[Albion] Lack of squad depth will cost us

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Welbeck has started 18 Premier League games this season - mostly because RDZ has preferred Ferguson not injury/fitness - and missed just a handful of squads. And do you really think players "love injuries" or are "injury prone". Someone kicked Lamptey's knee in a game and its taken a while to recover from. Is that his fault - and by implication - which is what i think you're saying - the club's fault for signing players who might get injured.

Welbeck is injury prone. Has been his entire career. We've got slightly more games out of him than most but you can't rely on him to be fit, as is the case with about 20% of our already quite thin squad. He has to be closely managed because he's susceptible to injury

I'm not saying it's Lamptey's fault that he's injury prone - but all evidence suggests he is too.

Of course they don't actually love being injured it's an expression, jeez.

The point was, a thin squad is a gamble. It's paid off up until now but at the business end as the games come thick and fast, we look short.

Would be nice if the club told is what's going on with Lallana, he's been back in training for weeks.

 

[chaileyjem]

Welbeck is injury prone. Has been his entire career. We've got slightly more games out of him than most but you can't rely on him to be fit, as is the case with about 20% of our already quite thin squad. He has to be closely managed because he's susceptible to injury

Welbeck has played nearly 75 times for the Albion He's been a great signing given he came on a free. He's never been out for more than a handful of games a season at Brighton in three years. But he's still being called "injury prone" and you seem to be saying he's too much of a risk . Is he ?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Then don't have Gilmour on the bench if he's shite

Has he said hes shite?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Lack of squad depth is really doing in Chelsea

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

In my view, a conversation about squad depth is a legitimate one. The great majority here aren't trying to blame Bloom and I remember plenty at the time of selling Trossard were questioning whether we would have enough attacking players to get us through the season.

I repeat, no blame to the club, but I hope they are having the same conversations about the numbers needed to get through a PL season and hopefully have a crack at getting to Europe and a decent cup run. My opinion, as a fan, is that we are 3 or 4 players short who RDZ feels he can use.

In my view also, the injury luck we've had is about par. We're unlucky they seem to have been concentrated in particular positions, but lucky they haven't come to our 4 or 5 irreplaceable players and also lucky that some of our young players have hit the ground running as they have.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

We have a squad built for playing progressive, entertaining, attacking football. De Zerbi was hired because his style and methods matched what we have. He probably jumped at the job looking at a squad that he could instill his way of playing into. A lucky semi defeat on pens, 49 points from 30 games, 55 goals, some of the most attacking play in Europe. Really does explain the weaknesses.

I’m talking about the composition of positions. Potter played a 343 predominantly, often without wingers and a recognised centre forward. RDZ plays 4231 with wingers and a recognised CF, and natural full backs.

My comment wasn’t a criticism of our style of play, it was a constructive analysis of how our squad building needs have changed with the change in manager.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Welbeck has played nearly 75 times for the Albion He's been a great signing given he came on a free. He's never been out for more than a handful of games a season at Brighton in three years. But he's still being called "injury prone" and you seem to be saying he's too much of a risk . Is he ?

What are you trying to create an argument about? I note you didn't say anything on here for over a month while we were winning every week. Has the Bot alert gone off again now we've lost a couple of games ?

On a thread about our squad not being big enough, I've pointed out that it’s not big enough when you consider how many players we have who need their minutes managed or are injury prone.

Fortunately some players, Dunk, Gross for example, are not.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I think it is the other way around. The club determine the strategy. The Recruitment Team buy the players. Potter was employed to coach the team because he was able to persuade Tony at interview that he was able to execute the strategy. Same deal with RDZ. The players we have fit the coaching of RDZ perfectly. If they didn’t we wouldn’t be having our best season ever.

The strategy is similar, but the requirements of the players positionally is slightly different in a number of positions. We could go into the tactical nuances of this in great detail, and I do love a tactical discussion, but the simple reality is we’re short in some positions now because when the squad building was happening last season, it was for a manager that players 343 predominantly. That’s simply not the case now. We didn’t play wingers before. We do now. We played 3 CBs previously, we now play 2. We played wing backs before, we now play with full backs.

