[Politics] Lee Anderson goes full Oswald Mosely

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The way I see Anderson, Braverman, Tice, Farage and Reform UK.

Unpleasant? Very
Incompetent Certainly
Racist? I think there is strong evidence

Fascist? In my understanding, this is where racial hatred is backed up with organised intimidation and violence. So no I don’t agree this is the case. Potentially in the future? Who knows. And we should never be complacent. But the accusation in the opening post is that Reform UK are the new British Fascists.

Though I don’t like Reform UK, they aren’t the National Front. They aren’t even as brazen as the BNP. Concerningly they are polling 12% and this is likely enough to influence the outcome of the election. For this reason, they can’t just be ignored. If you dismiss the 12% of the UK electorate willing to vote for them as fascists, how are you ever going to get them to see sense and engage with mainstream thinking

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy

That ticks many Reform boxes. Reform can't suppress anything till they are in power. I for one am not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt in the mean time. They have all the instincts of fascism, in much the same way a teenager downloading terrorism porn has all the instincts of a terrorist.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No he wasn't, you need to improve your news sources. The Labour Party policy under Corbyn was "Remain and Reform". Like every politician before the referendum, he pledged to carry out the wishes of the voters re. the referendum result, like any true democrat. Large parts of the Labour Party (but not him) and the Lib Dems scabbed on those promises to voters - allowing the likes of Farage and Anderson to prosper by pointing out an obvious betrayal

Labour policy is to abide by the referendum. This is why some former labour supporters have transferred their allegiance elsewhere (I forget which of the irrelevant parties still vows to rejoin - liberals or greens presumably).

No party has 'scabbed' on their 'promises'. We have had 14 years of tory rule and no other party has had the opportunity to scab on anything. Starmer, the labour leader, has never promised to overrule the wishes of the people (and overturn the Brexit vote). There was a possibility to not leave the EU, prior to Johnson's ascendancy. After Johnson became 'leader' it was too late.

Your narrative is therefore partial and fanciful.

 

[clapham_gull]

He campaigned for remain

I must have missed that.

 

[heathgate]

Haha heathgate. I have been a Conservative voter all my life and have never bought a copy of the Guardian. I have, however, read a few articles online because there is no pay wall and I do like to hear the opinions of those whose politics I do not share. I often find the opinions expressed too smug and righteous to digest.
I will not be voting for the Conservatives at the next election because they have been in power for too long and quite frankly have become an absolute shambles. I cannot bring myself to vote Labour, so it will probably be a local independent if there is a sensible one standing in my constituency. Failing that, it will probably be The Monster Raving Loony Party, I’ve always had a soft spot for Screaming Lord Sutch . As for Corbyn, nothing more needs to be said than he and his cohort were never fit for office.
I don’t go along with some of the opinions expressed on here that the Conservative Party is bordering on Fascism, but I also find myself well out of kilter with the likes of Braverman and her followers, also Badenoch concerns me. There are others as well. The party is presently akin to a ship without a moral compass.
I consider myself centre right. How about you?

Yup, centre right....

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy

That ticks many Reform boxes. Reform can't suppress anything till they are in power. I for one am not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt in the mean time. They have all the instincts of fascism, in much the same way a teenager downloading terrorism porn has all the instincts of a terrorist.

I still disagree

In the thread title, you've named Moseley. Never in power. Indisputably a fascist. Being in power is not a pre-requisite.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I must have missed that.

Corbyn was not someone often reported on accurately, so the false positions attributed to him on this thread are understandable. They should be retracted though.

 

[goldstone]

Listened to what he had to say today and very hard to disagree with any of it.

 

[heathgate]

That's just whataboutery and not my point. The Tories are stopping peaceful protest. The Tories control the media. And every rightwinger in the country shits themselves whenever Gary Lineker posts on 'X'.

They are putting limits on the potential extreme negative effects of any protest.... nothing more nothing less.... smash the effin place up, then you will be banned from future legal marches...

