[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[The Clamp]

I find it staggering that this is the Labour Party doing this.

Tory Party - yep, I would understand if it was them doing this.

In truth, it’s the Tory’s that have done it. They caused the economy to tank.

Having said that, it’s about time pensioners sucked up a bit of the cost. They’ve had it far too good for far too long.

And it’s means tested. If you can’t afford to heat your house, you’ll get the help.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It is astonishing to me that given the parlous state of the public finances the first people a Labour government want to hit are freezing pensioners and hungry kids.

It's performative gesture politics where making "tough choices" is seen some rite of passage for a macho style of government. It is quite frankly pathetic. Getting rid of WFP and keeping the two child cap are choices, other choices are available.

Other than the addition of VAT on private school fees I fail to see any "tough choices" being made that actually affect people that DO have money.

Stop tarring all pensiners with the same brush

(1) Absolutlety agree - one of the reason they were booted out.

(2) Agree again - but there are over a million who are not on pension credit who will be worse £300.00 worse off

(3) Remind me - when do fuel bills go up? - When do pensions increase?

To an extent I agree with both of you. However, since the Tories increased tax (while pretending to cut it), Labour were forced into a position of not increasing NI or Income Tax. It's what people voted for. So where else is the money to balance the budget coming from?

I see this as short term austerity to fix a long term problem. Labour have said they'll pay for a lot of stuff by growing the economy, and doing that will help the whole country, kids and pensioners included. If they haven't done that in five years they won't get back in and they'll probably lose my vote.

 

[KZNSeagull]

And if we're going to go down the Covid route the previous government's incompetence / helping out their mates saw 4 billion pounds worth of useless PPE in the UK. Source? The UK Parliament itself.

Labour aren't taking away this payment from ALL old people (despite the press reporting that is at best misleading) and I'd expect most pensioners in Whitehawk to qualify for Pension Credit. One of the things this has done is raise awareness that this should be being claimed where it wasn't, but people who are entitled to it weren't claiming. Those people will suddenly find themselves with extra money via the credit, another rise in their pension next year thanks to preserving triple lock and keeping their Winter Heating payments.

There are some on the cusp who will be worse off till the next triple lock kicks in. There are plenty with comfortable pensions in houses with hundreds of thousands of equity crying over 300 quid.

Are the government going to automatically give them pension credits then as Martin Lewis is not so sure (from his Facebook post this morning):

Good news. The full state pension is to rise £460 a year next year due to the triple lock. That is a real rise of about £200 above inflation. Yet there are 2 things I'd point out in the context of the debate about the winter fuel payment.
1. That starts next April. This winter most pensioners are facing (looking at energy bills alone) a typical £500 higher cost compared to last (energy bills are £100ish cheaper, but no £300 cost of living payment, no up to £300 winter fuel payment)
2. The full state pension rise is for those who get the full state pension. There are up to 800,000 of the poorest pensioners who get less than the full state pension (£11,400 a year) who aren't claiming pension credit and will miss out on the winter fuel payment even though they should get it. They are very hard to reach and will be under huge financial pressure.
These are therefore people the govt said should be helped but due to difficulties in the system won't be. These are the people I'm most worried about, some of whom may end up choosing between heating and eating.
Update: The £460 rise is for the 'new' state pension - only 1 in 4 pensioners are on it. The 'old' state pension also has the triple lock but as it is starts at a lower base the rise will be smaller (thanks to Paul Lewis of Moneybox for noting that to me)

 

[Javeaseagull]

I find it staggering that this is the Labour Party doing this.

Tory Party - yep, I would understand if it was them doing this.

The Tories knew what had to be done but chose to pick on the Brit pensioners living overseas of which I am one. The reason I felt it unfair is that my brother in the UK continued to get it even though his heating bills were lower than mine. They went for the low hanging fruit but did not have balls to go all the way.

 

[pocketseagull]

Labour were forced into a position of not increasing NI or Income Tax.

No-one forced them to do this, it was their decision to adopt the policy. Tbh I don't think promising to raise taxes for the highest earners would've changed the winner of the election, the Tories were done.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Labour refuses to publish impact assessment of winter fuel payment cuts until after MPs have voted

 

[The Clamp]

The problem, of course, was that the Tory’s reaction to Covid was to throw money at everyone. Unchecked, unaccounted for.

I’m guessing the theory was that if they chuck money at people they won’t ask questions about how the government is handling the crisis.

People with plenty of money were being paid to stay at home. Or getting paid twice on a lot of cases as they continued to work from home and receive furlough.

Pensioners and the unemployed were having cost of living payments thrown at them.

People who work and get universal credit were being paid hundreds every few months in COL payments. It was insane. And they lapped it up. Like hungry little lords.

It left a huge gap in the budget and debt that needs to be paid.

It’s only fair that those who got the most help then, now help out the rest of the country and take the hit.

Fairs fair.

 

[Hotchilidog]

To an extent I agree with both of you. However, since the Tories increased tax (while pretending to cut it), Labour were forced into a position of not increasing NI or Income Tax. It's what people voted for. So where else is the money to balance the budget coming from?

