[Politics] Is it time for the UK to become a republic?

[The Clamp]

We should become a republic. Yes, I rather like the tradition and stability of a royal family. But on balance we'd be better off without them. The practice of sealed wills and the vast sums of money they extract from the taxpayer, year in, year out is frankly disgusting.

Plus you don't gain and maintain that amount of wealth and power without a level of enforcement and imperialism. Which doesn't sit well with me.

This trick they have managed to pull by somehow presenting themselves as people in service, there to serve the people, is astonishing.

A lifetime of service? And some say nurses have it bad.

It all makes me a bit bilious to be honest.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

“A diktat (from German: Diktat, [dɪkˈtaːt]) is a statute, harsh penalty or settlement imposed upon a defeated party by the victor, or a dogmatic decree.”

Having just looked, there’s a number of definitions of the word, most which fit Pogue’s post.

 

[dsr-burnley]

We should become a republic. Yes, I rather like the tradition and stability of a royal family. But on balance we'd be better off without them. The practice of sealed wills and the vast sums of money they extract from the taxpayer, year in, year out is frankly disgusting.

Plus you don't gain and maintain that amount of wealth and power without a level of enforcement and imperialism. Which doesn't sit well with me.

This trick they have managed to pull by somehow presenting themselves as people in service, there to serve the people, is astonishing.

A lifetime of service? And some say nurses have it bad.

It all makes me a bit bilious to be honest.

Do you have any alternative plans, or is it basically "bring on the generalissimo, you can't be worse than this"?

I think before we abolish the monarchy (which I certainly hope we don't) we need to establish who will replace them for all the necessary functions - essentially the holding of power. Who will the armed forces swear allegiance to? Who will the courts owe their allegiance to? Who will Parliament swear allegiance to? Or of course what will they swear allegiance to, if you prefer an inanimate object to be the replacement? Do we have a president? Do we have a human head of state? If yes, who gets it and how do they get it?

 

[The Clamp]

Do you have any alternative plans, or is it basically "bring on the generalissimo, you can't be worse than this"?

I think before we abolish the monarchy (which I certainly hope we don't) we need to establish who will replace them for all the necessary functions - essentially the holding of power. Who will the armed forces swear allegiance to? Who will the courts owe their allegiance to? Who will Parliament swear allegiance to? Or of course what will they swear allegiance to, if you prefer an inanimate object to be the replacement? Do we have a president? Do we have a human head of state? If yes, who gets it and how do they get it?

I would examine the models used by all the very successful countries that are republics and see what they are getting right. There are more variants than “the Queen or Trump”

It’s not up to me to figure it out. I’d just prefer not to have a monarchy.

 

[Driver8]

Do you have any alternative plans, or is it basically "bring on the generalissimo, you can't be worse than this"?

I think before we abolish the monarchy (which I certainly hope we don't) we need to establish who will replace them for all the necessary functions - essentially the holding of power. Who will the armed forces swear allegiance to? Who will the courts owe their allegiance to? Who will Parliament swear allegiance to? Or of course what will they swear allegiance to, if you prefer an inanimate object to be the replacement? Do we have a president? Do we have a human head of state? If yes, who gets it and how do they get it?

Why does anyone need to “swear allegiance” to anything? It means nothing and is just words. It’s not going to change anyone’s job if they don’t.

 

[jcdenton08]

Why does anyone need to “swear allegiance” to anything? It means nothing and is just words. It’s not going to change anyone’s job if they don’t.

It’s a function of law.

 

[Driver8]

It’s a function of law.

Which I’m sure can be changed.

 

[rogersix]

Do you have any alternative plans, or is it basically "bring on the generalissimo, you can't be worse than this"?

I think before we abolish the monarchy (which I certainly hope we don't) we need to establish who will replace them for all the necessary functions - essentially the holding of power. Who will the armed forces swear allegiance to? Who will the courts owe their allegiance to? Who will Parliament swear allegiance to? Or of course what will they swear allegiance to, if you prefer an inanimate object to be the replacement? Do we have a president? Do we have a human head of state? If yes, who gets it and how do they get it?

there must be a goat in the army that could be promoted to commander-in-chief, and perform all the other tasks asked of the monarch

 

[The Clamp]

It’s a function of law.

