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[News] Just Stop Oil



beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,994
Why is this government so intent on further oil exploration when renewables can have investment?
taxes and jobs. always popular with government ministers. thier donors get to run their business, keeps them happy too. meanwhile others invest in renewables, one investment does not exclude the other.
 




BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,181
taxes and jobs. always popular with government ministers. thier donors get to run their business, keeps them happy too. meanwhile others invest in renewables, one investment does not exclude the other.
That populism doesn't take into account the damage done to the environment. What we need is some groups
highlighting this short-sightedness and reminding people of the broader picture.

Still it is dreadful that some people may be inconvienced.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,181
Surely the whole inconvienced debate boils down to if you agree or accept the reason. There has been a lot of roadworks in my street, a massive inconvienced. I live near a school and at pick up times I am inconvienced.

Does it bother me? Not really.

Last year I got stuck in Melbourne for a couple of hours because of an extinction rebellion protest. Massive inconvience.

Didn't really bother us, we went a joined in.

Missed out on seeing Brighton for the first time in the Premier League last year. Strikes on the trains the first reason. Massively disappointing and heartbroken but I accepted it in solidarity with the people striking.

Then the strikes were called off because and old lady died but the game wasn't reinstated. This irritated me a lot more.

The point is that inconvience happens all the time for one reason or another. It's not some human right that we are shielded from inconvience, happens all the time. Why pretend that this is what you have an issue with?

The old lady's funeral and subsequent Sparkly hat administering have caused people way more inconvience to way more people. But it's all good cos we liked her.
 


Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
590
Surely the whole inconvienced debate boils down to if you agree or accept the reason. There has been a lot of roadworks in my street, a massive inconvienced. I live near a school and at pick up times I am inconvienced.

Does it bother me? Not really.

Last year I got stuck in Melbourne for a couple of hours because of an extinction rebellion protest. Massive inconvience.

Didn't really bother us, we went a joined in.

Missed out on seeing Brighton for the first time in the Premier League last year. Strikes on the trains the first reason. Massively disappointing and heartbroken but I accepted it in solidarity with the people striking.

Then the strikes were called off because and old lady died but the game wasn't reinstated. This irritated me a lot more.

The point is that inconvience happens all the time for one reason or another. It's not some human right that we are shielded from inconvience, happens all the time. Why pretend that this is what you have an issue with?

The old lady's funeral and subsequent Sparkly hat administering have caused people way more inconvience to way more people. But it's all good cos we liked her.
I suppose the question for me is more about deliberately causing inconvenience rather than being affected by inconvenience.

My main issue though is the absolute futility of the disruption, it’s blatantly obvious that it will have absolute zero impact on government decision making. The argument that “at least we are trying to have an effect while you are doing nothing” is beyond belief.

How many gay people in Qatar have improved lives now because people wore rainbow armbands at the World Cup ?

There is a political vessel in this country for everyone who believes so very strongly in the causes of Just Stop Oil and Extinction Rebellion. The way to affect political change is through politics and The Green Party is long established. Unfortunately it’s not that popular and has never had much success at a National level of politics. If everyone who believes so strongly in these causes voted Green we would be able to see the difference wouldn’t we? Our democracy, a society with a democratically elected government would have to take notice. 👊
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,181
I suppose the question for me is more about deliberately causing inconvenience rather than being affected by inconvenience.

My main issue though is the absolute futility of the disruption, it’s blatantly obvious that it will have absolute zero impact on government decision making. The argument that “at least we are trying to have an effect while you are doing nothing” is beyond belief.

How many gay people in Qatar have improved lives now because people wore rainbow armbands at the World Cup ?

There is a political vessel in this country for everyone who believes so very strongly in the causes of Just Stop Oil and Extinction Rebellion. The way to affect political change is through politics and The Green Party is long established. Unfortunately it’s not that popular and has never had much success at a National level of politics. If everyone who believes so strongly in these causes voted Green we would be able to see the difference wouldn’t we? Our democracy, a society with a democratically elected government would have to take notice. 👊

Lots of people seem to think it is futile. Your faith in the democratic process is in my opinion nieve, it also ignores the important part that protest plays and has always played in the democratic process.

Perhaps this thread is split between those who see protest as futile and those who don't. My point earlier though is that this shouldn't matter in a society. Just because one person disagrees with something or thinks it is futile it doesn't trump other opinions. Many things inconvience me that I disagree with, most of us just put up with it for the benefit of others.
 
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The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
26,113
West is BEST
All being equal, I think JSO are going to have to come up with better methods of protest.

What they do is, in my opinion too divisive.

I am in two minds about their methods but purely objectively, I think they are doing their message more harm than good.

I agree in principle with their intent but their execution needs some adjusting. If only for their own ends.
 




Super Steve Earle

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
8,905
North of Brighton
Lots of people seem to think it is futile. Your faith in the democratic process is in my opinion nieve, it also ignores the important part that protest plays and has always played in the democratic process.

Perhaps this thread is split between those who see protest as futile and those who don't. My point earlier though is that this shouldn't matter in a society. Just because one person disagrees with something or thinks it is futile it doesn't trump other opinions. Many things inconvience me that I disagree with, most of us just put up with it for the benefit of others.
Exactly. Just because one person disagrees with something or thinks it's futile, it doesn't trump other opinions. That's why protests, usually by an intolerant minority, piss off the rest of society. Selfish people who just want their own way at the expense of things others hold dear. As you say, if things inconvenience you or you don't agree just put up with it for the benefit of others. But no, it won't happen and humanity will destroy itself, the planet and everything on it regardless of protests. Too many humans, too little planet.
 