 

[London Irish]

Labour policy is to abide by the referendum. This is why some former labour supporters have transferred their allegiance elsewhere (I forget which of the irrelevant parties still vows to rejoin - liberals or greens presumably).

No party has 'scabbed' on their 'promises'. We have had 14 years of tory rule and no other party has had the opportunity to scab on anything. Starmer, the labour leader, has never promised to overrule the wishes of the people (and overturn the Brexit vote). There was a possibility to not leave the EU, prior to Johnson's ascendancy. After Johnson became 'leader' it was too late.

Your narrative is therefore partial and fanciful.

You can't dispute that every party promised to abide by the referendum result immediately before the vote and then for self-serving reasons, many abandoned those promises.

This is what always got me about Remainers, they followed a strategy of promoting lying politicians. Starmer was specifically the biggest liar among them, leading the campaign within Labour to overturn the referendum pledge from 2017 onwards, and he hasn't stopped lying to this very day. What could possibly go wrong eh? Telling voters you were going to throw all their votes in the bin. Cummings laughed all the way to a massive majority. Cheers.

And of course now his own neck is on the line as Labour leader, Starmer is a diamond hard Brexiteer. Just non-stop, self-serving lies from him

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I still disagree

In the thread title, you've named Moseley. Never in power. Indisputably a fascist. Being in power is not a pre-requisite.

Mmmmm.... OK I'll bite.

What (objectively) defines Mosely's party as a fascists and what defines Anderson's party as not fascist?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You can't dispute that every party promised to abide by the referendum result immediately before the vote and then for self-serving reasons, many abandoned those promises.

This is what always got me about Remainers, they followed a strategy of promoting lying politicians. Starmer was specifically the biggest liar among them, leading the campaign within Labour to overturn the referendum pledge from 2017 onwards, and he hasn't stopped lying to this very day. What could possibly go wrong eh? Telling voters you were going to throw all their votes in the bin. Cummings laughed all the way to a massive majority. Cheers.

And of course now his own neck is on the line as Labour leader, Starmer is a diamond hard Brexiteer. Just non-stop, self-serving lies from him

Crikey. What a mad and partial narrative.

What exactly do you object to here? That Starmer (allegedly) vowed to fight the referendum outcome (the referendum was only advisory so the outcome was fightable), before he became party leader, or that he decided to not bother pissing in the wind after Johnson took us out of the EU (with no plan) when he (Starmer) became party leader (after we had elected Johnson to take us out of the EU, which he did)?

I can think of one or two politicians to call a lair and get all pissy about, but Starmer wouldn't be one of them. Pull yourself together, man!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Haha heathgate. I have been a Conservative voter all my life and have never bought a copy of the Guardian. I have, however, read a few articles online because there is no pay wall and I do like to hear the opinions of those whose politics I do not share. I often find the opinions expressed too smug and righteous to digest.
I will not be voting for the Conservatives at the next election because they have been in power for too long and quite frankly have become an absolute shambles. I cannot bring myself to vote Labour, so it will probably be a local independent if there is a sensible one standing in my constituency. Failing that, it will probably be The Monster Raving Loony Party, I’ve always had a soft spot for Screaming Lord Sutch . As for Corbyn, nothing more needs to be said than he and his cohort were never fit for office.
I don’t go along with some of the opinions expressed on here that the Conservative Party is bordering on Fascism, but I also find myself well out of kilter with the likes of Braverman and her followers, also Badenoch concerns me. There are others as well. The party is presently akin to a ship without a moral compass.
I consider myself centre right. How about you?

Forgive me but I don't think anyone has said that. I have suggested that the Reform party shows many of the phenotypical characteristics of fascism. Anyway, that is a moot point. I confess I threw the word into the ring for reasons of mischief making. But I don't accuse the tories of being fascist. No, instead there is opportunist tub-thumping and all the other shite-housery that has put good people like you off them.