Do they not have law in republics?

One can just swear allegiance to one’s God or country. It’s not a huge stumbling block.

Swear allegiance to a packet of Revels if you like, it makes zero difference to a legal outcome.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I would examine the models used by all the very successful countries that are republics and see what they are getting right. There are more variants than “the Queen or Trump”

It’s not up to me to figure it out. I’d just prefer not to have a monarchy.

I take it you will examine the models of very successful countries with monarchies too?

I'm sure there are more variants. And it would be utterly foolish to scrap a working system until we have decided which of the many variants would be a good fir for the UK. (And I definitely don't agree that having an army that doesn't have any particular loyalty, is a good idea.)

 

[Swansman]

Do you have any alternative plans, or is it basically "bring on the generalissimo, you can't be worse than this"?

I think before we abolish the monarchy (which I certainly hope we don't) we need to establish who will replace them for all the necessary functions - essentially the holding of power. Who will the armed forces swear allegiance to? Who will the courts owe their allegiance to? Who will Parliament swear allegiance to? Or of course what will they swear allegiance to, if you prefer an inanimate object to be the replacement? Do we have a president? Do we have a human head of state? If yes, who gets it and how do they get it?

Over here, the judges in the court used to swear allegience to the King until 1975 when it was decided that we're a democratic country and the King should stay the **** out our justice system, changing it to:
"”I (name) promise and affirm on my honour and conscience that I will and shall impartially, as to the rich as well as to the poor, administer justice in all matters to the best of my ability and conscience, and judge according to the law of the Realm of Sweden; that I will never manipulate the law or further injustice for kinship, relation by marriage, friendship, envy, ill-will, or fear, nor for bribes or gifts, or any other cause in whatever guise it may appear; nor will I declare guilty one who is innocent, or innocent one who is guilty. Neither before nor after the pronouncement of the judgment of the court shall I disclose to the litigants or to other persons the in camera deliberations of the court. All this, as a honest and righteous judge, I will and shall faithfully observe.”

Strangely our society did not collapse from this change and neither would yours.

 

[The Clamp]

I take it you will examine the models of very successful countries with monarchies too?

I'm sure there are more variants. And it would be utterly foolish to scrap a working system until we have decided which of the many variants would be a good fir for the UK. (And I definitely don't agree that having an army that doesn't have any particular loyalty, is a good idea.)

I wasn’t aware anyone had put time pressure on this theoretical abolition of the monarchy. Yes, I think if it were ever to happen, it would be thoroughly thought through.

I can put your mind at rest, I have no authority to make it happen. So rest easy.

 

[rogersix]

I take it you will examine the models of very successful countries with monarchies too?

I'm sure there are more variants. And it would be utterly foolish to scrap a working system until we have decided which of the many variants would be a good fir for the UK. (And I definitely don't agree that having an army that doesn't have any particular loyalty, is a good idea.)

lance corporal william windsor is, at the moment, retired in whipsnade

 

[BadFish]

We should become a republic. Yes, I rather like the tradition and stability of a royal family. But on balance we'd be better off without them. The practice of sealed wills and the vast sums of money they extract from the taxpayer, year in, year out is frankly disgusting.

Plus you don't gain and maintain that amount of wealth and power without a level of enforcement and imperialism. Which doesn't sit well with me.

This trick they have managed to pull by somehow presenting themselves as people in service, there to serve the people, is astonishing.

A lifetime of service? And some say nurses have it bad.

It all makes me a bit bilious to be honest.

Set them up as a tourist attraction and they can live of the proceeds. They will still be well off and can maximize their profits in there own way (I am thinking stocks and a paedo). Other than that they can keep out of the running of a democratic country and keep their fingers out of the public purse and take the house of lords with them.

Anyway that is a long way down the track. For the nearer future I would settle for Australia to work out a new system.



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[Herr Tubthumper]

it would be utterly foolish to scrap a working system until we have decided which of the many variants would be a good fir for the UK.

