[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn

[Weststander]

Never mind all this, I just came back to this thread to see if there was anyway back for Swansman

Anti semites have no place on nsc. No.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Never mind all this, I just came back to this thread to see if there was anyway back for Swansman

Momentum are lining him up as their next Minister for Sport after their inevitable election triumph, having shed Starmer and all the other drags on their success.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Looks like you're engaging in confirmation basis and carelessness in this response.
Corbyn liked or re-tweeted an anti-semitic image. Beyond that, I haven't witnessed anything that demonstrates he's a racist and/or anti-semite. Happy to be shown some evidence, but it would be nice if those that write long posts insisting that he is an anti-semite and/or racist could substantiate their claims.

You are splitting hairs. I stand by what I wrote. I did not accuse him of 'being' a racist (as in like Hitler). Like it or not there is a sliding scale of badness here. Baddiel himself admitted to doing something racist on one of his TV skits years ago. He accepts this and has apologized. One would not expect the leader of a political party in the 2020s to retweet a racist tweet, especially when he has previous in that particular regard, sharing a platform with a member of Hamas. Both episodes could have been carelessness. The best one can say about that is nobody wants a careless leader of the labour party. And then there was his whataboutery. If I can stick it to arseholes in the tory party for their 'carelessness' I can stick it to Corbyn too.

Also, keeping this thread a-bubbling is of questionable value. But I'm as guilty as you in that regard.

I suspect we would realize we are violently agreeing, were we to give our heads a wobble.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree with you up to a point, Hazzer. The other reason he became leader is that - if you remember that Labour Leadership contest - all the other candidates spoke little but management bullshit and vague platitudes. He was the only candidate who actually talked specifics; and Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper in particular should hang their heads in shame as to how they performed.

But he does have no leadership skills, and imho the way he dealt with the Brexit Referendum and it's aftermath in particular shows that. I mean when you consider some of the utter wazzocks and headbangers he has stood on platforms with over the years; but then 'on principle' he wunt get on stage with David Cameron - for all his faults - merely to advocate staying in the EU. Cah! At that point he was dead to me....

I agree, O Screamer. I also agree that the labour leadership had turned into lollipop men and women at that time, offering nothing but a kindly word as they waved all and sundry across the road. Some management bullshit but mostly vending machine repairman soup nozzle polishing. Margaret Beckett and Sadiq Khan held their hand up over putting Corbyn on the leadership ballot. Few others have.

As for Brexit in general, labour started out not believing anything other than remain would result, then disengaged when Corbyn became head of fifth form. Yes, Hamas fine, Cameron nein. The twat.

And yet, now that Starmer has strong-armed himself over party discipline we have the likes of Lansman squealing about lack of party democracy. Demanding the democratic right to be wrong. Playing into tory hands. Except the tories have been too stupid to explot this effectively.

So I'm glad to say that the boot of incompetence appears to be on the other foot, now. The right foot.

 

[Machiavelli]

I would go so far as saying either.

But Cornyn clearly has a blind spot regarding anti-semitism, at least treating as a "lesser form" of racism.

It's his achilles heel.

It's clearly all there in his

1) Nuanced responses to allegations.
2) His defence of the mural (he didn't just "like" it), he likened it to another painting that was destroyed by Rockefeller because it contained an image of Lenin. Corbin is quite happy to conflate the conspiracy of Jewishness, Banking and Capitalism as threats to the working class.
3) The books he chose to write forwards to.
4) His comments at a conference about "zionists" lacking a sense of "English Irony". Whatever Corbyn defines a "zionist" as, they can obviously be English and born here and not the "alien other".
5) Nuanced reaction to Ken Livingstone awful remarks.

I'm sure they are more examples. He is clearly a very nice principled man, but blimey he is stubborn about admitting his faults and correcting them.

Not all your enemies are Blairites or International Bankers Jeremy.

So, not too much then:
1, he handled the anti-semitism issue in his party dreadfully; it wasn't exactly the only thing he handled dreadfully
2, yes, I mentioned that. You can provide a link to the association between Jewishness, banking and capitalism if there is anything of substance. I'm not claiming it doesn't exist, merely that I'm yet to see it
3, such as ... which might be another way of saying and ... much as with HWT
4, yes, that was daft, not sure it's conclusive, but he's set himself up with that
5, is this 1 again?

