[Albion] Just how good is Hürzeler?

[Iggle Piggle]

The one of the worst managers in the league bit though is mental

He's spot on.

I'd much rather have the Southampton manager. He's doing a bang up job.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I like how Hurzeler is respectful of other teams and admits when we were second best. His thoughts on the challenge each team might cause tend to be insightful rather than just a bland response about how every team is tough.

Makes his pre match press conferences worth listening to for the moment.

'Trust the process' is starting to get a bit grating though.

Don't knock it.

And we all have to suffer from time to time

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I think most people bar the really tinted spec crew would agree with that. The one of the worst managers in the league bit though is mental

I just assume that's wilful exaggeration.
Why write something people will agree with when you can write something absurdly controversial?

I sort of buy the underlying point though, we have a good squad and I'd guess that more than half of the managers in the premier league could get performances as good as we've seen out of it, even if they might be in a different style. Whether I'd prefer to have any of those managers is an entirely different question.

I am extremely cynical about how much difference most managers actually make to their team's results though.

 

[nickbrighton]

I've not lost the plot, I'm just capable of having multiple separate thoughts:

1. We're doing fantastically well, and so is our manager, with great results so far.
2. We're creating too few chances and conceding too many to sustain our current results.
3. Points and goals are important.
4. Information that leads to points and goals is equally if not more important.

We're 5th because we're the top 1 best club, not because any of our managers or players are top 5 (LB aside). Its a coherently and wisely built team with a talented manager and talented players. As a unit we're 5th. Individually I believe that most of our players as well as our manager learn things every day.

Nothing is objective, nothing is for certain, but realistically speaking Hurzeler knows less about football and football coaching than most of his colleagues that have been around in the profession for 10-20 years longer. He has more to learn than most others. Hopefully he sees it that way and doesn't buy into the "he's all that!" vibe that comes when we win and goes when we lose.

you said the manager was the worst-now he is doing fantastically well
only 4 teams have scored more goals than us, only 1 team has scored more than 3 more than us-yet we arent creating enough
agree points and goals are important-who would have thought!
all the info in the world is useless if you dont score-

Anyway- this is going round in circles-so Im out

 

[Weststander]

I just assume that's wilful exaggeration.
Why write something people will agree with when you can write something absurdly controversial?

I sort of buy the underlying point though, we have a good squad and I'd guess that more than half of the managers in the premier league could get performances as good as we've seen out of it, even if they might be in a different style. Whether I'd prefer to have any of those managers is an entirely different question.

I am extremely cynical about how much difference most managers actually make to their team's results though.

There was quote from Ferguson about 20 years ago (I can never find it) along the lines of a manager’s only as good as the quality of the squad.

And he didn’t mean it in a modest sense.

 

[Han Solo]

you said the manager was the worst-now he is doing fantastically well
only 4 teams have scored more goals than us, only 1 team has scored more than 3 more than us-yet we arent creating enough
agree points and goals are important-who would have thought!
all the info in the world is useless if you dont score-

Anyway- this is going round in circles-so Im out

Yes, one of the worst and he's doing fantastically well. Such is the quality of the PL.

I'm following you out...

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

I like how Hurzeler is respectful of other teams and admits when we were second best. His thoughts on the challenge each team might cause tend to be insightful rather than just a bland response about how every team is tough.

Makes his pre match press conferences worth listening to for the moment.

'Trust the process' is starting to get a bit grating though.

Absolutely. His interviews have been a breath of fresh air. Remember GP and his undying love of saying f all that was meaningful? It was like playing platitude bingo listening to him!

 

[Zeberdi]

…realistically speaking Hurzeler knows less about football and football coaching than most of his colleagues that have been around in the profession for 10-20 years longer. He has more to learn than most others. Hopefully he sees it that way and doesn't buy into the "he's all that!" vibe that comes when we win and goes when we lose.

Yes, one of the worst and he's doing fantastically well. Such is the quality of the PL.

I'm following you out...

Probably just as well because much of what you have written above belongs on this thread instead

[Albion] - Talkshite

Benty reckons our squad ain't deep enough ...

www.northstandchat.com

You should know more than anyone that football as a sport is constantly changing - a top manager 10 years ago would not still be among the top managers unless they’d evolved their ‘DNA’ with the modern game.

Moreover - What makes some managers ‘great’ and not just ‘good’ is their talent and vision and being on the cutting edge of developing systems and approaches in modern football. Age doesn’t come into it.

They are a rare breed that shine above the rest and who others emulate and are inspired by.

If you had actually looked a little more closely into who was making waves in Europe when you were doing your internet. scouting to find RDZ’s replacement, you would have seen what I saw and that Hürzeler despite his age was already one of those managers making waves in Europe as was RDZ when he was in Italy - both comparatively young and inexperienced managers who were being noticed in a very crowded field for the unique and individual style of football they were playing and that they were doing so on comparatively low budgets. More importantly for us, they were being noticed by TB.

It’s too early to say if Hürzeler will be a ‘great’ manager but he is breaking through the traditional constraints of systemic football (even when the system is great) , taking the advantages of positional versatility to a new level and bucking the prevailing view that any one team is predominantly defensive, attacking or counter-attacking. Who knows if he will be one of the ‘great‘ managers but he is a very good one and has already achieved much already with one ( thanks to him now top flight) European Club making a name for himself.

The old Busby adage applies to very young managers too - ‘if you‘re good enough, you’re old enough’ .

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

A bit of everything.

Particularly abnormalities likely to be "normalised" over the course of a season. Things like Barts save ratio compared to the kind of chances we concede and the distance we let them shoot. If he can keep a 75% save percentage while we continue to be the most generous team in letting the opponents create through ball chances.. its nothing short of a miracle.