All of these changes mean different interpretations of space and movement, and we have some players who are versatile enough to cover positions we don’t have loads of depth in, but realistically we’re short in a few positions in the system RDZ plays, because the squad was built for a manager who played players in a different formation.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think our players can play in RDZs style though. Quite to the contrary in fact.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Seems to have worked out pretty well for him so far

Sure, but slight improvements will aid us even more.

 

[Springal]

In my view, a conversation about squad depth is a legitimate one. The great majority here aren't trying to blame Bloom and I remember plenty at the time of selling Trossard were questioning whether we would have enough attacking players to get us through the season.

I repeat, no blame to the club, but I hope they are having the same conversations about the numbers needed to get through a PL season and hopefully have a crack at getting to Europe and a decent cup run. My opinion, as a fan, is that we are 3 or 4 players short who RDZ feels he can use.

In my view also, the injury luck we've had is about par. We're unlucky they seem to have been concentrated in particular positions, but lucky they haven't come to our 4 or 5 irreplaceable players and also lucky that some of our young players have hit the ground running as they have.

How can Brentford and Villa have used the same or less players than us but be doing as well / better ? And Villa have that donkey (according to NSC) Mings at CB

 

[Greg Bobkin]

To an extent, I would argue the 'depth' of the squad is subjective. It isn't full of tried and tested players who have played x number of matches at the highest level, but instead a mix of those players and also new, young talent that is destined (hopefully) for huge things. The squad mix is indicative of the business model for the club – essentially to make a big profit by offering a platform for these young'uns to go on to 'the next level'.

So, in one way, there is depth, but in the mid/long term.

Just like the whole 'we need to spaff X amount on a striker' being nonsense when other players are chipping in with goals, IF we had a few fewer injuries, no-one would be talking about depth of squad. But it isn't, so the players who remain are tasked with doing more. We aren't the type of club that could accommodate 25 superstars, so the hierarchy to work within the boundaries set. That means young players, gambles and elder statesmen such as Lallana and Welbz.

Don't forget this is the same group that took Manchester United to penalties in an FA Cup Final and beat Chelsea the game before (mind you, every other fecker is doing that too!). They haven't become gash overnight, they just had an off night due to a number of factors, such as fatigue, relegation-threatened opposition, noisy home support and probably a few other things. Bounce back against Wolves and all (most) will be forgotten.

 

[A1X]

How can Brentford and Villa have used the same or less players than us but be doing as well / better ? And Villa have that donkey (according to NSC) Mings at CB

Both teams were knocked out of the FA Cup at the third round stage and haven't seen anything like the concertina-ing of fixtures as a result

 

[kevo]

Unfortunately to many on here thought our kids could step in and replace quality players like Trossard and Mwepu. Lamptey now out for the season also.
I still believe it will come down to last game to see if we qualify for Europe.

With our games in hand I think it's unlikely Villa will be more than three points ahead of us going into that match - so I think this will almost certainly be the case. That could be our 'cup final'.

 

[wellquickwoody]

You have completely misunderstood @Bold Seagull

This thread, looking for physical, mental and metaphysical reasons why we lost one game, as if it has revealed a Great Truth about the state of the Albion, is absolutely pathetic.

I think we should sack the board now, and bring in someone with some real money, and stop pissing about.

Or maybe we should just get used to the fact we are just little old Brighton.

Or maybe we should, er, yes, sack the board for not bringing in a proven striker. Insert BW2 (anywhere).

Whatever - there must be a reason, and if there is a reason there must be a cure. And blame.

Or.....perhaps not.

I'm in the perhaps not camp.

It will take more than one shit result to dent my belief in the club and its doings, in this, the best of all seasons.

So far.

So, there.

Whatever you say fella…….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

How can Brentford and Villa have used the same or less players than us but be doing as well / better ? And Villa have that donkey (according to NSC) Mings at CB

Well, squad size is about managing risks isn't it? The risk you'll have more games that you expect, or that they will be more concentrated than usual, or the risk that the injuries when they come will come to players you can't replace or will happen to players in similar positions at the same time.

