[Albion] Just how good is Hürzeler?

[nickbrighton]

@Han Solo , sometimes you do post some interesting and thought provoking ideas and observations, well worth a read even if they may be contrary to how some people view things. It is always worth reading a differing opinion. Sometimes your views provide a good counter to some of us more optimistic types who admittedly can view things with blue and white tinted specs.

However your last few posts on here are complete twaddle, worst manager in the league has us ONE POINT off of second, has had the best points haul after 12 games we have ever had in the top flight, . The incompetent previous manager got us to the Europa League, and WON the group-despite what happened next. You say the metrics are a better indication than league position-but dont you realise the ONLY metrics that actually matter at the end of the day are Goals (for and against) and points - and we are doing pretty well on that. We have played some of our hardest games of the season and have just started an easier run of games that could( not will but its not unlikely) see us nicely settled in the top 5 by Christmas

All teams make blunders, all teams are Naïve at times, all new coaches take time to settle the team in to their way of playing- ours has lost just twice in 12 prem games to Liverpool and Chelsea, has beaten Man Utd, Spurs, Newcastle, and arguably has had one bad game where we really should have won but threw away a 2 goal lead after 80 mins.

Yes we have ridden our luck, but again all teams do that on occasion

Huerzeler is still learning, will make errors, and will lose games we shouldnt-but if the worst manager in the league carries on being as bad for the remaining games we would finish on 70 points . Ill take that and keep our bloody awfully bad manager thanks

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No, I said what I said above = nothing about the European Tour.

So the manager wasn't incompetent then? Is that what you're saying? We won a very tough group stage in the autumn then RDZ - not unreasonably imho - wanted the board to bolster our injury-crippled squad in January so we could maybe, just maybe, take the European Tour to the next level. Board said no. They sure as hell took his message on board tho, as we saw in the Summer spending splurge. RDZ

 

[Han Solo]

The most important metric shows us 5th in the table. Behind the clubs in 3rd and 4th on goal difference and with a chance to go second on Friday night, albeit temporarily, with over a 1/3rd of the season gone.

Imagine what we could do if we didn’t have one of the worst managers in the league.

30 days ago, after the Wolves game, I would have been considered overly positive and optimistic for saying "we have one of the worst managers in the league right now, but he's learning rapidly with all these experience". Two games later I'm considered overly negative and pessimistic for saying the same thing.

People quite often make the cardinal error of not shutting down their emotions when they think. If people could just find their inner Hannibal Lector when discussing football, most of what I say would seem very reasonable.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

30 days ago, after the Wolves game, I would have been considered overly positive and optimistic for saying "we have one of the worst managers in the league right now, but he's learning rapidly with all these experience". Two games later I'm considered overly negative and pessimistic for saying the same thing.

People quite often make the cardinal error of not shutting down their emotions when they think. If people could just find their inner Hannibal Lector when discussing football, most of what I say would seem very reasonable.

There would have still been very few people agreeing with you even post the Wolves game.

The Wolves game showed a naivety but a lot of that was down to a head rush of players bombing forward and an extremely poor pass catching us out.

The manager cannot do much about that in that moment, he can however react to it and change players thoughts and attitudes in those situations to avoid it happening in the future.

A good manager finds ways to adapt his plan either in training or during the match and there is plenty of evidence that Fabian is capable of doing both.

 

[Han Solo]

@Han Solo , sometimes you do post some interesting and thought provoking ideas and observations, well worth a read even if they may be contrary to how some people view things. It is always worth reading a differing opinion. Sometimes your views provide a good counter to some of us more optimistic types who admittedly can view things with blue and white tinted specs.

However your last few posts on here are complete twaddle, worst manager in the league has us ONE POINT off of second, has had the best points haul after 12 games we have ever had in the top flight, . The incompetent previous manager got us to the Europa League, and WON the group-despite what happened next. You say the metrics are a better indication than league position-but dont you realise the ONLY metrics that actually matter at the end of the day are Goals (for and against) and points - and we are doing pretty well on that. We have played some of our hardest games of the season and have just started an easier run of games that could( not will but its not unlikely) see us nicely settled in the top 5 by Christmas

All teams make blunders, all teams are Naïve at times, all new coaches take time to settle the team in to their way of playing- ours has lost just twice in 12 prem games to Liverpool and Chelsea, has beaten Man Utd, Spurs, Newcastle, and arguably has had one bad game where we really should have won but threw away a 2 goal lead after 80 mins.