 

[Machiavelli]

You are splitting hairs. I stand by what I wrote. I did not accuse him of 'being' a racist (as in like Hitler). Like it or not there is a sliding scale of badness here. Baddiel himself admitted to doing something racist on one of his TV skits years ago. He accepts this and has apologized. One would not expect the leader of a political party in the 2020s to retweet a racist tweet, especially when he has previous in that particular regard, sharing a platform with a member of Hamas. Both episodes could have been carelessness. The best one can say about that is nobody wants a careless leader of the labour party. And then there was his whataboutery. If I can stick it to arseholes in the tory party for their 'carelessness' I can stick it to Corbyn too.

Also, keeping this thread a-bubbling is of questionable value. But I'm as guilty as you in that regard.

I suspect we would realize we are violently agreeing, were we to give our heads a wobble.

I can't comment for you, but I really am not guilty of keeping this thread bubbling. I suspect even you can recall my views on Corbyn, yet I really CBA to engage with him.. I hear the association of Corbyn with anti-semitism regularly. I'm yet to see anything of substance to back it up, although (I suspect) off the cuff, @Clapham Gull has probably done as good a job as I'm yet to see. This is not to say that there isn't an anti-semitic streak in certain sections of the fundamentalist left.

 

[Live by the sea]

So, not too much then:
1, he handled the anti-semitism issue in his party dreadfully; it wasn't exactly the only thing he handled dreadfully
2, yes, I mentioned that. You can provide a link to the association between Jewishness, banking and capitalism if there is anything of substance. I'm not claiming it doesn't exist, merely that I'm yet to see it
3, such as ... which might be another way of saying and ... much as with HWT
4, yes, that was daft, not sure it's conclusive, but he's set himself up with that
5, is this 1 again?

It’s all very well documented about Corbyn and his unpleasant views it’s not something that has just been made up . Now there is a decent person in charge of labour in 2023 who has integrity and doesn’t count terrorists amongst his mates , hopefully everyone can move on .

 

[Machiavelli]

It’s all very well documented about Corbyn and his unpleasant views it’s not something that has just been made up . Now there is a decent person in charge of labour in 2023 who has integrity and doesn’t count terrorists amongst his mates , hopefully everyone can move on .

If it's so well documented, then provide a link to it. I'm waiting.

 

[BadFish]

It’s all very well documented about Corbyn and his unpleasant views it’s not something that has just been made up . Now there is a decent person in charge of labour in 2023 who has integrity and doesn’t count terrorists amongst his mates , hopefully everyone can move on .

It's certainly not something that has just been made up but it's not well documented either.

From what I can see the evidence ranges from poor leadership, through guilty by association and the somewhat sketchy notion that criticism of Israel constitutes anti semitism.

Add this to the other side of the ledger where he has done much for the Jewish community in Islington and other much document work against racism. The worst conclusion that can be drawn is that the evidence on his anti semitism is inconclusive.

 

[clapham_gull]

So, not too much then:
1, he handled the anti-semitism issue in his party dreadfully; it wasn't exactly the only thing he handled dreadfully
2, yes, I mentioned that. You can provide a link to the association between Jewishness, banking and capitalism if there is anything of substance. I'm not claiming it doesn't exist, merely that I'm yet to see it
3, such as ... which might be another way of saying and ... much as with HWT
4, yes, that was daft, not sure it's conclusive, but he's set himself up with that
5, is this 1 again?

On number 2, blimey. You should read the artists "defence"....

If it's obvious to me when looking at it, it should be obvious to Corbyn.

I'm not your google, it's quite easy to look at the career of Corbyn and come to a view.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I can't comment for you, but I really am not guilty of keeping this thread bubbling. I suspect even you can recall my views on Corbyn, yet I really CBA to engage with him.. I hear the association of Corbyn with anti-semitism regularly. I'm yet to see anything of substance to back it up, although (I suspect) off the cuff, @Clapham Gull has probably done as good a job as I'm yet to see. This is not to say that there isn't an anti-semitic streak in certain sections of the fundamentalist left.

Why bother nit picking about just how bad and just how wrong Corbyn was? He's gone, and I'm glad, and we are all better off because labour may now win the next general election.

They may not though. Partly because of whatabout Corbyn? Some can and will never forget. Not that he was actually a good bloke and not racist at all, but that he was hopeless. Labour=Corbyn=Hopeless.

But if it makes you feel better, I would have been quite content to have had him as my geography teacher.

