Just found this on facebook

[spongy]

Christ I only wanted to put up smutty pics of posh totty, not start a class war!!!!

I do apologise, and yes, that is a good find,

there is a page on facebook called the "wank bank" that I saw on my mates profile yesterday, that's worth a look too if you like photos of skantily clad ladies in provocative poses.

 

[Worthingite]

I do apologise, and yes, that is a good find,

there is a page on facebook called the "wank bank" that I saw on my mates profile yesterday, that's worth a look too if you like photos of skantily clad ladies in provocative poses.

I have a massive thing for posh women. I love the sound of their voice with my plums in their mouth

 

[junior]

You mean the way you keep avoiding how does anyone with an ounce of humanity justify watching another animal killed by dogs ??

I've stated several times on this thread already, but you've chosen to ignore it.

The numbers of foxes in this country need to be controlled. The most humane way of doing so is for them to killed by hounds. It's natural! More importantly it isn't allowed to happen anymore and the fox has to be killed by other means. We use an Eagle and unfortunately it is not as quick as it would be using hounds. So foxes are actually suffering at the hands of this ban brought in to protect them, hence why it is a farce!

 

[junior]

Im confused your against poisening rats but okay to fox hunt not sure what point your raising there and to compare fox number to rats its madness not that I agree with how they are killed maybe your right there should be a more painless way to kill rats if they become a problem maybe thats a different argument, not sure how you can see that rat poison is painful and cruel but cant see fox hunting is, back to the facts you are on a horse chasing a frightened animal which is then torn apart by dogs please give me 2the fact2 that make that right

Of course I am not against the rat population being controlled. Poisoning must be a horrible way to die but the chosen method employed by pest controllers is not my concern. I will add again that Foxhunting IS NOT 'cruel'. The fox, when being chased, has no concept that it could be about to die, this has been researched fully.

 

[junior]

No it isn't. You haven't given any facts to show how getting dogs to rip up a fox is humane. What you have attempted to do is say that anyone disagreeing with you must be a leftie that isn't happy about the Tories stopping the minors strike. You're not fighting your argument with any facts, you're just pretending this is about something else.

Not at all, I couldn't give a toss about polotics. It is something I know little about outside of what interests/affects me.

I did give you facts. The foxes death is almost instantanious when killed by hounds. This is far more humane than the other methods used to keep the fox population under control. I'm not sure what else i am pretending this is about?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The fox, when being chased, has no concept that it could be about to die, this has been researched fully.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

What did they do? Did they ask them? Was the survey mulitple choice?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The foxes death is almost instantanious when killed by hounds.

Apart from the being chased by a pack of hounds part, the cowering in a hole part and the being dug up part??

 

[ditchy]

I have a massive thing for posh women. I love the sound of their voice with my plums in their mouth

whose plums

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The fox, when being chased, has no concept that it could be about to die.

Why does it RUN then?

 

[junior]

See what I don't get Junior is your assumption that unless we control the fox population by hunting the countryside is going to be overrun with our furry friends

It is well documented that if hunting of foxes ceased, there would be a large increase in their numbers. For farmers this would see the potential loss of more lambs, poultry, piglets and game birds due to preditation, and more damage to crops. Ask any farmer. (not if they are PRO hunting, but if fox numbers would increase).

The reason we have not seen an increase in their numbers since the introduction of the ban is because hunting of foxes is still carried out LEGALLY. You can hunt foxes with hounds as long as the hounds don't kill the fox. You can kill it by other means, and as I have already stated, none of these means are as effective as hounds.

 

[BadFish]

How many foxes get killed per hunt? Surely if the reason people hunt is to cull foxes they could find a more efficient way to do it.

To say that it is the most humane way to cull them is so laughably stupid it beggers belief.

 

[junior]

Why does it RUN then?

My apologies for this being 'cut & paste', however it is worded better than I ever could. It give you the answer to your question and dispels the argument that the 'chase' is the cruel part.


A large number of scientists who study animal behaviour believe that foxes are fully in control of their wits. Furthermore, observation by countrypeople over hundreds of years shows that:- (a) They appear not to anticipate their possible death. (b) They seem not to be tortured by being chased. A large body of authoritative opinion has good reason to assume that their genes, together with inherited and acquired learning, have adapted them to the chase. However, the "Cruelty Argument" will remain sterile because it is subjective, either way, until it becomes possible for a human being to know objectively what a fox is thinking.

