[Albion] Lack of squad depth will cost us

[Bold Seagull]

But it remains to be seen whether RDZ has played the formations he has because he got the player's he's got or that is actually the system he wants to play. We also have players who haven't fared as well with 4 at the back. Lamptey and to a lesser extent Webby.

I personally think RDZ will have very definite ideas about the players and the positions they occupy who he will want in this summer.

He may well do, but who is sold, who is available to buy, who is affordable will dictate who he actually gets, and he'll again have to adapt to how the transfer window goes, how preseason shapes up, and how any young players push on. I'm not going to dispute we can't strengthen, but it is from a position of strength rather than weakness imho.

 

[chaileyjem]

Doesn't change the fact that we only have 2 wingers and 1 left back in the squad.

Unfortunately Sarmiento has been injured but he is in the squad. And he's a winger (but can play elsewhere too) .
Brighton also benefit from a squad with players like Gross, March, MacAllister, Enciso, Lamptey who can play a variety of positions including on the wing and LB.
Fact is - after Chelsea we had a flexible squad with an endless pipeline of South American teenagers ready to step up and all was fine.
After Sunday night - now the squad is suddenly too thin, we should have done this and that in January instead, and all is not fine. Ha Ha.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

All well and good but if the manager leaves anytime soon we may then ‘need’ a different combination of players. Clubs have problems when they change the plan to fit in with coaches rather than the other way around. Nothing wrong with developing the squad over time but RDZ will need to fit in with the bigger picture.

I’m not really sure your logic works when you consider our last 3 managers have all required very different things from players positionally and in terms of their interpretation of space. You only have to look at how March has been used by all 3 of them to see the differences. But there are a number of other examples throughout the squad.

We’re moving towards a direction the club want, but the evolution of the playing squad, in terms of positional requirements and composition will always develop over time and from manager to manager, as we evolve.

Either way my original point stands. We have a squad built for Potter but being used well by RDZ… but there are squad depth and positional issues that I’m sure he would like to have solved over the summer internally or externally.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Whatever you say fella…….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I though that Les Patterson was recently deceased

 

[chaileyjem]

In my view, a conversation about squad depth is a legitimate one. The great majority here aren't trying to blame Bloom and I remember plenty at the time of selling Trossard were questioning whether we would have enough attacking players to get us through the season.

The rather odd - we shouldn't have sold Trossard camp - who were extremely quiet expressing this view until Sunday night - don't seem to be able to explain how having Trossard would have also allowed for the breakthrough of Mitoma and his multiple goals and assists and general acclaim as one of the exciting discoveries of the season. He was sold because presumably RDZ looked at Mitoma and Sarmiento (bad luck there but it happens) etc and said all is fine. He was right. One of the key decisions of the season. Disengenous to now say in hindsight after a couple of frustrating results - someone dropped a clanger.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’m not really sure your logic works when you consider our last 3 managers have all required very different things from players positionally and in terms of their interpretation of space. You only have to look at how March has been used by all 3 of them to see the differences. But there are a number of other examples throughout the squad.

We’re moving towards a direction the club want, but the evolution of the playing squad, in terms of positional requirements and composition will always develop over time and from manager to manager, as we evolve.

Either way my original point stands. We have a squad built for Potter but being used well by RDZ… but there are squad depth and positional issues that I’m sure he would like to have solved over the summer internally or externally.

I kind of think Solly illustrates the opposite point to the one you are making. One player, used in three different positions by three managers. No replacement needed when the Coach changed. As @Bold Seagull pointed out we buy and develop players that can emulate such tactical flexibility. Coaches are hired to work with the squad as is.

 

[WATFORD zero]

There's a few on here talking of RDZ knowing the additions to the squad he wants and even the specific players. Doesn't RDZ recently letting his recruitment specialist go rather illustrate the exact opposite. That he is happy with the way recruitment works at the Albion and is very confident he can work with the players it identifies

 

[Hamilton]

I think we lack experience. That's different to depth. Depth suggests that we don't have the strength. On their day, young players like Ensico, Buananotte, Sarmiento, Colwill, Ayari etc. they can all be brilliant. But, they haven't been in this situation before. They lack the experience of going into games where the pressure is on. They aren't immune to the fact that this club is in a unique position or that it is offering them a unique stepping stone. The danger is that they freeze, over-play, try to hard, whatever it is, and we miss opportunities.

