[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[keaton]

They're going after the state schools as well. There appears to be strong support for closing academies, for the same reason as they closed grammar schools - because they think it's better that everyone's education is equally poor rather than some have poor education and some have good.

Funnily enough, for all their support of comprehensive education, Labour have never had a PM educated at a comprehensive school. The Tories have, but Liz Truss is hardly the poster child for that sort of background. Perhaps the reason Labour leaders have always been so keen to pull up the drawbridge, to prevent other people's children having the advantages they had, is to avoid challenge from people as well educated as they are?

Any evidence they want to close academies?

That's before we get into any discussion over whether academies are better

 

[dsr-burnley]

Any evidence they want to close academies?

That's before we get into any discussion over whether academies are better

Labour wants local authorities to have power to shut undersubscribed academy schools

Proposals are a response to falling pupil numbers and a reversal of Michael Gove’s education reforms

www.telegraph.co.uk

Labour plans schools bill change to reduce academy freedom

Opposition seizes on government infighting - finally revealing its own plans for academies

schoolsweek.co.uk

And we can at least argue that academies are no worse, because if they were they would be closing. If academies can't attract pupils the local authority won't (can't) send children there against their will. Academies seem to be popular with parents, which is at least a sign that they're doing well.

 

[keaton]

Labour wants local authorities to have power to shut undersubscribed academy schools

Proposals are a response to falling pupil numbers and a reversal of Michael Gove’s education reforms

www.telegraph.co.uk

Labour plans schools bill change to reduce academy freedom

Opposition seizes on government infighting - finally revealing its own plans for academies

schoolsweek.co.uk

And we can at least argue that academies are no worse, because if they were they would be closing. If academies can't attract pupils the local authority won't (can't) send children there against their will. Academies seem to be popular with parents, which is at least a sign that they're doing well.

That's not closing academies is it though is it?

And yes the local authority can send children to academies against their will

And I've never heard a parent say " I'm concerned about the local school as it's not an academy" whereas I've heard the opposite a lot.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

They're going after the state schools as well. There appears to be strong support for closing academies, for the same reason as they closed grammar schools - because they think it's better that everyone's education is equally poor rather than some have poor education and some have good.

Funnily enough, for all their support of comprehensive education, Labour have never had a PM educated at a comprehensive school. The Tories have, but Liz Truss is hardly the poster child for that sort of background. Perhaps the reason Labour leaders have always been so keen to pull up the drawbridge, to prevent other people's children having the advantages they had, is to avoid challenge from people as well educated as they are?

They're going after the state schools as well. There appears to be strong support for closing academies, for the same reason as they closed grammar schools - because they think it's better that everyone's education is equally poor rather than some have poor education and some have good.

Funnily enough, for all their support of comprehensive education, Labour have never had a PM educated at a comprehensive school. The Tories have, but Liz Truss is hardly the poster child for that sort of background. Perhaps the reason Labour leaders have always been so keen to pull up the drawbridge, to prevent other people's children having the advantages they had, is to avoid challenge from people as well educated as they are?

Having been to a grammar school - admittedly in the 1960s - my two daughters received a much better education than i did at the local comprehensive. My 12 year old granddaughter, who is very intelligent, is revelling in her first year of comprehensive education in Wales.

and there are instances of academies closing because they are not sustainable -lack of support. Just because something has a fancy name doesn’t make it any better. I wonder if we might have been better off if academy status had never been introduced.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Having been to a grammar school - admittedly in the 1960s - my two daughters received a much better education than i did at the local comprehensive. My 12 year old granddaughter, who is very intelligent, is revelling in her first year of comprehensive education in Wales.

and there are instances of academies closing because they are not sustainable -lack of support. Just because something has a fancy name doesn’t make it any better. I wonder if we might have been better off if academy status had never been introduced.

We'd be best off with a great variety of schools. Big schools, small ones, educational sausage factories, technical schools, acadamies, private schools, special schools, and yes, even comprehensive schools.

Starting out with the principle that all children should have the same education, is senseless to me. Not all children have the same needs.

 

[aolstudios]

We'd be best off with a great variety of schools. Big schools, small ones, educational sausage factories, technical schools, acadamies, private schools, special schools, and yes, even comprehensive schools.

Starting out with the principle that all children should have the same education, is senseless to me. Not all children have the same needs.

Do children of rich people have more needs?

 

[Bozza]

We'd be best off with a great variety of schools. Big schools, small ones, educational sausage factories, technical schools, acadamies, private schools, special schools, and yes, even comprehensive schools.

The sausages should be released from the factories NOW.

 

[Guinness Boy]

We'd be best off with a great variety of schools. Big schools, small ones, educational sausage factories, technical schools, acadamies, private schools, special schools, and yes, even comprehensive schools.

Starting out with the principle that all children should have the same education, is senseless to me. Not all children have the same needs.

