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[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn
- Thread starter Blue3
- Start date
And I repeat my point that Capitalists actively undermine left wing governments. If I were a Capitalist I certainly would.
The fact that Truss tanked the economy due to the reaction of the market to her nonsense does not mean that 'the market' does not actively undermine left wing governments.
This is why Blair was so timid and unwilling to use the S word. It worked well enough for two terms, but even I (who liked what Blair did) felt that he should have been increasingly bold with time, rather than lapsing into ever more orthodox Catholicism while allowing Brown to seethe with festering resentment.
Existential angst, apparently:
Jim Davis Explains Why Garfield Loves Lasagna and Hates Mondays and Why People Love Garfield
Cartoonist Jim Davis is the man behind lasagne-loving, Monday-hating Garfield the cat, who lives with his long-suffering owner, Jon, and fellow pet and perennial crossword puzzle clue, Odie the dog.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
I disagree. ‘Capitalism’ (or markets) does (do) not collectively undermine Governments and nor does it collectively do anything else. People make individual investment decisions based on money, not politics. The simple truth is that in the allocation of investment money you need to price risk and if a Government makes itself a riskier creditor then lenders want more interest for their debt. Governments don’t have to pay it but then the money will be lent elsewhere. You can’t simply ignore risk when setting budgets. You also can’t put your fingers in your ears and claim it is unfair.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
If derailing means giving no more airtime to anti scemitism then we are probably doing the thread a favour. Economics is a lot more interesting.There is a poster on here, Garfield or something, who has repeatedly stated that it does not matter how much governments spend or borrow. I can't work out his reasoning and he simply directs my questions to magazine articles (I read one and it is simply unrefereed hyperbole).
Anyway I think we have done enough derailing for now
I stand corrected.
I didn't say it was unfair, though. Back in the day, the main barrier to Labour was the hostile media rather hostile markets. There again....when they put Michael Foot in charge the hostility was understandable.
However, the invention of stories (vide 'council bans baa baa black sheep') gave the impression of a committed conspiracy. In retropect perhaps it was nothing more than a few drucken hacks having a laugh.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
That was deliberate because friends of Kwateng made millions out it.
Talking of robbing us blind, Ms Braverman is claiming £5K a year for her constituency house, which is actually her parents home where she stays rent free.
Suella Braverman claims £25,000 in expenses for bills after 'milking loophole'
One MP said the Home Secretary's claims were within the rules but not 'in the spirit' of them
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
I try so hard to cut the tories a bit of slack, but they just greedily take up the slack, fashion a lovely noose out of it, and (you can guess the rest).That was deliberate because friends of Kwateng made millions out it.
Talking of robbing us blind, Ms Braverman is claiming £5K a year for her constituency house, which is actually her parents home where she stays rent free.
Suella Braverman claims £25,000 in expenses for bills after 'milking loophole'
One MP said the Home Secretary's claims were within the rules but not 'in the spirit' of them
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
I think you just have to differentiate between noise from the press and coldly taken investment decisions taken by global money that is simply looking for best risk reward. Perhaps there was something in what you say about the banking sector influencing policy back in the day when British banks held sway, but not in modern, global markets.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Big energy firms do hold sway especially when there are Tory donors who expect their MPs to follow the lobbying.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Agreed, they do, in the setting of retail prices.
Yes, it's even more of a funny old world than it used to be.
I'm beginning to think that party politics has never been what I thought it was, and that the truth about politicians and the media is some what different from how it may appear.
Even simple things like the 'hidden' agenda of the two main parties is moot. Do labour secretly want every endeavour to be state run? Blair abolished clause 4 but it never really had much traction - what had been state owned had become state owned out of necessity. Then it was accepted by the national consensus. Till Thatcher came along...
And is it really the aim of all tories to dismantle the state, reducing public health and education to subsistence services, mostly run by charities? That was certainly not the plan of 'one nation' tories. I am sure some of them still exist.
I appreciate there are some in each party who do hold such views still but, by and large, when a grown up is party leader, their imperative does not hold sway.
I can see that on and off over the last few years, those who hold a hard and reprehensible position have held undue influence from time to time, and that some government initiatives have reflected this. While labour is drifting back to the middle, the tories continue to flirt with a populist version of a hard right agenda, with crumbs and sops of comfort to the plebs sugaring extreme assistance to the super rich (such as the removal of the pension cap). Or maybe that's just my confirmation bias.
And some will consider I am being unduly generous to one 'side' or the other. Some will say I'm being overly generous to both. That's what I find most difficult - politics is how we elect our governments and yet we are almost trained by the parties to exercise our confirmation biases at all times. Even the lofty 'floating voter' who 'make up (their) mind on the issues of the day' are influenced by the dog-whistling. Some people still love Corbyn. Some loved Johnson and now love Sunak. And Braverman. What to make of it all?
I don't know.
Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 1,063
Labour have for decades been hobnobbing with terrorist types in a way that if a Tory did similar they would be lynched, corbyn being one the main offenders. Sooner or later favoured "freedom fighters" were going to come into conflict with vested interests(At the very least sections of the electorate) one way or another. Maybe its time for Labour to embrace standards rather then double standards so I commend Starmer on sorting this out, now he just has to get to grips with the anti-White and Misandry thats also rampant in Labour.
Like they have with various people involved with Putin?
Try harder.
Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 1,063
Like whom and what did they say? Do they have calls for genocide in their constitution? Do they vilify groups?
Honestly haven't herd anything about Tories sucking up to Putin.
Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 1,063
As Hitchens said, claims made without evidence can be dismissed without any either.
Bye.
Based on your username and the time of day you're posting, and the total crap in the post I originally replied to, you really should be flattered I bothered to engage at all.As Hitchens said, claims made without evidence can be dismissed without any either.
Bye.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,858
Point of order / cast iron bullshit and I'm clearly no fan of Corbyn.
The reality is the Tories were "hobnobbing" with the IRA throughout the 1980s behind the scenes trying to find a resolution, only telling the electorate that they "didn't do deals with terrorists.". They lied, as they lie about other secret forms of "diplomacy" with threats whether that be through the foreign office, the security services or a combination of both. It's what Governments do.
.. and lets face it, The Tories were down in Argentina before the Falklands War trying to offload the islands. If the internet was around back then they'd have probably listed them on eBay.
The likes of Red Ken and Uncle Jeremy were only doing in public what the Tories were doing in private.
It's complete hypocrisy to attack them for doing so.
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Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 1,063
Irony? Based on your username, also the time of day you are posting and your bad faith posting I wouldn't feel flattered in turn if I was you. Watching you back peddle, obfuscate and become increasingly negative has a certain amusement value. I would lay of the booze though if I was you.