 

[Wokeworrier]

It’s all very well documented about Corbyn and his unpleasant views it’s not something that has just been made up . Now there is a decent person in charge of labour in 2023 who has integrity and doesn’t count terrorists amongst his mates , hopefully everyone can move on .

Plenty of Labour MP's with integrity refused to serve in Corbyn's shadow cabinet as they could clearly see he was unfit to lead the Labour party let alone the country ... whereas Starmer served under Corbyn and actively campaigned to put him into number 10 at the last GE. Now he's supposedly not even fit to be a Labour MP. That suggests zero integrity but ten out of ten for climbing the greasy, slimy political pole.

 

[Machiavelli]

Why bother nit picking about just how bad and just how wrong Corbyn was? He's gone, and I'm glad, and we are all better off because labour may now win the next general election.

They may not though. Partly because of whatabout Corbyn? Some can and will never forget. Not that he was actually a good bloke and not racist at all, but that he was hopeless. Labour=Corbyn=Hopeless.

But if it makes you feel better, I would have been quite content to have had him as my geography teacher.

I'm really not nit picking about how bad Corbyn is/was. I'm with you on that. What concerns me is the accusation that someone is an anti-semite -- or, relatedly, a racist or fascist. These terms are too important to be thrown around loosely.
It's quite clear that Corbyn failed to tackle anti-semitism in the Labour Party. It's also quite clear that the liking/retweeting of that image constitutes evidence of anti-semitism, but I just don't consider it of sufficient substance to warrant the label anti-semite. I accept that others might disagree on that particular point.
We had a very recent PM in which there was an abundance of evidence to warrant the label racist, yet he attracted comparatively little attention for it, and there's arguably more evidence for Islamophobia in that party than there is anti-semitism in Labour, yet again, that attracts less attention.
Relatedly, solidarity with Luciana Berger:

 

[salazar]

It’s all very well documented about Corbyn and his unpleasant views it’s not something that has just been made up . Now there is a decent person in charge of labour in 2023 who has integrity and doesn’t count terrorists amongst his mates , hopefully everyone can move on .

Terrorists amongst his mates you say.Would be very interested in where you got this. Who we talking about ?
Irish Republicans ? P.L.O. ?Normal anti Corbyn comments without justification.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So, not too much then:
1, he handled the anti-semitism issue in his party dreadfully; it wasn't exactly the only thing he handled dreadfully
2, yes, I mentioned that. You can provide a link to the association between Jewishness, banking and capitalism if there is anything of substance. I'm not claiming it doesn't exist, merely that I'm yet to see it
3, such as ... which might be another way of saying and ... much as with HWT
4, yes, that was daft, not sure it's conclusive, but he's set himself up with that
5, is this 1 again?

‘Liking’ the mural ?
We had one of these threads before and I provided a lot of links to somebody who then didn’t even respond. Similar to @clapham_gull I can’t be bothered to do it again.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Why bother nit picking about just how bad and just how wrong Corbyn was? He's gone, and I'm glad, and we are all better off because labour may now win the next general election.

They may not though. Partly because of whatabout Corbyn? Some can and will never forget. Not that he was actually a good bloke and not racist at all, but that he was hopeless. Labour=Corbyn=Hopeless.

But if it makes you feel better, I would have been quite content to have had him as my geography teacher.

I draw the line there ! I got an ‘A’ in O level Geography in large part because I had a competent Geography teacher.

 

[Weststander]

Terrorists amongst his mates you say.Would be very interested in where you got this. Who we talking about ?
Irish Republicans ? P.L.O. ?Normal anti Corbyn comments without justification.

Corbyn’s own words, he regretted calling members of Hamas and Hezbollah his friends.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politic...e-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

The EU for example lists Hamas, and the Hezbollah military wing, as terrorist groups.

 

[salazar]

Corbyn’s own words, he regretted calling members of Hamas and Hezbollah his friends.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politic...e-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

The EU for example lists Hamas, and the Hezbollah military wing, as terrorist groups.

One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. Corbyn is, and has always been a man of peace.

 

[jcdenton08]

Time for my daily reminder that Corbyn is an unwelcome irrelevance and distraction. The more people talk about Corbyn, the stronger it makes the Tories.

 

[Weststander]

One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. Corbyn is, and has always been a man of peace.

I came up with facts, after you wrongly dismissed someone’s post.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Wagner Group etc are murderers.