KP stirring things up...

[spring hall convert]

It's a crying shame the way KP was mismanaged, we could have had another 4 or 5 good years out of him. But it really is time to move on now, for everyone.

 

[Berty23]

It's a crying shame the way KP was mismanaged, we could have had another 4 or 5 good years out of him. But it really is time to move on now, for everyone.

He was broken and hardly fit. His body would have given up by now.

 

[El Sid]

If he genuinely thinks he's good enough for a test place he should have signalled his intent by piling up runs for Surrey instead of lining his pockets in St Lucia and then sprawling on a beach. Utter cock!

 

[Gwylan]

It's a crying shame the way KP was mismanaged, we could have had another 4 or 5 good years out of him. But it really is time to move on now, for everyone.

A few years ago he said he wanted to retire from tests after the South Africa tour so he'd be near the end anyway. He's 35 with a dodgy knee so he really wouldn't be a long term view.

If he genuinely thinks he's good enough for a test place he should have signalled his intent by piling up runs for Surrey instead of lining his pockets in St Lucia and then sprawling on a beach. Utter cock!

This. He played a few games and scored runs on flat tracks against a bunch of students and the worst attack in the country, he then sloped off to play some bish-bash cricket and lounge around the beach. If he'd committed to a season with a Div One team and scored runs against some proper attacks, there may be some substance to the calls for him to return

 

[Pavilionaire]

KP clearly is a c**k but should we worry about those players or the opposition ?

Sometimes it is a useful exercise to ask "what do the opposition not want us to do?".

I understand that argument but it is intrinsically short-term. A recall of KP here would basically undermine Cook, Strauss and all of the team relationships that have been built over the last few months. It really isn't worth risking everything - and it is everything - on one player. And, knowing what KP is like, if he was brought back and we won the Ashes he'd probably retire and take all the credit, and the England team would be back to square one.

It's simply no longer an option, KP has blown it with his book. He's the one looking ridiculous in all of this, any future media career he might have had is fast fading away.

 

[Mellotron]

I understand that argument but it is intrinsically short-term. A recall of KP here would basically undermine Cook, Strauss and all of the team relationships that have been built over the last few months. It really isn't worth risking everything - and it is everything - on one player. And, knowing what KP is like, if he was brought back and we won the Ashes he'd probably retire and take all the credit, and the England team would be back to square one.

It's simply no longer an option, KP has blown it with his book. He's the one looking ridiculous in all of this, any future media career he might have had is fast fading away.

Agreed. One (good) reason to bring him back, but HUNDREDS of perfectly valid reasons not to. If he was 10 years younger it would be a different story. But he isn't, so it isn't.

 

[Eeyore]

Is there really a story there?

Preparing pitches to suit has been part of cricket home field advantage for as long as I can remember and, I'm sure, long before that.

A quick piece on the subject I found in 10 seconds: http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/622470.html

You are right, but preparing pitches that negate our entire bowling attack is unwise, especially when your own team don't bowl to the conditions.

Most of the English batsman fell to wicket to wicket deliveries. The Aussies got it. Yet only 6% of our deliveries fell in that category.

Edgbaston needs a slow seaming surface. There needs to be grass on it. Although it's hard to beat an opposition that you clearly don't fancy playing in the first place.

Bugger Mitchell Johnson. Just play the game.

 

[El Presidente]

any future media career he might have had is fast fading away.

Any future media career in this country is unlikely given the ECB asked Sky not to allow him to speak.

Not liking the bloke is one thing, acting in a Kremlin type way is another.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-3132869/Kevin-Pietersen-silenced-ECB-block-Sky-hire-pundit-Ashes-fears-criticism.html

 

[El Presidente]

You are right, but preparing pitches that negate our entire bowling attack is unwise, especially when your own team don't bowl to the conditions.

Most of the English batsman fell to wicket to wicket deliveries. The Aussies got it. Yet only 6% of our deliveries fell in that category.

Edgbaston needs a slow seaming surface. There needs to be grass on it. Although it's hard to beat an opposition that you clearly don't fancy playing in the first place.

Bugger Mitchell Johnson. Just play the game.

The point I was making is that the Strauss email was favouring the away team.

You'd almost think he wasn't English...............

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I understand that argument but it is intrinsically short-term.

I wonder if short term is the best approach for international sport. Just pick the in-form players. The next test series will look after itself.

I am not really a cricket man - so there are likely to be plenty of holes in that approach - but the team relationships that have been built up may not be worth much anyway. Team spirit comes from winning as much as anything.

 

[Eeyore]

The point I was making is that the Strauss email was favouring the away team.

You'd almost think he wasn't English...............

Well, he has a neat and clipped home counties drool and he's very establishment.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I wonder if short term is the best approach for international sport. Just pick the in-form players. The next test series will look after itself.

I am not really a cricket man - so there are likely to be plenty of holes in that approach - but the team relationships that have been built up may not be worth much anyway. Team spirit comes from winning as much as anything.

I disagree with this. The German football team that are currently world champions were nurtured via the Under-21s, the World Cup of 2010 and they exploded in World Cup 2014. They also have a culture of renewing after major tournaments, witness Philip Lahm's international retirement at age 30 immediately after winning the World Cup. This is exactly the planning required to build a side capable of challenging the best.

Contrast this with the England cricket selector's ill-advised reinstatement of Jonathan Trott, the lack of test experience for Adam Lyth and Adil Rashid, the "horses for courses" disaster of picking Tremlett, Finn and Rankin in the last Ashes series, the failure to plan for Andrew Strauss and Graeme Swann's successors (Sam Robson, Simon Kerrigan never to be heard of again?)