Yes we have ridden our luck, but again all teams do that on occasion

Huerzeler is still learning, will make errors, and will lose games we shouldnt-but if the worst manager in the league carries on being as bad for the remaining games we would finish on 70 points . Ill take that and keep our bloody awfully bad manager thanks

"but dont you realise the ONLY metrics that actually matter at the end of the day are Goals (for and against) and points"

At the end of the day, sure. But thats not where were at. And until then all the other metrics matter. The club is built around seeing beyond points and goals.

So the manager wasn't incompetent then? Is that what you're saying? We won a very tough group stage in the autumn then RDZ - not unreasonably imho - wanted the board to bolster our injury-crippled squad in January so we could maybe, just maybe, take the European Tour to the next level. Board said no. They sure as hell took his message on board tho, as we saw in the Summer spending splurge. RDZ

,He was and is.
We won a group stage against two teams that would have zero chance of staying in the PL and one with little chance. We pay our players like four times as much as Ajax or AEK. Its like calling Sunderland and Sheffield United "tough opposition". As for our squad, it was gigantic last season and is equally gigantic this time around, hopefully resolved through a few players going out on loan. RDZ had nothing to do with the recruitment in Brighton this summer and would have been very unhappy with our signings as most of them are young non-rapists, which isn't his type of person.

 

[dwayne]

Not sure we've been that lucky. We just have top 6 players all over the park now and on the bench. We are clinical, case in point Bmuff on Saturday, our players tuck away the chances, theirs don't. We are on par with teams like spurs and Newcastle. I don't think we are in a false position.

Fascinated to see how fab now does with this 'easier' run.

 

[Han Solo]

There would have still been very few people agreeing with you even post the Wolves game.

The Wolves game showed a naivety but a lot of that was down to a head rush of players bombing forward and an extremely poor pass catching us out.

The manager cannot do much about that in that moment, he can however react to it and change players thoughts and attitudes in those situations to avoid it happening in the future.

A good manager finds ways to adapt his plan either in training or during the match and there is plenty of evidence that Fabian is capable of doing both.

Sure but you could likewise say that having to change game plan at half time in virtually every game is an indication we're struggling with our game planning.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

"but dont you realise the ONLY metrics that actually matter at the end of the day are Goals (for and against) and points"

At the end of the day, sure. But thats not where were at. And until then all the other metrics matter. The club is built around seeing beyond points and goals.


,He was and is.
We won a group stage against two teams that would have zero chance of staying in the PL and one with little chance. We pay our players like four times as much as Ajax or AEK. Its like calling Sunderland and Sheffield United "tough opposition". As for our squad, it was gigantic last season and is equally gigantic this time around, hopefully resolved through a few players going out on loan. RDZ had nothing to do with the recruitment in Brighton this summer and would have been very unhappy with our signings as most of them are young non-rapists, which isn't his type of person.

Your thoughts, as always, are hugely entertaining to me, as are your strange, nay downright weird worship of GP and demonisation of RDZ. Never change

 

[BrickTamland]

I loved RDZ but those types of managers only work short term. He was a purist but couldn’t adapt and his stubbornness was starting to hurt us (see Fulham away).

Also his willingness to work with and defend Greenwood means I’d never want to see him back here. Odious.

FH still has a lot to learn but he has far exceeded any expectations I had for him and his ability to mix things up will make him more of a long term success here imo (even if the highs aren’t as high)

 

[Han Solo]

Your thoughts, as always, are hugely entertaining to me, as are your strange, nay downright weird worship of GP and demonisation of RDZ. Never change

Potter has not been here for years and I only really mention him when others do because he has little to do with whatever we're doing. Similar with RDZ (who you mention in almost every Brighton related post you do), though he is a bit more relevant as part of Fabians job was to clean up the mess Roberto left behind.

And for the record I haven't demonised RDZ: he did that all by himself through signing multiple sexual offenders and making himself a meme in the football world that way. If your idol was anti-rape rather than pro-rape, there would be less demonisation of him and more discussions of his capacity as a football manager. As it stands, you're going to have to accept that very few people (none of them sensible) consider your favorite their favorite.

 

[dazzer6666]

You believe that? Seriously? RDZ got to overrule the medical staff? Or maybe he pushed the players beyond their limits in training? There's an alternative POV, requoted on here by a player, that his training sessions were less demanding than those of FH

It's not just about training though. It's pushing players into their red zone with cumulative output, gambling on minor injuries and niggles etc etc. Do I believe De Z was capable of ignoring/playing fast and loose with advice from the (inexperienced/temporary - remember of Head of Medical and Doc had left) medical staff ? Yes. Did he ? I don't know

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Potter has not been here for years and I only really mention him when others do because he has little to do with whatever we're doing. Similar with RDZ (who you mention in almost every Brighton related post you do), though he is a bit more relevant as part of Fabians job was to clean up the mess Roberto left behind.