In depth, we do have the skilled players we need. What we need to do is get calm heads on them. Last night, we looked like we were in total control, but in attack we looked like we were snatching at things a little. We needed a calmer head up there. I think that we lacked a Lallana calling the shots with the front players.

Our leader at the back is brilliant, but he can't influence what's happening up front. Alexis and Caicedo are also brilliant, but they're not the generals who are influencing all the front players. There was all the ability up front last night, but no cohesion.

Anyhow, we're in the top half of the table and we can still control our own destiny. If we finish in a European place, I think we will have over-achieved quite massively.

 

[Bozza]

Then don't have Gilmour on the bench if he's shite

I'm not saying he's shite.

You're saying RDZ has made a mistake by not playing him, but how do you know that.

If he's not kicked a ball in 13 games, including a time when we are stretched, tired and leggy, then it kinda implies to me that the people who seem him every day in training don't think he can do the job they want him to do.

Maybe RDZ has made a mistake with Gilmour - I just don't know how any of us could possibly know that.

 

[Black Rod]

The rather odd - we shouldn't have sold Trossard camp - who were extremely quiet expressing this view until Sunday night - don't seem to be able to explain how having Trossard would have also allowed for the breakthrough of Mitoma and his multiple goals and assists and general acclaim as one of the exciting discoveries of the season. He was sold because presumably RDZ looked at Mitoma and Sarmiento (bad luck there but it happens) etc and said all is fine. He was right. One of the key decisions of the season. Disengenous to now say in hindsight after a couple of frustrating results - someone dropped a clanger.

De Zerbi used Trossard mainly as a centre forward, so there was room for both him and Mitoma - as we saw from the Chelsea game onwards when Mitoma made his first league start.

The point about Trossard is that by selling him, we were left with only an 18 year old who needs to have his game time carefully managed so he doesn't burn out and a 32 year old who needs to have his game time carefully managed because he has had injury issues in the past.

De Zerbi might only play one up front, but to try and navigate half a season with two strikers neither of whom can or should play every week was always going to be a gamble.

For what it's worth, I think the club's hands were tied somewhat by Trossard and they had to sell. But the fact is it still left us short up front.

 

[chaileyjem]

De Zerbi used Trossard mainly as a centre forward, so there was room for both him and Mitoma - as we saw from the Chelsea game onwards when Mitoma made his first league start.

The point about Trossard is that by selling him, we were left with only an 18 year old who needs to have his game time carefully managed so he doesn't burn out and a 32 year old who needs to have his game time carefully managed because he has had injury issues in the past.

We've been left with a frontline of Ferguson (breakthrough striker of the season and fit for Saturday as it happens), Welbeck (made appearances in 30 out of 37 games this season), Mitoma (breakthrough player of the PL season), and March (in the form of his life), let alone Enciso. You make the hatfuls of gaols this lot have scored or made sound like its no different to the days of Chris O Grady and Leon Best .

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

But is Gilmour an adequate replacement for Caicedo? The others I agree with

Would be nice to find out!

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

OK, I'm pleased to announce that we now have a full and fit squad . . . . of NCS members signed up to a suicide pact.

Form an orderly queue over there, somewhere. There....that's lovely. And I'll be over with a bucket of cyanide for you . . . shortly.

Too knackered to queue

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The rather odd - we shouldn't have sold Trossard camp - who were extremely quiet expressing this view until Sunday night - don't seem to be able to explain how having Trossard would have also allowed for the breakthrough of Mitoma and his multiple goals and assists and general acclaim as one of the exciting discoveries of the season. He was sold because presumably RDZ looked at Mitoma and Sarmiento (bad luck there but it happens) etc and said all is fine. He was right. One of the key decisions of the season. Disengenous to now say in hindsight after a couple of frustrating results - someone dropped a clanger.

I'm not in that camp. I said something completely different.

That the loss of Leo, combined with having lost Mwepu, left us vulnerable to a fixture pile up run of injuries or loss of form in attacking positions. Luckily loss of form hasn't happened, (and happily some young players have stepped up) but players with a career record of being injured a lot have got injured and now we're scrabbling around and in my view coming overly reliant on teenagers to win us PL games.