Goldstone Guy

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2006
337
Hove
you mean apart from halving CO2 emissions, near eradicating coal, generating 24GW from wind? dont know why the steps we've taken keep getting understated.
I think the UK has gone from emissions of about 800 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent (ie all greenhouses gases together) in the 80s sometime to about 400 million tonnes now (rough figures only, I'm not even completely sure of the units but I'm rushing out and not time to check - happy to be corrected if wrong) so yes I agree something has been done. We've made progress if you measure that in terms of a reduction of CO2 emissions annually. However in terms of the total amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere we (the UK) haven't made any progress at all - this year it'll be worse by whatever the amount is (I think 400 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent !!!). Meanwhile we're smashing through the 1.5 degrees temperature rise target and now looking at 2, 3, 4 degrees and triggering biological and geological tipping points, so that even if we're were at "net zero" climate change will still accelerate if these tipping points are reached.

It's the personal finance equivalent of saying I'm £1m in debt, but it's ok because only borrowed another £50,000 this year and I was borrowing £100,000 a few years ago. Or the football equivalent - in a parallel universe Brighton are having a particularly bad season. We've lost our games by an average of 23-0, and the manager has come on TV after a game and said we're doing well because we only lost that game 11-0. Our goal difference is now - 189 and we haven't got any points.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
I would think it's because it is essential to have fossil fuel backup to renewable power sources. It is untenable to have a power grid that cannot provide a consistent supply. No matter how many wind farms we have, if wind is a significant part of the power supply, we need an alternative source for when the wind isn't blowing.
The wind always blows. Onshore and offshore wind with the change in tide and we should also use tidal,power.
 


jonny.rainbow

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2005
6,843
Also part of an international Network that is not just all about the UK
Yes, there are Just Stop Oil movements in other countries made up of people from those countries protesting in their own countries against their own governments’ energy policies.

The protesters in the UK are from the UK and are protesting against UK government policy.
 




drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,576
Burgess Hill
Surely JSO would gain more traction by engaging with the population rather than, in general, inconveniencing them. Win the hearts and minds of the electorate and make it a vote winning strategy and the politicians would then see the need. That said, I believe a change of government will see a shift in attitude. The tories shut down the onshore windfarms purely for aesthetics and that has set us back effectively 13 years.
 


cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
4,875
I think the UK has gone from emissions of about 800 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent (ie all greenhouses gases together) in the 80s sometime to about 400 million tonnes now (rough figures only, I'm not even completely sure of the units but I'm rushing out and not time to check - happy to be corrected if wrong) so yes I agree something has been done. We've made progress if you measure that in terms of a reduction of CO2 emissions annually. However in terms of the total amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere we (the UK) haven't made any progress at all - this year it'll be worse by whatever the amount is (I think 400 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent !!!). Meanwhile we're smashing through the 1.5 degrees temperature rise target and now looking at 2, 3, 4 degrees and triggering biological and geological tipping points, so that even if we're were at "net zero" climate change will still accelerate if these tipping points are reached.

It's the personal finance equivalent of saying I'm £1m in debt, but it's ok because only borrowed another £50,000 this year and I was borrowing £100,000 a few years ago. Or the football equivalent - in a parallel universe Brighton are having a particularly bad season. We've lost our games by an average of 23-0, and the manager has come on TV after a game and said we're doing well because we only lost that game 11-0. Our goal difference is now - 189 and we haven't got any points.
Yeah, but even with that goal difference, as below, we’ve now qualified for a Europa League place………

https://www.current-news.co.uk/uk-ranked-sixth-in-the-world-for-solar-and-wind-generation/

Do the protests continue until we win the Champions League?

There’s the delusion of these zealots right there.
 


tigertim68

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2012
2,619
It just annoys me how a dozen or so people, can hold a city to ransom , or ruin a sporting event for thousands of people,
in this country we have a voting system, that is the way to change policies You don’t like ,
if not demonstrate in a legal, non violent manner, that does not disrupt other people’s lives.
 




BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,181
It just annoys me how a dozen or so people, can hold a city to ransom , or ruin a sporting event for thousands of people,
in this country we have a voting system, that is the way to change policies You don’t like ,
if not demonstrate in a legal, non violent manner, that does not disrupt other people’s lives.
The thing is though disrupting other people isn't illegal. With your government it is getting there but it looks like they will be voted out in favour of a government more supportive of the right to protest.

Btw 'holding a city to ransom' and ruining a sporting event is somewhat hysterical.

The old lady dying was far more distruptive to a city and ruined sporting events for 10s of thousands of people over that weekend. Why was that okay?
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,774
hassocks
The thing is though disrupting other people isn't illegal. With your government it is getting there but it looks like they will be voted out in favour of a government more supportive of the right to protest.

Btw 'holding a city to ransom' and ruining a sporting event is somewhat hysterical.

The old lady dying was far more distruptive to a city and ruined sporting events for 10s of thousands of people over that weekend. Why was that okay?

I'm not sure Labour will overturn the new laws completely, it seems like something you would vote against once out of power and for when in, guess we will see shortly!
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
20,492
Deepest, darkest Sussex






BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,181
I'm not sure Labour will overturn the new laws completely, it seems like something you would vote against once out of power and for when in, guess we will see shortly!
Yep I agree.

Dodgy business.
 




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