[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn

[Live by the sea]

Beyond Swansman’s obvious double standards and casual use of offensive tropes, my concern was also what if one of the people who have read the thread was TB or if it was reported to him out of context. Probably not - but you never know- and therefore even more stupid on a Brighton site.

Coming full circle I suspect they are also very similar to Magic Grandpa’s own views which is why he was the worst Labour leader since Foot and thoroughly unfit for office.

That is a possibility…….. However that shouldn’t be the main driver , people should know what is def way over the line .

 

[Guinness Boy]

That is a possibility…….. However that shouldn’t be the main driver , people should know what is def way over the line .

I didn’t say it was

 

[jakarta]

A similar ride but on a slightly different bus.

I left the labour party when Blair decided to fund all faith schools, potentially recreating the sectarianism of Northern Ireland across the UK. As it happens nothing much happened because laws about the national curriculum and the teaching of creationism as a hypothesis equal to evolution, and that homosexuals will burn in hell, were soon brought in (after some schools started to....you can guess the rest).

I rejoined after Starmer became leader. It gives me great pleasure to sniff through the list of executive candidates so that I can vote for whoever is not declaring support for nobs or nobbery. Hand on heart, sensible options are not always abundant. However the leadership and policy making process appears to have returned to where it should reside - in the hands of the leader and the shadow cabinet.

When I got my extension built the last thing I wanted was to have free and fair elections among all my household on a daily basis over issues such as policy on whether to have the tiles done before the underfloor heating, whether to use left- or right-handed screws, etc. My job, MY job was to elect the company to do the job. I interviewed several candidates, discussed the situation with the missus and cast my vote. And in this election there was only one voter.

If only politics couldn't be like that. You lot would all entrust me with The Vote, after full and frank discussions, right?

Comrade HWT on the Stump: Freedom for Faversham!

EDIT: I'm sure this is what HWT Looks like...

 

[jcdenton08]

A similar ride but on a slightly different bus.

I left the labour party when Blair decided to fund all faith schools, potentially recreating the sectarianism of Northern Ireland across the UK. As it happens nothing much happened because laws about the national curriculum and the teaching of creationism as a hypothesis equal to evolution, and that homosexuals will burn in hell, were soon brought in (after some schools started to....you can guess the rest).

I rejoined after Starmer became leader. It gives me great pleasure to sniff through the list of executive candidates so that I can vote for whoever is not declaring support for nobs or nobbery. Hand on heart, sensible options are not always abundant. However the leadership and policy making process appears to have returned to where it should reside - in the hands of the leader and the shadow cabinet.

When I got my extension built the last thing I wanted was to have free and fair elections among all my household on a daily basis over issues such as policy on whether to have the tiles done before the underfloor heating, whether to use left- or right-handed screws, etc. My job, MY job was to elect the company to do the job. I interviewed several candidates, discussed the situation with the missus and cast my vote. And in this election there was only one voter.

If only politics couldn't be like that. You lot would all entrust me with The Vote, after full and frank discussions, right?

Outstanding post.

Edit: still loathe Diane Abbott though….

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Outstanding post.

Edit: still loathe Diane Abbott though….

I feel slightly annoyed that someone with some sort of problem (TIAs?) that means she can forget her brief, and who thinks class war grandstanding after having been privately educated is a good way to promote the interests of the labour party, has so few friends there are none to tell her that she would be best advised to sit quietly on the back benches, voting sensibly, and not putting off the floating voter. Surely she must have some good friends who have her best interest at heart? Apparently not. There, I said it.

 

[Zeberdi]

If victims of any kind of oppression gets to decide what they are oppressed by, no one could do anything.

I think Jewish people actually do get to decide still that Hitler’s program against the Jews was oppressive as does any victim of oppression- ‘oppression’ is an objective value not some subjective hyper sensitivity of the victim. Blacks, gays, disabled people, Poles, Slavs were all on the hit list and were ‘exterminated’ in the millions along with nearly 6 million Jews.

Not surprised a lot of people here run in to defend Zionist (and non-Zionist) bankers, transnational business owners and imperialists as you've spent several centuries carrying out looting, raping, killing and colonialising all over the world on their command.

speechless

While the noses are indeed silly, stupid, primitive propaganda,

more than that … offensive racial profiling based on physical attributes … discrimination in other words

The only way to end real antisemitism is to remove the power from the oligopol that mainly consists of European-heritage people and Jews. That way the average Jew (and the average Euro-American for that matter) won't be hated by pretty much every poor person in every poor country.

I read all these comments while in hospital and wasn’t well enough to write a response but I found them utterly disgraceful - as the grandchild of Polish and Austrian Jews that both survived Auschwitz-Berkenau the experience of which threaded a darkness through our family for us as kids growing up as we did in the shadow of Hitler’s atrocities and which lingered in the haunted eyes of our grandparents and in our father who had been evacuated from Austria in 1939. My Father is now dead but with an extended Jewish family in the States, for whom the ‘Shoah’ remains a recent and significant time in history, I can honestly say that the comment above in bold and the comments above that too are the closest thing I think I have ever read as being a frightening and deeply deeply offensive rationale for the Holocaust.