In a country where the whole place stops twice a summer to judge an entire country's year group's exam results and where even basic office jobs are now gate kept with the need for a degree then I'd say all children do, indeed have the same needs as far as our country's attainment systems work. And technical schools? Why on earth should we button-hole what a child will do in later life when they hit the age of 11. The 11 plus was a made up fallacy with no actual scientific evidence.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

We'd be best off with a great variety of schools. Big schools, small ones, educational sausage factories, technical schools, acadamies, private schools, special schools, and yes, even comprehensive schools.

Starting out with the principle that all children should have the same education, is senseless to me. Not all children have the same needs.

Not all children have the same needs and a good education system will cater for all sorts.

but I personally find it abhorrent that people can get a better education by paying for it. It really annoys me when driving to the AMEX regularly to drive past the entrance to the Lancing College Equestrian Centre.

but then again, not all private education is good, and if people are paying for it and it’s rubbish, more fool them.

 

[beorhthelm]

In a country where the whole place stops twice a summer to judge an entire country's year group's exam results and where even basic office jobs are now gate kept with the need for a degree then I'd say all children do, indeed have the same needs as far as our country's attainment systems work. And technical schools? Why on earth should we button-hole what a child will do in later life when they hit the age of 11. The 11 plus was a made up fallacy with no actual scientific evidence.

what's really a fallacy is the concept of comprehensive education being some uniform experience. in reality you get streamed and once set on a path very difficult to move between streams unless there is a genuine mis-assessment of ability, and the kid and parents make the effort to catch up and force a change.

 

[Guinness Boy]

what's really a fallacy is the concept of comprehensive education being some uniform experience. in reality you get streamed and once set on a path very difficult to move between streams unless there is a genuine mis-assessment of ability, and the kid and parents make the effort to catch up and force a change.

But I didn’t say it was a uniform experience. I said bunging people in a technical college at 11 was mental.

You’ve obviously got to separate pupils in a 200 pupil year group. And you can move between streams because my son did successfully.

 

[dsr-burnley]

But I didn’t say it was a uniform experience. I said bunging people in a technical college at 11 was mental.

You’ve obviously got to separate pupils in a 200 pupil year group. And you can move between streams because my son did successfully.

That's another pet hate of mine. 200 pupils in a year? Why? Why the insistence that schools must be enormous, far too big for any of the staff to know more than a fraction of the pupils? Why not smaller schools - instead of 1,000 or 2,000 pupils in a school, make it 200 or 300 and give parents a bigger choice of schools. Obviosuly if the ginormous schools are popular, then keep them, but if they aren't, then scrap them.

 

[Weststander]

My understanding from chatting with many folk over the years who actually participated in the pre-comps system is that kids didn’t start technical schools at 11.

It was at 14 only after passing a special exam to show an aptitude for engineering or construction.

Until then it was a mainstream education of largely academic subjects.

And the technical schools weren’t a slight on someone’s ability. Far from it. People went on to work through hard exams, ending up skilled engineers or more.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That's another pet hate of mine. 200 pupils in a year? Why? Why the insistence that schools must be enormous, far too big for any of the staff to know more than a fraction of the pupils? Why not smaller schools - instead of 1,000 or 2,000 pupils in a school, make it 200 or 300 and give parents a bigger choice of schools. Obviosuly if the ginormous schools are popular, then keep them, but if they aren't, then scrap them.

Because you’d need to find sites, build them, staff them.

On the one hand it’s good to see you’re in favour of Labour’s planning reforms but, on the other, weren’t you saying you wanted lower taxes? Perhaps you’re in favour of even more stringent cuts to old people’s welfare to pay for all this?

 

[Chicken Run]

Not all children have the same needs and a good education system will cater for all sorts.

but I personally find it abhorrent that people can get a better education by paying for it. It really annoys me when driving to the AMEX regularly to drive past the entrance to the Lancing College Equestrian Centre.

but then again, not all private education is good, and if people are paying for it and it’s rubbish, more fool them.

See it funny how we are all different ( i guess that makes the world a better place) I regularly drive past the Lancing College Horsey place and i think how lovely that must be, and i drop off passengers to the college which involves a sweeping drive through the most incredible sports facilities and i think wow, this is incredible compared to my Old Patcham Fawcett muddy football pitch a gravel red gras

It doesn’t annoy me at all. As for ‘abhorrent’ that people can pay for a better education, so what, technically there should be less kids in the state education system, problem is that the country’s population continues to grow so we don’t see any true benefit of reduced class sizes, same with healthcare same with housing.

This country will be bursting at the seams in the future with a population of nearly 90 million

 

[Super Steve Earle]

what's really a fallacy is the concept of comprehensive education being some uniform experience. in reality you get streamed and once set on a path very difficult to move between streams unless there is a genuine mis-assessment of ability, and the kid and parents make the effort to catch up and force a change.