The thread was to mock Lee Anderson, and draw a parallel between him and another party ship-jumper who eventually fell into a right wing cesspit of his own making. As first Reform MP (albeit elected as a conservative) Anderson is now the gammon flagship and antichrist to the other nutter now in parliament, gorgeous George.

I wonder where they will sit in the house? On each other's laps, perhaps.

 

[London Irish]

Crikey. What a mad and partial narrative.

What exactly do you object to here? That Starmer (allegedly) vowed to fight the referendum outcome (the referendum was only advisory so the outcome was fightable), before he became party leader, or that he decided to not bother pissing in the wind after Johnson took us out of the EU (with no plan) when he (Starmer) became party leader (after we had elected Johnson to take us out of the EU, which he did)?

I can think of one or two politicians to call a lair and get all pissy about, but Starmer wouldn't be one of them. Pull yourself together, man!

Can you get to grips with any of the factual points I made or is it just laughing emojis? You are just completely ignoring the inconvenient fact that every political party PROMISED to honour the results of the referendum in 2016? Please reply and ignore this critical point again *insert laughing emoji*

Referendum only advisory. Good lord, Remainiacs learn absolutely nothing

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Can you get to grips with any of the factual points I made or is it just laughing emojis? You are just completely ignoring the inconvenient fact that every political party PROMISED to honour the results of the referendum in 2016? Please reply and ignore this critical point again *insert laughing emoji*

Referendum only advisory. Good lord, Remainiacs learn absolutely nothing

Chill out man. You won. We've left the EU. You must feel richer and freer now. Pour yourself a glass of champers. No need for bitter attacks on Starmer

 

[A1X]

 

[clapham_gull]

Corbyn was not someone often reported on accurately, so the false positions attributed to him on this thread are understandable. They should be retracted though.

I've read a number of books on Corbyn (thanks) and how challenged he was regarding the EU.

It was therefore no surprise that his new found Glastonbury crowd (the ones most negatively affected by Brexit) eventually found him out.

 

[London Irish]

Chill out man. You won. We've left the EU. You must feel richer and freer now. Pour yourself a glass of champers. No need for bitter attacks on Starmer

I voted for Remain of course (pay attention and you'd have noticed the Remain and Reform reference of a few posts back) but sadly my own side consisted of people who love supporting lying politicians who break promises like it's nothing, which is why we have so many of those politicians. So thanks for that

Am I going to ever chill out about that, probably not but I accept arguing about it on here ain't gonna change much, maybe on that we can agree

 

[London Irish]

I've read a number of books on Corbyn (thanks) and how challenged he was regarding the EU.

It was therefore no surprise that his new found Glastonbury crowd (the ones most negatively affected by Brexit) eventually found him out.

But there's basic facts you can't dispute. He campaigned for Remain in the referendum, fact. He argued for reform of the EU (the Remain and Reform position) because unlike all those EU flag-shaggers, he didn't believe the EU was perfect, which about 90% of the British people also believe.

Prior to the referendum, he pledged along with all the other party leaders to carry out the will of the vote, fact. He stuck with that promise after the 2016 vote, while a load of career politicians with contempt for democracy manoevured and chiselled around for careerist self-interest.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I voted for Remain of course (pay attention and you'd have noticed the Remain and Reform reference of a few posts back) but sadly my own side consisted of people who love supporting lying politicians who break promises like it's nothing, which is why we have so many of those politicians. So thanks for that

Am I going to ever chill out about that, probably not but I accept arguing about it on here ain't gonna change much, maybe on that we can agree

Lol! Yes I can agree with that. Given a choice to make, I seek the greater good and avoid the grater bad. The rest is largely irrelevant.

Best wishes

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They are putting limits on the potential extreme negative effects of any protest.... nothing more nothing less.... smash the effin place up, then you will be banned from future legal marches...

Tell that to the Climate Change protesters who are in prison.