As far as Corbyn is concerned, ‘all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing’ or the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller might be more apt:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

[clapham_gull]

Just another one thinking themselves to be educated, liberal and/or left of centre but sucked in by right wing conspiracy theories.

There is a lot of it about.

I can only agree with the comments above. Some utterly disgraceful posts and thankfully gone.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Good and while you at it , perhaps think about your ‘ Jews run the world mindset and they are responsible for all the evil in the world ‘ it’s not a good look unless you are an aspiring Nazi.

Quite how the mods think what you’ve said in this thread isn’t worthy of a ban is beyond me

I can only assume the bar is set very high indeed for anything racist against Jewish people and then put back to its usual very low setting for racism against any other minority .

No wonder David Baddiel wrote his book ..

This. I try to avoid threads like this and only dropped in to see why Swansman was banned. He is a part of the problem but by no means all of it. Even the stated reason for his banning is somewhat mealy mouthed, which it wouldn’t be if his views targeted other ethnic groups.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Just another one thinking themselves to be educated, liberal and/or left of centre but sucked in by right wing conspiracy theories.

There is a lot of it about.

I can only agree with the comments above. Some utterly disgraceful posts and thankfully gone.

Nope. These particular conspiracy theories are left wing and until you accept that you are a part of the problem.

 

[Screaming J]

This. I try to avoid threads like this and only dropped in to see why Swansman was banned. He is a part of the problem but by no means all of it. Even the stated reason for his banning is somewhat mealy mouthed, which it wouldn’t be if his views targeted other ethnic groups.

Do Mods not use the 'Moderating Decisions' part of NSC any more?

 

[Weststander]

Do Mods not use the 'Moderating Decisions' part of NSC any more?

To protect human rights, they keep it all confidential between them and the convicted offender.

(Joking, guessing?)

 

[Deleted member 37369]

I trust Swansman's ban is a lifetime ban and not a suspension.

There's really no coming back from the comments he's made on this thread ... in my opinion, of course.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

I think Jewish people actually do get to decide still that Hitler’s program against the Jews was oppressive as does any victim of oppression- ‘oppression’ is an objective value not some subjective hyper sensitivity of the victim. Blacks, gays, disabled people, Poles, Slavs were all on the hit list and were ‘exterminated’ in the millions along with nearly 6 million Jews.


speechless

more than that … offensive racial profiling based on physical attributes … discrimination in other words

I read all these comments while in hospital and wasn’t well enough to write a response but I found them utterly disgraceful - as the grandchild of Polish and Austrian Jews that both survived Auschwitz-Berkenau the experience of which threaded a darkness through our family for us as kids growing up as we did in the shadow of Hitler’s atrocities and which lingered in the haunted eyes of our grandparents and in our father who had been evacuated from Austria in 1939. My Father is now dead but with an extended Jewish family in the States, for whom the ‘Shoah’ remains a recent and significant time in history, I can honestly say that the comment above in bold and the comments above that too are the closest thing I think I have ever read as being a frightening and deeply deeply offensive rationale for the Holocaust.

As far as Corbyn is concerned, ‘all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing’ or the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller might be more apt:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Really good to hear that you're well enough to respond to this now ...

I have no Jewish relatives, as far as I'm aware ... but I visited the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin in 2015 and Auschwitz-Berkenau in 2016 ... it will live with me forever.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I agree they were shit. But it was the indecisiveness of Corbyn that was his main problem, not his socialism. The irony is that, when Covid arrived, our government - like all other western goverments - spaffed eye-watering amounts of taxpayer money shoring things up. So I'm not sure that Corbyn spaffing what would have been less (that was his plan before Covid) in an attempt to do some social engineering would in the end have created the chaos predicted by the right (and a great deal of the middle to be fair). There would have been chaos but much of that would have been due to active resistance to change and deliberate tanking of the economy by the people who control the economy. 'We can't allow socialism to succeed'. I have heard that one before. Or maybe they would have shown a bit of restraint and compassion (towards the taxpayer) and let it ride. Maybe it would have been....OK.

Abbot is quite bright underneath her gesture politicking. Spare head three is all talk and no action.

It was the prospect of two geography teachers and someone who wanted to be a British Angela Davis, but was more Betty Davis, seeking power, that filled me with negativity. But who knows?

At least they aren't egregiously venal, corrupt, lazy and incompetent like the Johnson, Truss, Sunak dynasty. . .