Many small things and they add up. At the end of the season there will still be statistical abnormalities of course, but most of them will have evened out and turned into "ok, makes sense". In our case there are lots and lots of those small things saying "our results are better than our performances", and thats rarely keeping up for 38 games.

Verbruggen has been very good and his post shot xG shows that. I wouldn’t be surprised if he maintains his high standards as he is clearly excellent in 1v1s.

I was hoping you would share some more insightful data as it would actually be interesting and help support your other arguments on this thread. You can’t really just say it’s lot of small statistical things which all add up without giving any kind of details.

 

[Black Rod]

We would be level on points with Liverpool had we reappointed Graham Potter in the summer

 

[Han Solo]

Absolutely. His interviews have been a breath of fresh air. Remember GP and his undying love of saying f all that was meaningful? It was like playing platitude bingo listening to him!

Personally think Hurzeler is maybe the most boring young man I have ever listened to... maybe one of the smartest as well.

AND I LOVE IT!

In my world, the optimal manager is a dull grey bureacrat who'd be a nerdy geography teacher if they didn't find football. Jose Mourinho, RDZ and whatnot to the quite broad sentiment of people who want to throw their underwear on men that exudes power, but for those of us more into arts - more specifically the art of kicking a ball around - the grey eminence that allows the magic to happen on the pitch (rather than in some sideline freakshow) is preferable.

And while Fabian is still a bit rowdy and shouty, he will soon be conditioned and self-conditioned into turning into the most grey and most eminent manager you could think of.

He has gigantic "Lars Lagerbäck potential". Bit like Graham did before he at the age of 48 decided to go abandon Swedish ideals of complete greyness to full Hollywood.

(photo for you @Tom Hark Preston Park. This is what a sexy manager looks like )

 

[Greg Bobkin]

So he's one of the worst, but will be the best in a year or two?

You need rehab.

Or just ignoring

 

[portslade seagull]

Probably on Cheatseas radar for when they lose two games in a row

 

[Zeberdi]

Personally think Hurzeler is maybe the most boring young man I have ever listened to... maybe one of the smartest as well.

AND I LOVE IT!

In my world, the optimal manager is a dull grey bureacrat who'd be a nerdy geography teacher if they didn't find football. Jose Mourinho, RDZ and whatnot to the quite broad sentiment of people who want to throw their underwear on men that exudes power, but for those of us more into arts - more specifically the art of kicking a ball around - the grey eminence that allows the magic to happen on the pitch (rather than in some sideline freakshow) is preferable.

I don’t know whether you are deliberately winding people up on on NSC with your constant reversion back to Graham Potter being the bestest manager ever and now this thinly veiled compliment to him - but really, his boring as fcuk pressers and grey nerdiness was SEXY and creative for you?

Your criteria for ‘optimal managers’ while valid is purely subjective rather than a critique of Hürzeler on the basis of objective analysis.

I dunno HS, perhaps it is a reflection of your quirky (yet appealing!) personality and having an ‘outside the norm’ of a mainstream worldview that creates in you a longing for the normalcy of grey headed, geography teachers . For those of us really into the ‘arts’ of football, we can see how innovative and original thinking and a refusal to accept glass ceilings can translate into tactical astuteness, flexibility and success on the pitch.

 

[Han Solo]

I don’t know whether you are deliberately winding people up on on NSC with your constant reversion back to Graham Potter being the bestest manager ever and now this thinly veiled compliment to him - but really, his boring as fcuk pressers and grey nerdiness was SEXY and creative for you?

Your criteria for ‘optimal managers’ while valid is purely subjective rather than a critique of Hürzeler on the basis of objective analysis.

I dunno HS, perhaps it is a reflection of your quirky (yet appealing!) personality and having an ‘outside the norm’ of a mainstream worldview that creates in you a longing for the normalcy of grey headed, geography teachers . For those of us really into the ‘arts’ of football, we can see how innovative and original thinking and a refusal to accept glass ceilings can translate into tactical astuteness, flexibility and success on the pitch.

Standing in the shadows after creating the optimal conditions for the real artists to bring the show. Very sexy.
Jumping around the sideline begging for attention or talking about yourself in third person... Very unsexy.

Subjective? No way. This is the way God shaped the world... Sexy, sexy grey God.

 

[DJ Chi]

We're currently overperforming mainly in conceding four fewer goals than expected (our goals scored output is very close to expected). However, only half of this is down to luck (worse than average finishing from the opposition), the other half is down to above average goalkeeping by Verbruggen who is conceding two goals fewer than you would expect from the shots he has faced. So roughly half of our overperformance on xP (and xG) is down to having an excellent keeper (this also doesn't consider his above average distribution).

 

[Napper]

We're currently overperforming mainly in conceding four fewer goals than expected (our goals scored output is very close to expected). However, only half of this is down to luck (worse than average finishing from the opposition), the other half is down to above average goalkeeping by Verbruggen who is conceding two goals fewer than you would expect from the shots he has faced. So roughly half of our overperformance on xP (and xG) is down to having an excellent keeper (this also doesn't consider his above average distribution).

exactly this. Makes all the difference.

Dare I say it but if we has Sanchez or Steele in goal this season then we'd be mid table / lower half.

Amazed more people don't see it

 

[Hiheidi]

Interesting comparison to the same fixtures last season...

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Interesting comparison to the same fixtures last season...

Blimey, that's quite a stat!!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Tricky one: is it down to the new manager or is it down to the near £200 million investment in players over the Summer? I'm undecided personally: leaning heavily somewhere from 80/20 to 85/15 in favour of the player investment