And for the record I haven't demonised RDZ: he did that all by himself through signing multiple sexual offenders and making himself a meme in the football world that way. If your idol was anti-rape rather than pro-rape, there would be less demonisation of him and more discussions of his capacity as a football manager. As it stands, you're going to have to accept that very few people (none of them sensible) consider your favorite their favorite.

I guess you had to be there

 

[Han Solo]

I guess you had to be there

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Why are you showing me still photos of a 45-year-old man

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Why are you showing me still photos of a 45-year-old man

To show you what it's like to have half the stadium stay behind after the last game of the season to pay their respect to a great manager and a very decent human being

 

[Greg Bobkin]

It's quite an achievement turning a thread about the current manager into a minor binfest about previous ones. Don't you just love it?!

 

[Han Solo]

To show you what it's like to have half the stadium stay behind after the last game of the season to pay their respect to a great manager and a very decent human being

Saw the game and the aftermath.

As we know, we have very different views on what constitutes a decent human being.

Anyway, nough about RDZ and Potter. But wake me up before my parasocial relationships grow into randomly posting photos of whoever my crush is.

 

[Han Solo]

It's quite an achievement turning a thread about the current manager into a minor binfest about previous ones. Don't you just love it?!

Quite normal.

If you sign a new goalkeeper, he'll be compared to the last goalkeeper. Same with a manager.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Saw the game and the aftermath.

As we know, we have very different views on what constitutes a decent human being.

Anyway, nough about RDZ and Potter. But wake me up before my parasocial relationships grow into randomly posting photos of whoever my crush is.

To be fair, you did stop short of posting photos of the crush that brought you here in the first place

 

[nickbrighton]

"but dont you realise the ONLY metrics that actually matter at the end of the day are Goals (for and against) and points"

At the end of the day, sure. But thats not where were at. And until then all the other metrics matter. The club is built around seeing beyond points and goals.

WTF are you on about- of course thats where we are- you seem to be ignoring actual points on the board for some kind of stat wonderland. Im starting to think you wouldnt be happy if we won the bloody league if the "stats" and "metrics" were bad but the results were good

I had an acquaintance who endlessly complained that the team he played for were consistently beaten by the same team, that his team were much better but had lost the previous 4 or 5 meetings with this team.His team (and him) played far better football, were much better. I pointed out that the object of the game was to score more goals than your opposition, and if they had managed that 4 or 5 times on the trot they were by definition, the better team.

It matters not if you have an xG of 5 per game v an Opponents xG of 0.5 if you dont stick the bloody ball in the net and they do, and it doesn't actually matter how you do it, as long as it goes in more times than your opponents

 

[Han Solo]

WTF are you on about- of course thats where we are- you seem to be ignoring actual points on the board for some kind of stat wonderland. Im starting to think you wouldnt be happy if we won the bloody league if the "stats" and "metrics" were bad but the results were good

I had an acquaintance who endlessly complained that the team he played for were consistently beaten by the same team, that his team were much better but had lost the previous 4 or 5 meetings with this team.His team (and him) played far better football, were much better. I pointed out that the object of the game was to score more goals than your opposition, and if they had managed that 4 or 5 times on the trot they were by definition, the better team.

It matters not if you have an xG of 5 per game v an Opponents xG of 0.5 if you dont stick the bloody ball in the net and they do, and it doesn't actually matter how you do it, as long as it goes in more times than your opponents

Thats your way of seeing football. I don't agree with it and don't think its a successful way of operating.
If we were only to look at goals and points, we'd get rid of the players who lost many games and replace them with people who won many games.

If we were more interested in the results and goals scored by Carlos Baleba last season, rather than the other metrics showing his development, we'd have shipped him this summer along with a bunch of our other most talented players. Stats and goals from last season says Will Hughes is a better player than Carlos, so maybe thats who we should have gone for?

xG, xPoints and thousand other non-goal non-point metrics often provide relevant information, including about where we might finish at the end of the season. The importance of these stats are why Tony Bloom is running a data analysis company called Starlizard with 301 employees rather than having a single lad sitting around counting our goals and points with pen-and-paper.