Two British zoologists at the University of Nottingham, (Chris Barnard, professor of animal behaviour and Jane Hurst, a behavioural ecologist) back up observations that foxes seem not to anticipate death and appear not to be suffering while being chased. Their views can be summarised as:-
(a) animals who are hunted regularly (e.g. foxes) may well be conditioned to regard the stress of being hunted as normal ;
(b) do not confuse stress with suffering.
Stress is a physical condition. Suffering is a mental condition. The former does not inevitably cause the latter. A marathon runner is highly stressed but is not suffering unless his stress exceeds anything that he has experienced previously and has not, therefore, mentally adapted himself to cope with. Stress produces adrenalin and endorphins which produce exhilaration to mask some of the stress. Judgements in respect of animals about the balance between pain and exhilaration (both caused by a stress) are very difficult and human analogies are unlikely to be reliable. The fact that foxes are fully in control of their wits when being hunted is shown by the following examples:- they know how much scent they leave, how to mask it by running through ground fouled by cattle etc. or water and how to use the wind. Also other tactics too numerous to discuss here. They use these tactics methodically while being chased. Foxes have been seen to kill and eat a small mammal while being hunted.


I hope that answers your question and should put an end to that side of the argument.

 

[junior]

Surely if the reason people hunt is to cull foxes they could find a more efficient way to do it.

Would you care to give a few suggestions for other ways to cull foxes?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

My apologies for this being 'cut & paste', however it is worded better than I ever could. It give you the answer to your question and dispels the argument that the 'chase' is the cruel part.


A large number of scientists who study animal behaviour believe that foxes are fully in control of their wits. Furthermore, observation by countrypeople over hundreds of years shows that:- (a) They appear not to anticipate their possible death. (b) They seem not to be tortured by being chased. A large body of authoritative opinion has good reason to assume that their genes, together with inherited and acquired learning, have adapted them to the chase. However, the "Cruelty Argument" will remain sterile because it is subjective, either way, until it becomes possible for a human being to know objectively what a fox is thinking.

Two British zoologists at the University of Nottingham, (Chris Barnard, professor of animal behaviour and Jane Hurst, a behavioural ecologist) back up observations that foxes seem not to anticipate death and appear not to be suffering while being chased. Their views can be summarised as:-
(a) animals who are hunted regularly (e.g. foxes) may well be conditioned to regard the stress of being hunted as normal ;
(b) do not confuse stress with suffering.
Stress is a physical condition. Suffering is a mental condition. The former does not inevitably cause the latter. A marathon runner is highly stressed but is not suffering unless his stress exceeds anything that he has experienced previously and has not, therefore, mentally adapted himself to cope with. Stress produces adrenalin and endorphins which produce exhilaration to mask some of the stress. Judgements in respect of animals about the balance between pain and exhilaration (both caused by a stress) are very difficult and human analogies are unlikely to be reliable. The fact that foxes are fully in control of their wits when being hunted is shown by the following examples:- they know how much scent they leave, how to mask it by running through ground fouled by cattle etc. or water and how to use the wind. Also other tactics too numerous to discuss here. They use these tactics methodically while being chased. Foxes have been seen to kill and eat a small mammal while being hunted.


I hope that answers your question and should put an end to that side of the argument.

The line in bold is the interesting one. You seem to think this only works one way.

Also, I'm confused by the concept of these animals being 'conditioned' through being 'regularly hunted'. Surely if its such an efficient means of controlling them, each fox would only be hunted ONCE?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Would you care to give a few suggestions for other ways to cull foxes?

Have a trained marksman shoot it. Bang. Job done.

 

[Triggaaar]

I did give you facts. The foxes death is almost instantanious when killed by hounds.

That isn't a fact. When foxes have been examined post hunt, it's been found that they have not had instantaneous deaths, they have been ripped apart at the stomach (as I said).

This is far more humane than the other methods used to keep the fox population under control. I'm not sure what else i am pretending this is about?

So now you're saying it's more humane than the other methods used (which others on this thread are already debating), whereas earlier you were saying it's the most humane way there is. That's not the same. You are pretending that you've given clear facts. There's nothing factual about what you're saying, it's just the usual deluded trite.

 

[BadFish]

Have a trained marksman shoot it. Bang. Job done.

Assuming he had a few bullets he could probably get rid of a fair few in a day.

 

[Triggaaar]

Have a trained marksman shoot it. Bang. Job done.

It's not difficult is it. If on death row, and your day had come, who would chose to be killed by a pack of wolves or lions instead of being shot in the head?

 

[junior]

Also, I'm confused by the concept of these animals being 'conditioned' through being 'regularly hunted'. Surely if its such an efficient means of controlling them, each fox would only be hunted ONCE?

No not at all. Quite a few get away and against popular belief, are not dug up.
If for example you decided that shooting foxes was the best way to control their numbers, how would you go about this? How many foxes have you seen in the wild face to face? A few i'd guess, but a LOT less than the hounds can scent and find.

So the hounds are used as the most effective way of 'finding' the foxes, a short chase ensues and then at the end they either get away or are killed almost instantaniously, or should I say COULD be. At the moment we have to use other means at the buisness end.

 

[BadFish]

Would you care to give a few suggestions for other ways to cull foxes?

I would guess the same way they cull other animals would be a good start.

To be honest i am struggling to think of any ways less efficient that chasing one about all day with a load of dogs and some tossers on horse back who think they own the country side and treat everbody else in it like shit!