James Mclean - Sunderland refused to wear shirt with poppy on

[hans kraay fan club]

Have you been there ??

Well I did a few years ago and I was genuinely shocked. I expected England with rain, I didnt expect whole communities ghettoed into bunting, flag waving, kerb painted, vindictive sectarianism, God only knows what it must have been like during the troubles.

Mclean if he wasnt a footballer would no doubt be a Celtic sectarian chanter booing our troops at the pre match display, spewing vile abuse, it comes with territory and of course his Loyalist foes would be doing the exact same thing.

Not that it would disqualify my opinion if I hadn't, but yes, I guess about 20 times, for various work matters. In fact I'm back in Belfast in 10 days time for a couple of nights.

I'm also married to an Irish Catholic.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

We shouldn't 'forget' and hopefully we will never forget as remembrance day will continue every year. To try and out-berate someone like this, especially with his local history is blatant 'who can be the most patriotic', and who can wear the biggest poppy. It should never have been introduced into sport as it's got f*** all to do with it.
Jesus. Every weekend is a flaming womens period in the premiership nowadays and the media love it, and we mop it up. Get over it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

His employer, Ellis Short, is American.

I'm pretty certain Sunderland AFC are his employers and they are an English company, albeit with an American owner.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Plenty on the Sunderland forums want him out.

Mostly cos they reckon he's been shit for them this season!

Some pretty bigoted stuff on Twitter (from both 'sides ')

 

[CT1]

Hundreds of innocent catholics killed by the british army in Londonderry and belfast ?? do f*** off, emotive rubbish spouted to you by your mother , who I would suggest shares the same streak of hypocrisy as james mclean.

Sorry do you have family who have lived there to witness it? No? Dinn't think so. Do you also know my mother at all? No? Didn't think so.

 

[CT1]

By far the most bigoted post on this thread.
Couple of corrections:
1/ It's Londonderry
2/ It's Northern Ireland , and the majority in the south realise this. Unlike the bigoted republicans in the north they can see that a unified Ireland would never work.
3/ If you are suggesting that death in the troubles was caused as a direct result of British action alone, then I think you are forgetting three simple letters. I.R.A.

Well you may call it London Derry and Northern Ireland but I do not recognize the terms. Secondly, of course i'm not suggesting it was all the fault of Britain's army. As well as those three letters you mentioned, there are other letters such as U.V.F, R.U.C, U.D.A etc who also played there part in the killings of the troubles and who may I add, colluded with the army to organize the murders of innocent catholics and indeed some protestants. All the organizations played their part in the killings, but would they have occurred if the north of Ireland was occupied? I think not. Yes, the UVF would of course have rebelled but not to the scale that the Irish rebels did.

 

[kjgood]

No way should he wear a poppy and I am delighted to see that he hasn't done so. My mum is from Ardoyne in North Belfast, a very similar place to Free Derry in terms of deprivation and republicanism. Both areas together have seen hundreds of innocent catholics from their communities killed at the hands of the British army. No one from those areas should have to wear something that honors that army. However, its good to see that a lot of British people can understand that. Also its important to remember that people who don't wear a poppy still remember and mourn those who made the ultimate sacrifice in world wars one and two. Indeed it wasn't just English men and women that fought for the British in those wars, but many, and certainly me, cannot remember and pay respect to those who inflicted terror in places such as the Falklands and Ireland and today in Afghanistan. The armys intentions in Afghanistan are good but its a waste of life. We have bigger problems of our own here in Britain. The Falklands was also a massive waste of life, with over 250 of our troops dying to keep a few islands under the crown. As for the north of Ireland, that 'country' should never even have been established, it should have been given back to the Irish along with the south when it was instead partitioned in 1921, at the time around the British empire was coming to its end. Instead partition indeed was the case, resulting in the death of 3000 in the troubles, and the death of a prison officer just last week! Some just can't remember those who took part in these things and rightly so.

I assume with this attitude your living in NI or the Provinces if you prefer the term, and not having the luxury of living in relative peace, safety and tolerance here in England, Wales or Scotland? If you are here, it leads me to wonder why you are not back in Ardoyne fighting the cause? You also seem to forget that the Army, RAF and Navy for that matter don't have 'intentions' they carry out the political will of the UK Government. When people are still fighting each other because of events of 1688 and 1845 however right or wrong they were, and still shooting and persecuting each other because of someones religious belief, then to me it just shows what a poor state the country or Provinces are still in.

I personally as someone who has been shot at, had bricks and petrol bombs slung at me, spat at by people I was there to protect, had mortars regularly fired at me (badly i would concede) and had to pick up bodies after they had been shredded, find your views offensive, however in this tolerant country you are entitled to make them and not be knee capped as you would be back in 'good old Derry/Londonderry or Belfast'.

