed blocking and you potentially stop care for young parents or otherwise fit middle aged people. We were warned at the start of this that it could come down to choices like that for care. But, as we've seen, don't move them and you have massive germ incubators full of those most likely to die.

I don't think there is / was an easy answer but at bare minimum staff should have had adequate PPE and more support.

Thousands could have been saved by total quatantine from the off. Instead we had people on minimum wage going in and out every day for weeks before Boris got over his dithering. My mum's cousin was in a decent care home on Old Shoreham road till she died (a year ago) and no disrespect to the staff but even there, with the extraordinary charges, they were the sort of people for whom a job on minimum wage was a challenge. Adequate when everything was fine, but insufficiently well trained to realise when my old relative was dehydrated or in need of minor medical attention. One time they 'lost' her dentures and simply did nothing to replace them. These places needed to be told exactly what to do, and the infrastructure and funding put in place by the government to ensure it happened. To learn that the rate of new cases is still increasing in care homes is a scandal.

 

[Bozza]

We'll see if it results in a mini spike. If not I would hope it will allow social "bubbles". If it does we could be tightening up.

I wonder if it would be noticeable. Given the incubation period, length of illness and, ultimately, death, you'd need to be looking over a range of days some weeks from now, although I guess hospitalisations ahead of that would be an indicator.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Thousands could have been saved by total quatantine from the off. Instead we had people on minimum wage going in and out every day for weeks before Boris got over his dithering. My mum's cousin was in a decent care home on Old Shoreham road till she died (a year ago) and no disrespect to the staff but even there, with the extraordinary charges, they were the sort of people for whom a job on minimum wage was a challenge. Adequate when everything was fine, but insufficiently well trained to realise when my old relative was dehydrated or in need of minor medical attention. One time they 'lost' her dentures and simply did nothing to replace them. These places needed to be told exactly what to do, and the infrastructure and funding put in place by the government to ensure it happened. To learn that the rate of new cases is still increasing in care homes is a scandal.

Yes, it is, but one repeated across Europe. That was one of my points.

My grandad was in two homes towards the end of his life. One, which looked fabulous from the outside was taken over by corporate owners who cared only for profit. We turned up two weeks later to find him being fed a tiny portion of mash by a 16 year old idiot for his lunch. Very quickly the authorities were alerted by worried relatives but, before we moved him, we were called in to a meeting with a power bitch in a lovely suit who spent 20 minutes trying to bully us into keeping him there.

He was moved within three days to a lovely place in West Worthing. The staff were older, knowledgeable and caring. When he finally went I spent 30 minutes just unloading my grief on to a really nice Irish male nurse, who granddad had bonded with, who must have had better things to do.

They're not all the same.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Yes, it is, but one repeated across Europe. That was one of my points.

My grandad was in two homes towards the end of his life. One, which looked fabulous from the outside was taken over by corporate owners who cared only for profit. We turned up two weeks later to find him being fed a tiny portion of mash by a 16 year old idiot for his lunch. Very quickly the authorities were alerted by worried relatives but, before we moved him, we were called in to a meeting with a power bitch in a lovely suit who spent 20 minutes trying to bully us into keeping him there.

He was moved within three days to a lovely place in West Worthing. The staff were older, knowledgeable and caring. When he finally went I spent 30 minutes just unloading my grief on to a really nice Irish male nurse, who granddad had bonded with, who must have had better things to do.

They're not all the same.

I agree GB they are not all the same but no one is challenging these money grabbing businesses to exactly what they have done in this crisis.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Bizarre. It is a well known fact (lol) that the story about Gates not vaccinating his children is fake.

I refuse to rule it out as a possibility till I've been given the all clear by [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION].

 

[JC Footy Genius]

'Coronavirus rate of transmission is increasing, says chief government statistician'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...umber-rate-deaths-cases-nhs-a9504496.html?amp

'Professor Ian Diamond told the Downing Street press conference: “That is driven by the epidemic in care homes. That gives us a real challenge.”

Sorry for the slightly old (2 days ago) link, but only just seen it and not seen it discussed - tho may well have missed it.

Anybody think that hmgov's (in)actions re care homes are verging on a national scandal? These are some of the most vulnerable members of society. Also some of the immobile. They ain't going anywhere in a hurry. We as a society are supposed to be shielding them. Are we f***. If we were shielding them, we'd strictly control who goes in and out, rigorously test the carers on a frequent basis and provide them with the PPE they need. And we certainly wouldn't be discharging coronavirus patients from hospital directly into care care. That's not a challenge, it's just basic common sense. Sake!

Also, verging on an International scandal? Data was already available by mid-Feb showing the danger to the elderly ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51540981... yet across Europe and further afield, deaths in care homes make up a significant proportion of the Coronavirus deaths. One further point about the UK I haven't seen mentioned, the Scottish government are responsible for their healthcare/social care system, Welsh government responsible for their healthcare/social care yet none of them seemed to complain about HMgov measures or act differently where they could to make their care homes more secure.