That’s actually quite easy to explain in economic terms. For a start Corbyn Labour would have had to finance all of the support schemes put in place by the Tories and perhaps more given the calls from the left at the time. This would have been on top of pre existing spending plans not instead of. If you want to know what would have happened under Corbyn then we now have a case study in Liz Truss. Another uncosted net spending binge (albeit with a different aim) for which her/their supporters expected the markets and more particularly creditors to pick up the tab and the risk. Your next bit after the part I have bolded is an example of this attitude. It is not the fault of the nasty markets that people will not lend their money to bonkers economic experiments and the cause and effect is pretty obvious and not the result of any conspiracy. Sorry, I know we are supposed to be talking about anti scemitism but people’s perception of economics and business also interests me.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That’s actually quite easy to explain in economic terms. For a start Corbyn Labour would have had to finance all of the support schemes put in place by the Tories and perhaps more given the calls from the left at the time. This would have been on top of pre existing spending plans not instead of. If you want to know what would have happened under Corbyn then we now have a case study in Liz Truss. Another uncosted net spending binge (albeit with a different aim) for which her/their supporters expected the markets and more particularly creditors to pick up the tab and the risk. Your next bit after the part I have bolded is an example of this attitude. It is not the fault of the nasty markets that people will not lend their money to bonkers economic experiments and the cause and effect is pretty obvious and not the result of any conspiracy. Sorry, I know we are supposed to be talking about anti scemitism but people’s perception of economics and business also interests me.

Economics in government is not run like household economics. There is plenty of money to go around but it needs to be distributed to the correct section of people. Give working class people a pay rise, and they spend it, circulating it throughout businesses, local council, and retail. Give rich people money and it disappears into tax havens. A gross simplification but billions has gone out of this country in the last 13 years. 50% of magistrates courts closed and sold off, 10 fire stations in London alone, closed pulled down and sold off, playing fields sold off.

Where has all that money gone?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just to add, the energy companies are making billions of pounds of profits, and dividends are being paid to rail company shareholders, as are the water companies. CEOS of those companies, despite them failing.
Rishi Sunak has used £500,000 on private flights in the last month.

We are being robbed blind whilst being told, that Labour have uncosted plans.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Economics in government is not run like household economics. There is plenty of money to go around but it needs to be distributed to the correct section of people. Give working class people a pay rise, and they spend it, circulating it throughout businesses, local council, and retail. Give rich people money and it disappears into tax havens. A gross simplification but billions has gone out of this country in the last 13 years. 50% of magistrates courts closed and sold off, 10 fire stations in London alone, closed pulled down and sold off, playing fields sold off.

Where has all that money gone? View attachment 159191

Partly correct. Marginal spending is certainly higher for lower paid people. However your first sentence is not correct, as Liz Truss found out. Governments are the biggest borrowers in the economy which is why you think ‘there is plenty of money to go around.’ They borrow every day in bond auctions. This comes at an interest rate cost though (just like sometimes for households) and if it is unfunded then creditors demand higher rates that feed through to the economy. Irresponsible spending and taxation plans are just that. Irresponsible .

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That’s actually quite easy to explain in economic terms. For a start Corbyn Labour would have had to finance all of the support schemes put in place by the Tories and perhaps more given the calls from the left at the time. This would have been on top of pre existing spending plans not instead of. If you want to know what would have happened under Corbyn then we now have a case study in Liz Truss. Another uncosted net spending binge (albeit with a different aim) for which her/their supporters expected the markets and more particularly creditors to pick up the tab and the risk. Your next bit after the part I have bolded is an example of this attitude. It is not the fault of the nasty markets that people will not lend their money to bonkers economic experiments and the cause and effect is pretty obvious and not the result of any conspiracy. Sorry, I know we are supposed to be talking about anti scemitism but people’s perception of economics and business also interests me.

Yes, well, I was just making the point that his indecisiveness was more a problem than his socialism. Nobody knows how he would have responded to Covid, though, so if I can say his spending strategy would not have been very different from what Johnson chose, then you are also speculating that Corbyn would have in fact spent the Covid spaff on top of his original commitments (free wifi and whatnot - I didn't take much notice because I had already given up on him owing to his antisemitism and historic disloyalty to the previous labour leadership).

As it happens and as @Thunder Bolt implies, public spending could be increased; it is largely a matter of whether you think it right or wrong to make the lives of the working class easier via public spending, or not. The tories essentially see public spending as intrinsically wrong.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Partly correct. Marginal spending is certainly higher for lower paid people. However your first sentence is not correct, as Liz Truss found out. Governments are the biggest borrowers in the economy which is why you think ‘there is plenty of money to go around.’ They borrow every day in bond auctions. This comes at an interest rate cost though (just like sometimes for households) and if it is unfunded then creditors demand higher rates that feed through to the economy. Irresponsible spending and taxation plans are just that. Irresponsible .

There is a poster on here, Garfield or something, who has repeatedly stated that it does not matter how much governments spend or borrow. I can't work out his reasoning and he simply directs my questions to magazine articles (I read one and it is simply unrefereed hyperbole).

Anyway I think we have done enough derailing for now

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

There is a poster on here, Garfield or something, who has repeatedly stated that it does not matter how much governments spend or borrow. I can't work out his reasoning and he simply directs my questions to magazine articles (I read one and it is simply unrefereed hyperbole).

Anyway I think we have done enough derailing for now

Presumably you'll have to wait for him to explain again, since he doesn't like Mondays.