Leicester after £6.5m Leo Ulloa

[TSB]

technically, the entire leicester team are prem bound....

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

[TSB]

This. Fantastic for us if true, as he has too many very average/poor games.

Not so sure that he would be a PL success. Lacks pace, and always moaning about defenders. PL defenders would have more pace, strength and savvy.

Haven't seen his goal vs Hull, have you.

 

[Triggaaar]

1) An annual business loss and losses "allowable" under FFP are not the same thing.

I didn't say they were. Where does your £14.8m come from? It's quite specific, so it sounds like it comes from last year, not this year.

2) Paul Barber's comment is shot in time, applicable to the financial position at the time he made it;

Actually it wasn't. He didn't give a Balance Sheet, which would be a snapshot in time, he gave his opinion based on the clubs forecasts. Given that they were expecting to meet FFP, and we don't seem to have spent a load of extra money since he made the comment, then it seems reasonable to imagine we're still on target.

3) The permitted loss under FFP in 2013/14 is £3m unless the shareholders are prepared to inject more equity (to a maximum of an additional £5m). Has Paul Barber (or anyone else at the club) indicated/confirmed that the shareholders are willing to do this?

If we're on target to meet FFP, and the shareholders aren't willing to put an extra £5m in, then that suggests our losses are even less than £8m, so I'm not sure what your point is?

If BHA were to sell Ulloa (or anyone else), the proceeds would not appear in the 2013/14 accounts.

Yep.

Incidentally, his book value is probably around £1.25m atm so selling him for anything above this turns in a profit.

It would boost our FFP figures because we've already written a chunk of his purchase price off, but that doesn't make it a profit. If we sell him for £1.5m, then we will have made a loss.

 

[Mental Lental]

All these comments saying, "Yes, £xm plus Wood...", do these people realise that swap deals are less than 1% of all transfers? If he gets sold, it'll be for a fee.

Probably the same morons that advocate signing players on "pay as you play" deals.

 

[Husty]

Haven't seen his goal vs Hull, have you.

When he is allowed time to get up to speed he can move quite fast but I think it's fair to say his acceleration over a few yards is poor and I think that is what is more important in the prem, obviously he is good at finding space in the box to get his head on the ball and that is the kind of skill you can't really teach and it does him well at this level but would it still be as effective on it's own in a league above? Hard to say.

 

[TSB]

When he is allowed time to get up to speed he can move quite fast but I think it's fair to say his acceleration over a few yards is poor and I think that is what is more important in the prem, obviously he is good at finding space in the box to get his head on the ball and that is the kind of skill you can't really teach and it does him well at this level but would it still be as effective on it's own in a league above? Hard to say.

My point really was that he had both the pace to stay ahead and the savvy to steal in behind them in the first place.
In my mind, he's a better (or, without blue&white tinted glasses, equal) version of Lambert and look at what he's gone on to do at the top level.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I didn't say they were. Where does your £14.8m come from? It's quite specific, so it sounds like it comes from last year, not this year..

It seemed to me that you were switching between the two but using the same figure.

As above, what are we going to do with it? We're running at a loss of £8m a year to try and win promotion. There's no point halving that loss with no hope of promotion.............

Barber said we were on target to meet FFP this year, which means the losses wouldn't be over £8m. They were higher the year before.

The £14.8m figure is the loss posted by the BHA FC Ltd (00081077) at CH for 2012/13.

Actually it wasn't. He didn't give a Balance Sheet, which would be a snapshot in time, he gave his opinion based on the clubs forecasts. Given that they were expecting to meet FFP, and we don't seem to have spent a load of extra money since he made the comment, then it seems reasonable to imagine we're still on target.

OK. He gave his opinion based on the club's forecasts at that point in time. In my experience business forecasts are subject to regular change/update so I'd still regard it as a snapshot.

Absolutely no idea whether the club has spent a load of money since Paul Barber's comments. If not then the transfer fees received for Bridcutt and Barnes will reduce the 2013/14 losses.

If we're on target to meet FFP, and the shareholders aren't willing to put an extra £5m in, then that suggests our losses are even less than £8m, so I'm not sure what your point is?

My point is that our forecasted/budgeted FFP loss for 2013/14 could be less than £8m by design.

It would boost our FFP figures because we've already written a chunk of his purchase price off, but that doesn't make it a profit. If we sell him for £1.5m, then we will have made a loss.

Fair enough, my mistake - wrong word to use. Impacts the annual return too, not just the FFP figures.