I see this as short term austerity to fix a long term problem. Labour have said they'll pay for a lot of stuff by growing the economy, and doing that will help the whole country, kids and pensioners included. If they haven't done that in five years they won't get back in and they'll probably lose my vote.

The notion that this measure is the only one in town is risible. Other choices are available, equalising CGT, wealth taxes on the millionaire class as well as others. There is a debate to be had here about possible solutions but the government is not interested in engaging in it.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

To an extent I agree with both of you. However, since the Tories increased tax (while pretending to cut it), Labour were forced into a position of not increasing NI or Income Tax. It's what people voted for. So where else is the money to balance the budget coming from?

I see this as short term austerity to fix a long term problem. Labour have said they'll pay for a lot of stuff by growing the economy, and doing that will help the whole country, kids and pensioners included. If they haven't done that in five years they won't get back in and they'll probably lose my vote.

I just feel this short term austerity is hitting the wrong people.

 

[The Clamp]

“Pensioners don’t like having to pay their way” shocker!!

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

The problem, of course, was that the Tory’s reaction to Covid was to throw money at everyone. Unchecked, unaccounted for.

I’m guessing the theory was that if they chuck money at people they won’t ask questions about how the government is handling the crisis.

People with plenty of money were being paid to stay at home. Or getting paid twice on a lot of cases as they continued to work from home and receive furlough.

Pensioners and the unemployed were having cost of living payments thrown at them.

People who work and get universal credit were being paid hundreds every few months in COL payments. It was insane. And they lapped it up. Like hungry little lords.

It left a huge gap in the budget and debt that needs to be paid.

It’s only fair that those who got the most help then, now help out the rest of the country and take the hit.

Fairs fair.

Agree with pretty much all ofthat.

Ok - so why single out pensioners?

 

[beorhthelm]

The notion that this measure is the only one in town is risible. Other choices are available, equalising CGT, wealth taxes on the millionaire class as well as others. There is a debate to be had here about possible solutions but the government is not interested in engaging in it.

those choices and others (e.g. employers NI, pension relief) are still to come. that's what makes WFP so odd to lead with, and doesn't even raise much on it's own.

 

[The Clamp]

Agree with pretty much all ofthat.

Ok - so why single out pensioners?

Because Labour absolutely f***ing hate old people and want the country to turn against the government?









Not likely to be the reason is it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The notion that this measure is the only one in town is risible. Other choices are available, equalising CGT, wealth taxes on the millionaire class as well as others. There is a debate to be had here about possible solutions but the government is not interested in engaging in it.

There's still a budget to come and they might do some or all of that in that budget. It's 22 billion quid we're looking for, not change down the back of the sofa.

 

[Hotchilidog]

There's still a budget to come and they might do some or all of that in that budget. It's 22 billion quid we're looking for, not change down the back of the sofa.

And they've known about it for ages and failed to come up with a credible plan for it in the election campaign and manifesto. No-one expects the Tory mess to be fixed instantly, not even I. I do however expect a more serious response than we have to take away winter fuel payments from Pensioners or the economy will crash.

 

[Bozza]

It is astonishing to me that given the parlous state of the public finances the first people a Labour government want to hit are freezing pensioners and hungry kids.

It's performative gesture politics where making "tough choices" is seen some rite of passage for a macho style of government. It is quite frankly pathetic. Getting rid of WFP and keeping the two child cap are choices, other choices are available.

Other than the addition of VAT on private school fees I fail to see any "tough choices" being made that actually affect people that DO have money.

Much of the discussion from Labour ministers around this policy has included the terms "forced to" and "no choice".

As you say, that is absolute bollocks of the highest order.

Starmer, Reeves et al have an array of choices available to them. It is absolutely their right to make the choices they view as best, so man up and own it fully, without made-up excuses.

The optics are difficult when Age UK are running a petition against you, and your union mates are threatening industrial action.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Be interesting to see which Labour MPs vote against it or abstain.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Much of the discussion from Labour ministers around this policy has included the terms "forced to" and "no choice".

As you say, that is absolute bollocks of the highest order.

Starmer, Reeves et al have an array of choices available to them. It is absolutely their right to make the choices they view as best, so man up and own it fully, without made-up excuses.

The optics are difficult when Age UK are running a petition against you, and your union mates are threatening industrial action.

100% this, this and this.

 

[Bozza]

Be interesting to see which Labour MPs vote against it or abstain.

Very few, if any, will vote against and there seems growing confidence that abstentions will be relatively low.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And they've known about it for ages and failed to come up with a credible plan for it in the election campaign and manifesto. No-one expects the Tory mess to be fixed instantly, not even I. I do however expect a more serious response than we have to take away winter fuel payments from Pensioners or the economy will crash.

They said they'd only discovered the full extent of it AFTER the election.

Full Fact states that, in fact, that position is a compromise. Before the election it was thought 10-20 billion by 2029 would be the issue. The audit was after the election and the in year pressures 'were greater than could be predicted from the outside'. However, that there was a 'black hole' existing was 'entirely predictable'.

Is there a £22 billion ‘black hole’ in the public finances? - Full Fact

In a speech in the Downing Street garden today, the Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said there’s a “£22 billion black hole in the public finances”. We’d…

fullfact.org