With international sport you can't go out and buy a big star to fill a gap, you have to plan. I know even the best sides don't always get it right but not by accident Australia already had Nevill, Mitchell Marsh, Hazlewood in the wings and they have Shaun Marsh too if Chris Rogers conks out. We know Steve Smith will be their next captain. Does England cricket really have a plan? I think it's time for Bayliss and Strauss to earn their money.

 

[El Presidente]

Well, he has a neat and clipped home counties drool and he's very establishment.

Fair points, one could almost forget he was born in Johannesburg.

 

[jakarta]

Fair points, one could almost forget he was born in Johannesburg.

The Duke of Wellington was born in Dublin, when someone pointed out he was technically Irish he replied that being born in a stable did not make one a horse....

 

[El Presidente]

The Duke of Wellington was born in Dublin, when someone pointed out he was technically Irish he replied that being born in a stable did not make one a horse....

If it was a stable in Ireland it would make him Irish though

 

[Eeyore]

Fair points, one could almost forget he was born in Johannesburg.

He did come to England aged six, mind. And went neatly into the public school set up.

 

[maltaseagull]

Unless he can open in Tests , which he can't, not sure he'd get in anyway . Middle order isn't the problem

Are you sure?

He was more a no4/5 and in the current team that would mean batting in the first 20 overs for sure!

 

[Gwylan]

I disagree with this. The German football team that are currently world champions were nurtured via the Under-21s, the World Cup of 2010 and they exploded in World Cup 2014. ...

Does England cricket really have a plan? I think it's time for Bayliss and Strauss to earn their money.

Very much this. Just had a look at the U19 squads from seven years ago. The Australian team had Steve Smith, Pattinson, Hazlewood, Faulkner and (poignantly) Hughes. The England team had three test players: James Taylor, Finn and Woakes - none of them regulars.

You could also say the same about the football team too BTW. Very few England players seem to come through the ranks. Why can't we plan these things?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I disagree with this. The German football team that are currently world champions were nurtured via the Under-21s, the World Cup of 2010 and they exploded in World Cup 2014. They also have a culture of renewing after major tournaments, witness Philip Lahm's international retirement at age 30 immediately after winning the World Cup. This is exactly the planning required to build a side capable of challenging the best.

Contrast this with the England cricket selector's ill-advised reinstatement of Jonathan Trott, the lack of test experience for Adam Lyth and Adil Rashid, the "horses for courses" disaster of picking Tremlett, Finn and Rankin in the last Ashes series, the failure to plan for Andrew Strauss and Graeme Swann's successors (Sam Robson, Simon Kerrigan never to be heard of again?)

With international sport you can't go out and buy a big star to fill a gap, you have to plan. I know even the best sides don't always get it right but not by accident Australia already had Nevill, Mitchell Marsh, Hazlewood in the wings and they have Shaun Marsh too if Chris Rogers conks out. We know Steve Smith will be their next captain. Does England cricket really have a plan? I think it's time for Bayliss and Strauss to earn their money.

I agree, but in some ways England are guilty of over planning and over thinking things. Rogers and Warner as openers are just an out of the box pairing that I don't think England would be capable of considering. One debuting at 35 (other than a single test 5 years previous), and another a young volatile, erratic seemingly one day specialist. In some ways they just completely lucked out that these two formed such a strong partnership.

What strikes me most about England is the sense as you've said no real plan, and that is no more exemplified than our current treadmill of openers. To a large degree the previous form of Cook has severely hampered other openers to settle into the team. Carberry in particular can feel very hard done by to only have that Ashes series away in Australia to show for an impressive career, and he didn't perform that badly. Compton too showed signs he had ability there, but again, both must have found it difficult batting with the captain struggling so badly himself.

Not giving Lyth the West Indies tour was as you've said a shocking decision to have gambled on Trott instead. That really does show a lack of lateral forward thinking. Take a guy destroyed by a mental condition at 3, then get him back in as a makeshift opener. It almost beggars belief they tried this at all.

Hales strikes me as a comparison with the sort of risk Australia took with Warner when he debuted at 25 (Hales now 26). It is perhaps the sort of left field thinking Bayliss will bring to the setup.

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

I disagree with this. The German football team that are currently world champions were nurtured via the Under-21s, the World Cup of 2010 and they exploded in World Cup 2014. They also have a culture of renewing after major tournaments, witness Philip Lahm's international retirement at age 30 immediately after winning the World Cup. This is exactly the planning required to build a side capable of challenging the best.

Contrast this with the England cricket selector's ill-advised reinstatement of Jonathan Trott, the lack of test experience for Adam Lyth and Adil Rashid, the "horses for courses" disaster of picking Tremlett, Finn and Rankin in the last Ashes series, the failure to plan for Andrew Strauss and Graeme Swann's successors (Sam Robson, Simon Kerrigan never to be heard of again?)

With international sport you can't go out and buy a big star to fill a gap, you have to plan. I know even the best sides don't always get it right but not by accident Australia already had Nevill, Mitchell Marsh, Hazlewood in the wings and they have Shaun Marsh too if Chris Rogers conks out. We know Steve Smith will be their next captain. Does England cricket really have a plan? I think it's time for Bayliss and Strauss to earn their money.

This is very true. I think the appointment of Strauss was designed to move us that way and hopefully will be a success. He got it wrong regarding the pitch e'mail though !! The toss was oh so important at Lords. I think we do know that Root will be our next captain.