It's not the loss of particular players that's the issue, this is part of football, it's that we took a risk by not replacing.

And for the umpteeth time, i'm not having a pop at anyone at the club. I will guess that RDZ is making very similar points to the board this week that I am to you.

 

[chaileyjem]

I'm not in that camp. I said something completely different.

That the loss of Leo, combined with having lost Mwepu, left us vulnerable to a fixture pile up run of injuries or loss of form in attacking positions. Luckily loss of form hasn't happened, (and happily some young players have stepped up) but players with a career record of being injured a lot have got injured and now we're scrabbling around and in my view coming overly reliant on teenagers to win us PL games.

It's not the loss of particular players that's the issue, this is part of football, it's that we took a risk by not replacing.

And for the umpteeth time, i'm not having a pop at anyone at the club. I will guess that RDZ is making very similar points to the board this week that I am to you.

Who did Ferguson, Mitoma , Sarmiento, and Enciso "replace" when they joined the club.

 

[Littlemo]

I'm not saying he's shite.

You're saying RDZ has made a mistake by not playing him, but how do you know that.

If he's not kicked a ball in 13 games, including a time when we are stretched, tired and leggy, then it kinda implies to me that the people who seem him every day in training don't think he can do the job they want him to do.

Maybe RDZ has made a mistake with Gilmour - I just don't know how any of us could possibly know that.

I think that where you have players like Van Hecke, Gilmour etc who are not in the first 11, but have a bit more experience than some of the kids, then it might have been a bit more pragmatic to give them a reasonable amount of minutes, even as a sub. At the end of the day, however good they are, they are the subs we have.

This could keep them at a decent level of match fitness and to have them ready for times like this, where you need to rotate. Yes they might not be at the level of player they would replace but neither of them have been terrible in the games they have played for us. The problem is that no player does well sitting on a bench for months and then getting chucked in, if these guys are our subs, then RDZ needs to plan for the time we have to use them.

 

[sagaman]

Was extremely disappointed by Colvill worse performance from him when he should have freshened the defence up

Would like to have seen Gilmour on as sub at 60 minutes to allow one of the knackered mid fielders have a break Also Veltman, unless he is not fully fit

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We've been left with a frontline of Ferguson (breakthrough striker of the season and fit for Saturday as it happens), Welbeck (made appearances in 30 out of 37 games this season), Mitoma (breakthrough player of the PL season), and March (in the form of his life), let alone Enciso. You make the hatfuls of gaols this lot have scored or made sound like its no different to the days of Chris O Grady and Leon Best .

Or you could look at it. Ferguson. At 18 years old we look nowhere near the team without him than we do with him, Welbeck, spent more of his career injured than fit and doesn't look near being able to play 90 mins. Mitoma, brilliant, but has been overused as we have no replacement and is now visibly knackered and March, the same as Mitoma. Enciso, again brilliant, but at that age should he be the spearhead? Brilliant that these young players are getting minutes and wonderful to see their development, but with developing young players, you really should be bringing them in, then bringing them out. We don't have the numbers to do this.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

My overriding thought after reading all of this lot is thank GOD the 'depth-lacking' squad has performed so admirably over the course of the season because it if hadn't this place would have been UNBEARABLE from September – especially after Potter-gate

All that talk of possible CL qualification (and zero discussion about squad depth – or lack of it) seems like a LONG time ago...

 

[chaileyjem]

Or you could look at it. Ferguson. At 18 years old we look nowhere near the team without him than we do with him, Welbeck, spent more of his career injured than fit and doesn't look near being able to play 90 mins. Mitoma, brilliant, but has been overused as we have no replacement and is now visibly knackered and March, the same as Mitoma. Enciso, again brilliant, but at that age should he be the spearhead? Brilliant that these young players are getting minutes and wonderful to see their development, but with developing young players, you really should be bringing them in, then bringing them out. We don't have the numbers to do this.

What have the likes of too young, too old, too injured, too tired Mitoma, Ferguson, Welbeck, March and their 50 goals and assists this season - and all likely to feature on Saturday - ever done for us ? Ha ha.