 

[jameswestport]

touchy subject

 

[CT1]

I am indeed living in Brighton, because my father is english, Brighton born, who's parents are Protestant. The reason I am not in Ardoyne fighting the cause as you put it is because firstly, no such thing exists today so that isn't possible. Secondly, because I do not support 'dissident' republicans. They do not nearly have enough support, money or membership to remove the British from the north so there is simply no point in violence on the the dissident's scale because its a waste of life. Killing drug dealers and the occasional member of the British army, Prison officer or member of the RUC/PSNI every few years is no way going to bring about a unified Ireland free from foreigner interferance. If the provisionals couldn't do it then there is no chance today. The war ended when Sinn Fein sold out in 1998 and that was that as far as the armed cause was concerned.

You were representing and maintaining the state in Ireland (if that is where you were serving), so its no shock to me you witnessed such things, what were you expecting? Cups of tea for the entire time you were serving there? Haha please don't make me laugh, that all ended when you murdered 13 innocent catholic people in the Bog-side.

 

[User removed 4]

Sorry do you have family who have lived there to witness it? No? Dinn't think so. Do you also know my mother at all? No? Didn't think so.

Do I have family there seeing it first hand ? In Northern Ireland yes, not nationalist areas , but i'd hazard a guess I've spent a hell of a lot more time in hardline republican areas than you ever have , so I'VE SEEN it first hand and can tell you that your statement of " hundreds of innocent catholics killed by the british army " is nonsense, and is either an attempt by you to sensationalise a statement to make your argument more valid or the sort of mawkish, misty eyed claptrap that is usually only swallowed by gullible 5th generation Irish Americans at NORAID fundraisers , do I know your Mum ? I dont know for sure but I had a twos up with two catholic birds from belfast in Lloret de mar in 1987, one was from andersonstown and I'm not sure where the other one was from , it may have been the ardoyne, ask your mum if she ever stuck her little finger up a bloke called bushy's arse whilst simeltaneously sucking his bell end, if so , then yes I do know her.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Do I have family there seeing it first hand ? In Northern Ireland yes, not nationalist areas , but i'd hazard a guess I've spent a hell of a lot more time in hardline republican areas than you ever have , so I'VE SEEN it first hand and can tell you that your statement of " hundreds of innocent catholics killed by the british army " is nonsense, and is either an attempt by you to sensationalise a statement to make your argument more valid or the sort of mawkish, misty eyed claptrap that is usually only swallowed by gullible 5th generation Irish Americans at NORAID fundraisers , do I know your Mum ? I dont know for sure but I had a twos up with two catholic birds from belfast in Lloret de mar in 1987, one was from andersonstown and I'm not sure where the other one was from , it may have been the ardoyne, ask your mum if she ever stuck her little finger up a bloke called bushy's arse whilst simeltaneously sucking his bell end, if so , then yes I do know her.

This is not the first time I've seen the words bell end and Bushy in the same sentence, it's the first time it's made me want to heave up my granola though.

 

[User removed 4]

This is not the first time I've seen the words bell end and Bushy in the same sentence, it's the first time it's made me want to heave up my granola though.

Granola bar or cereal with soy milk ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Granola bar or cereal with soy milk ?

A bar. It was a little snack after a run along the sea front. My real weekday breakfast is coffee, croissant and The Guardian as you probably know/can guess. And for the record I hate soy milk. For extra pretentious wanker points Ill soon be reading The Guardian on an iPad though.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Well you may call it London Derry and Northern Ireland but I do not recognize the terms. Secondly, of course i'm not suggesting it was all the fault of Britain's army. As well as those three letters you mentioned, there are other letters such as U.V.F, R.U.C, U.D.A etc who also played there part in the killings of the troubles and who may I add, colluded with the army to organize the murders of innocent catholics and indeed some protestants. All the organizations played their part in the killings, but would they have occurred if the north of Ireland was occupied? I think not. Yes, the UVF would of course have rebelled but not to the scale that the Irish rebels did.

But you call it the North of Ireland, which is factually incorrect! The most northerly point on the Island of Ireland is in the Republic. Making what you call the territory redundant.

As for the UVF, RUC and UDA. They sprung up in opposition to the IRA and other nationalist and republican movements.
The majority of people in Northern Ireland wanted to be British when it was partitioned, they wanted to be British when they had a referendum, and the majority (although smaller, but that is for a whole host of reasons) still today want to remain an integral part of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

 

[kjgood]

I am indeed living in Brighton, because my father is english, Brighton born, who's parents are Protestant. The reason I am not in Ardoyne fighting the cause as you put it is because firstly, no such thing exists today so that isn't possible. Secondly, because I do not support 'dissident' republicans. They do not nearly have enough support, money or membership to remove the British from the north so there is simply no point in violence on the the dissident's scale because its a waste of life. Killing drug dealers and the occasional member of the British army, Prison officer or member of the RUC/PSNI every few years is no way going to bring about a unified Ireland free from foreigner interferance. If the provisionals couldn't do it then there is no chance today. The war ended when Sinn Fein sold out in 1998 and that was that as far as the armed cause was concerned.