There's also risks the other way, you can spend money unsustainably, or you can have unhappy not playing players.

There's a balance to be found. And it's legitimate to have a conversation on a public forum about where we should strike that balance.

My view, was and is, that having lost two senior attacking players by January, it was chancey relying on the number of players we had, given some had a career history of injuries and most of the others were inexperienced at PL. We got away with this to a degree due to the incredible adaptation to the PL by Evan and latterly Enciso, but other players with a record of injuries did get injured. That's not entirely just bad luck and I hope the club and RDZ are having constructive conversations about this.

As for Villa and Brentford, well they've not had the cup runs and they've had their PL games more spaced out I suppose, and without being an expert I guess the players they have had out have been more spread around pitch positions enabling them to cope. And Mings isn't a donkey. He's just not good enough for England.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The strategy is similar, but the requirements of the players positionally is slightly different in a number of positions. We could go into the tactical nuances of this in great detail, and I do love a tactical discussion, but the simple reality is we’re short in some positions now because when the squad building was happening last season, it was for a manager that players 343 predominantly. That’s simply not the case now. We didn’t play wingers before. We do now. We played 3 CBs previously, we now play 2. We played wing backs before, we now play with full backs.

All of these changes mean different interpretations of space and movement, and we have some players who are versatile enough to cover positions we don’t have loads of depth in, but realistically we’re short in a few positions in the system RDZ plays, because the squad was built for a manager who played players in a different formation.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think our players can play in RDZs style though. Quite to the contrary in fact.

All well and good but if the manager leaves anytime soon we may then ‘need’ a different combination of players. Clubs have problems when they change the plan to fit in with coaches rather than the other way around. Nothing wrong with developing the squad over time but RDZ will need to fit in with the bigger picture.

 

[Bold Seagull]

All well and good but if the manager leaves anytime soon we may then ‘need’ a different combination of players. Clubs have problems when they change the plan to fit in with coaches rather than the other way around. Nothing wrong with developing the squad over time but RDZ will need to fit in with the bigger picture.

Agreed. Both Potter and RDZ have been very flexible tactically to shape the system to the strength of the squad available. RDZ has pretty much played every combination of 4 at the back whether 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 and his seemingly preferred 4-2-3-1.

I think we buy players because we think they're going to be quality footballers, not because they are going to fit a specific requirement. That's why we've had players who have been able to adapt, like Dan Burn, Solly, Cucurella, Trossard, Gross etc. to playing a variety of positions and tactics.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

With our games in hand I think it's unlikely Villa will be more than three points ahead of us going into that match - so I think this will almost certainly be the case. That could be our 'cup final'.

It's looking like that isn't it. We retain +10 gd over them, so highly likely that as long as we can stay within 3 points of them, we can go there, beat them on the final day and take a precious league position above them.

I actually think if we go there needing a draw, we won't get it. Go there needing to win, I think we might.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Agreed. Both Potter and RDZ have been very flexible tactically to shape the system to the strength of the squad available. RDZ has pretty much played every combination of 4 at the back whether 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 and his seemingly preferred 4-2-3-1.

I think we buy players because we think they're going to be quality footballers, not because they are going to fit a specific requirement. That's why we've had players who have been able to adapt, like Dan Burn, Solly, Cucurella, Trossard, Gross etc. to playing a variety of positions and tactics.

But it remains to be seen whether RDZ has played the formations he has because he got the player's he's got or that is actually the system he wants to play. We also have players who haven't fared as well with 4 at the back. Lamptey and to a lesser extent Webby.

I personally think RDZ will have very definite ideas about the players and the positions they occupy who he will want in this summer.

 

[Mancgull]

For me it's the mental concentration more than the physical effort - the way we play out from the back demands 100% concentration...it must be exhausting... especially when we don't take our chances

Completely agree. For once Moises was caught out for their second goal. I’m sure it was due to mental concentration levels being off his norm.