 

[Mackenzie]

Having had a quick scan through Leicester's board it seems £6.5m is considered too much for Leo. It is a lot of money, but good centre forwards are very expensive. Ulloa is the one player on our books who is most likely thrive in the PL, I'd say the valuation is probably about right.

Whether we'd sell him is another matter!

 

[keaton]

Ward? Stephens? Lingard? Andrews? Upson? Yeah, he's clueless that bloke.

Upson, Ward and Andrews were all very well-known players, I don't think it would take a particularly brilliant talent-spotter to think they might do a job for us.
Lingaard is a decent player, but doesn't really fit in with our style of play or in any position in our formation which i'd say is pretty crucial to figure out before you sign someone. Stephens looks a good signing but haven't we had to sign him because we ffed up in signing Agustein?

 

[keaton]

Or another way to look at it is not to look for faults in the system or with the striker, but in this case we haven't been giving him much support because the very players we have in our squad that would have been able to provide this have been suffering from injuries (Buckley, Orlandi, CMS, Hoskins, Lua Lua, Crofts)

many a time you could see Ulloa in or around the oppositions penalty area and then have to look right out to the wing or back to the centre circle to find another Brighton player. He has been out numbered and the level of supporting players near him has often been lacking which means that what he has achieved is even better because of this disadvantage.

While I don't think injuries have helped apart from CMS i don't think any of those players being fit would make Ulloa any less isolated, it seems like the style Oscar likes. When they have played (or when Lingaard has played) there has still been no-one near most of the time

 

[Brixtaan]

We sell him to Leicester then buy the best player in league1 and start again. Tis life i'm afraid

 

[albion534]

His job is to score goals, he scores plenty

We need him

 

[keaton]

His job is to score goals, he scores plenty

We need him

Isn't his job to win us games?

 

[Medwayseagull]

Isn't his job to win us games?

Are you suggesting that scoring goals doesn't contribute towards us winning games ?

 

[Triggaaar]

As above, what are we going to do with it? We're running at a loss of £8m a year to try and win promotion. There's no point halving that loss with no hope of promotion. We'd need a replacement signed before we could let him go.

It seemed to me that you were switching between the two but using the same figure.

The £14.8m figure is the loss posted by the BHA FC Ltd (00081077) at CH for 2012/13.

I'm not even sure what you're disagreeing with anymore. Someone said £6.5m, yes please. That represents about £4m profit on Leo and I think we're running at a loss of towards £8m (for FFP purposes) this year, and I imagine £6m next year, to try and win promotion. To effectively reduce that by £4m (if we get no replacement) while at the same time removing any chance we have of promotion means that our losses will have been in vane. It's simply my opinion that our owner accepts that we're running at a loss in the short term, to try and achieve promotion, and there's no point in selling Leo unless we have a replacement ready to sign.

My point is that our forecasted/budgeted FFP loss for 2013/14 could be less than £8m by design.

It could be, or it could be less due to the unexpected sale of Barnes / the rejected offer for Grabban (I assume we made that offer and still intended to meet FFP). So if you thought our loss could be less than £8m, why did you replay to my £8m comment with:

It was around that in League one; currently the football club operation's losses are running at £14.8m/pa

 

[coagulantwolf]

Isn't his job to win us games?

PLAYERS win MATCHES. TEAMS win CHAMPIONSHIPS. (Poyet, G., 2011)

 

[keaton]

Are you suggesting that scoring goals doesn't contribute towards us winning games ?

The team scoring goals does, it's irrelevent who scores them. But if you have someone who'll hold the ball up and stop the other team attacking you'll concede less

Scoring is part of a striker's job, you need a more than just scoring (especially nowadays). None of the top four goalscorers in the Championship's team are promoted or in the play-offs

 

[IlsonDerby]

The same Nugent who scored 22 goals this season and is only 29? I'll take him in a part exchange for Ulloa

10 of those goals were penalties mind...

 

[Pavilionaire]

Any club that starts off the post-season by selling its best player has already got one hand tied behind its back for the rest of the summer.

If the Albion are to progress we need to be bringing players in, preferably signing a decent player early doors. This sends out the signal that the Albion are a club on the up. If Ulloa were to leave soon then that would be three of our best players out in 2014 with no name replacements in. We'd look like a selling club, other clubs would come sniffing around Kuszcsak, Dunk, Ince, Buckley, Lua Lua etc and we'd be in for an uncertain summer.

 

[spring hall convert]

I will let you make that list but I'll give you Ward to start with.

Ince