Sounds like Varndean Grammar in the 60's.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

See it funny how we are all different ( i guess that makes the world a better place) I regularly drive past the Lancing College Horsey place and i think how lovely that must be, and i drop off passengers to the college which involves a sweeping drive through the most incredible sports facilities and i think wow, this is incredible compared to my Old Patcham Fawcett muddy football pitch a gravel red gras

It doesn’t annoy me at all. As for ‘abhorrent’ that people can pay for a better education, so what, technically there should be less kids in the state education system, problem is that the country’s population continues to grow so we don’t see any true benefit of reduced class sizes, same with healthcare same with housing.

This country will be bursting at the seams in the future with a population of nearly 90 million

It’s abhorrent because it’s unfair that people can pay for their children to get a better start in life when they are no better - and quite possibly worse - than other children. I was at Oxford in the 70s, getting there from a grammar school, and not everybody was very clever - one acquaintance of mine who had been at Winchester College and took the Oxbridge entrance exam three times before he passed.

Then there’s the brother of a niece (by marriage) of ours who is as thick as two short planks but got a nice job in the city because of the connections of his army officer father.

and this set against kids at some of the worst schools in Southampton on some of the poorest estates in Southampton who, unless they are exceptional individuals in their own right, won’t have anywhere near the same chances. There are some incredible teachers in some of these schools, but the resources at their disposal are totally inadequate.

I rest my case. M’lud

 

[Chicken Run]

It’s abhorrent because it’s unfair that people can pay for their children to get a better start in life when they are no better - and quite possibly worse - than other children. I was at Oxford in the 70s, getting there from a grammar school, and not everybody was very clever - one acquaintance of mine who had been at Winchester College and took the Oxbridge entrance exam three times before he passed.

Then there’s the brother of a niece (by marriage) of ours who is as thick as two short planks but got a nice job in the city because of the connections of his army officer father.

and this set against kids at some of the worst schools in Southampton on some of the poorest estates in Southampton who, unless they are exceptional individuals in their own right, won’t have anywhere near the same chances. There are some incredible teachers in some of these schools, but the resources at their disposal are totally inadequate.

I rest my case. M’lud

Oh dear Dave, you sound very angry, i’ve accepted where i sit in society and made my peace long ago, there will always be people with more than me but i never forget there are many with less too, so what’s your view on this country’s ageing and ever growing population adding to the ever growing list of ‘Net Takers’ ?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

That's another pet hate of mine. 200 pupils in a year? Why? Why the insistence that schools must be enormous, far too big for any of the staff to know more than a fraction of the pupils? Why not smaller schools - instead of 1,000 or 2,000 pupils in a school, make it 200 or 300 and give parents a bigger choice of schools. Obviosuly if the ginormous schools are popular, then keep them, but if they aren't, then scrap them.

My granddaughter has just started secondary school in Wales - two schools near her, one twice the size of the other. She chose the bigger one 2,000 instead of 1,000. She’s very happy And thriving - bigger choice of subjects, better facilities. It’s the old grammar school where the notable alumni include JPR Williams of Welsh rugby full-back fame.

Plenty of her friends are happy at the other smaller school, but a far smaller secondary school of 200 or 300 pupils would be comparatively enormously expensive to run.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Oh dear Dave, you sound very angry, i’ve accepted where i sit in society and made my peace long ago, there will always be people with more than me but i never forget there are many with less too, so what’s your view on this country’s ageing and ever growing population adding to the ever growing list of ‘Net Takers’ ?

I am angry, but not on my own behalf. we are retired and, while not wealthy, do not need to be worried about the winter fuel payment. Our daughters are fine. The elder one in Wales Works for the Welsh Parliament (Senedd) and so sees what goes on in politics at close hand. Mark Drakeford was her hero, and she is very politically aware, although her position demands that she be neutral.
#2 daughter is a doctor, has just moved from being a GP to taking up a post as a breast surgeon, with which she is very happy. But she has moved from being non-political to being very political because of the state of the health service. She proudly went on strike as a junior doctor.
her partner is a teacher, an extremely good science teacher in a school in one of the poorest parts of Coventry, and she loves her job, has like our daughter moved from being nonpolitical to being angry. She proudly shared an email last week she had received from a former pupil thanking her for what she does and saying she is now teaching another of her siblings - the fourth of 5 and Emma has taught all of them so far. They are Afghan refugees, came here with nothing 20 years ago. The oldest one is now a doctor, the second training to be a dentist, the third a research scientist. So it reinforces our liberal views about immigration. Mrs DiS was the principal until she retired of a sixth form college which took numbers of refugees, and she could come up with numerous similar stories.
it’s just as well some of us are angry. It was Jess Phillips, I think, who a couple of years ago said she likes being angry. It’s a motivator. My anger is on behalf of people who are far worse off than myself, and who were treated like Sh1t by the government which we finally got rid of in July.