You were representing and maintaining the state in Ireland (if that is where you were serving), so its no shock to me you witnessed such things, what were you expecting? Cups of tea for the entire time you were serving there? Haha please don't make me laugh, that all ended when you murdered 13 innocent catholic people in the Bog-side.

I most certainly didnt murder 13 innocent people although i did serve with 2 Para, did several tours of duty and have seen more of the issues in NI probably more than you. Your tainted views miss the point that the majority of people in NI wish to be part of the UK and that is their democratic wish. I wont rise to your bait regarding 13 innocent people, a court of law should decide on that.

If the Northern Irish people as a majority wish to remove British rule, all they have to do is have a referendum and vote in favour of doing this. But on more than several occasions they have decided they wish to remain British. Its extremists such as you that do not support democracy and the majority view. But you choose to live in MY country and enjoy the benefits of democracy, a huge contradiction.

Until the NI people decide to reject British rule then the word foreigner for British soldiers or Prison Officers has no status and you are severly misguided. I invite you to please go home!

 

[ROKERITE]

I am indeed living in Brighton, because my father is english, Brighton born, who's parents are Protestant. The reason I am not in Ardoyne fighting the cause as you put it is because firstly, no such thing exists today so that isn't possible. Secondly, because I do not support 'dissident' republicans. They do not nearly have enough support, money or membership to remove the British from the north so there is simply no point in violence on the the dissident's scale because its a waste of life. Killing drug dealers and the occasional member of the British army, Prison officer or member of the RUC/PSNI every few years is no way going to bring about a unified Ireland free from foreigner interferance. If the provisionals couldn't do it then there is no chance today. The war ended when Sinn Fein sold out in 1998 and that was that as far as the armed cause was concerned.

You were representing and maintaining the state in Ireland (if that is where you were serving), so its no shock to me you witnessed such things, what were you expecting? Cups of tea for the entire time you were serving there? Haha please don't make me laugh, that all ended when you murdered 13 innocent catholic people in the Bog-side.

What a sad example you are. You've an English, Protestant father's side, but it's your Northern Irish RC mother whose poisonous hatred you've imbibed. What a pity she couldn't have put her bigotry and ignorance behind her when she moved to the mainland, rather than passing it on to her son. It's a shame you aren't bright enough to see the bigger picture.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

What a sad example you are. You've an English, Protestant father's side, but it's your Northern Irish RC mother whose poisonous hatred you've imbibed. What a pity she couldn't have put her bigotry and ignorance behind her when she moved to the mainland, rather than passing it on to her son. It's a shame you aren't bright enough to see the bigger picture.

I think you've made some very harsh and unfair slurs and assumptions on this guy's mother there. If she was the sectarian bigot that you are suggesting, would she really have entered a relationship with an English Protestant? Probably not.

CallumTulley seems to have some pretty one-eyed views, that's true. Unfair to automatically assume where he got them from.

 

[User removed 4]

I think you've made some very harsh and unfair slurs and assumptions on this guy's mother there. If she was the sectarian bigot that you are suggesting, would she really have entered a relationship with an English Protestant? Probably not.

CallumTulley seems to have some pretty one-eyed views, that's true. Unfair to automatically assume where he got them from.

Perhaps the mother from the ardoyne that me mentioned straight away in his first post on this thread ? Seriously being "open minded" and not assuming things is fine , but not when the evidence is staring you in the f***ing face , it's ridiculous, where do you suppose he got them from , his brighton born english protestant father or his ardoyne born, irish catholic mother ?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Perhaps the mother from the ardoyne that me mentioned straight away in his first post on this thread ? Seriously being "open minded" and not assuming things is fine , but not when the evidence is staring you in the f***ing face , it's ridiculous, where do you suppose he got them from , his brighton born english protestant father or his ardoyne born, irish catholic mother ?

Friends? His school? An uncle? Sports team? University? The internet? His mother?

 

[BigGully]

Not that it would disqualify my opinion if I hadn't, but yes, I guess about 20 times, for various work matters. In fact I'm back in Belfast in 10 days time for a couple of nights.

I'm also married to an Irish Catholic.

I noticed that you havent totally condemned my quite harsh view of NI, although I have to qualify that the people I met were very nice.

I found it quite intriguing, even the road signs of towns and villages that had somehow made their way into my sub-conscience for the many killings and atrocities in the 70's that seemed to dominate the news channels of my childhood.

But it was the ghettoing of Catholics and Protestants that I just wasnt expecting, I would drive through a village of about 6 houses and each one had a flag pole and the loyalists flag on each house, then randomly travel further and off into a Catholic area with the tricolour on each lampost and house, it was quite chilling.

Each community have a story to tell about prejudice and perceived injustices against them.

Mclean has just exported those rather nasty traits.

He just needed show a wee bit more respect for his host country and the men, women and children that support him here in England.