Foolishness hasn’t stopped the UK doing this in very recent years has it?

 

[nicko31]

Set them up as a tourist attraction and they can live of the proceeds. They will still be well off and can maximize their profits in there own way (I am thinking stocks and a paedo). Other than that they can keep out of the running of a democratic country and keep their fingers out of the public purse and take the house of lords with them.

Anyway that is a long way down the track. For the nearer future I would settle for Australia to work out a new system.



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The question is the near term won't be able the UK becoming a Republic, it will be about the 15 nations that still have the Queen as head of State.

Australia and Jamaica I'd say are top of the list. Our system has worked for them but its a bizarre arrangement for the modern age

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Set them up as a tourist attraction and they can live of the proceeds. They will still be well off and can maximize their profits in there own way (I am thinking stocks and a paedo). Other than that they can keep out of the running of a democratic country and keep their fingers out of the public purse and take the house of lords with them.

Anyway that is a long way down the track. For the nearer future I would settle for Australia to work out a new system.



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So you trust politicians with the public purse do you?
FFS....do you people never learn. They are our elected representatives but they do not represent us or our national interest. They take us to war without reference. They sell off our gold reserve without reference. They abuse the education of our children without reference. They bail out institutionally corrupt banks with public money without reference. They pay out billions to banks in lockdown to help business, without due diligence and then allow the corrupt banks to further lend to spurious and fictional companies, that then disappear into thin air. Then the government, after the horse has bolted, spend hundreds of millions trying to find these missing companies. They award contracts, without reference, to friends and friends of friends. They stealth tax us to fill up their coffers that they have successfully emptied themselves through irresponsibility. They pay lip service to business. Finding ever increasing ways to drain more money out of them, stifling investment and growth. They pump billions into foreign aid, much of which lines the pockets of foreign leaders, all without reference, whilst leaving our public services short of money.
We are a passive nation. More concerned with ourselves than national interest. We get the public figures we deserve because we vote them in and then leave them unaccountable to do whatever they like. Its easy to throw shit at the Royal Family. Soft targets. Parasites who don't contribute anything. Well, take a look around you. Whole swathes of people in this country, millions and millions, who have decided that it is easier to milk the system and live off tax payers money and contribute as little as they can, whilst extracting as much as they can for themselves. The feckless, the greedy and the entitled. All living around you and all being supported by elected representatives. Our society needs checks and balances to stop these idiots burning down the asylum. I despise them. Every single one of them. Caught with their noses in the trough a few years ago, they got away with it, unpunished. The British public turned a blind eye to it. Well fck you and everyone else who wants a republic. Your welcome to it.

 

[Bakero]

So you trust politicians with the public purse do you?
FFS....do you people never learn. They are our elected representatives but they do not represent us or our national interest. They take us to war without reference. They sell off our gold reserve without reference. They abuse the education of our children without reference. They bail out institutionally corrupt banks with public money without reference. They pay out billions to banks in lockdown to help business, without due diligence and then allow the corrupt banks to further lend to spurious and fictional companies, that then disappear into thin air. Then the government, after the horse has bolted, spend hundreds of millions trying to find these missing companies. They award contracts, without reference, to friends and friends of friends. They stealth tax us to fill up their coffers that they have successfully emptied themselves through irresponsibility. They pay lip service to business. Finding ever increasing ways to drain more money out of them, stifling investment and growth. They pump billions into foreign aid, much of which lines the pockets of foreign leaders, all without reference, whilst leaving our public services short of money.
We are a passive nation. More concerned with ourselves than national interest. We get the public figures we deserve because we vote them in and then leave them unaccountable to do whatever they like. Its easy to throw shit at the Royal Family. Soft targets. Parasites who don't contribute anything. Well, take a look around you. Whole swathes of people in this country, millions and millions, who have decided that it is easier to milk the system and live off tax payers money and contribute as little as they can, whilst extracting as much as they can for themselves. The feckless, the greedy and the entitled. All living around you and all being supported by elected representatives. Our society needs checks and balances to stop these idiots burning down the asylum. I despise them. Every single one of them. Caught with their noses in the trough a few years ago, they got away with it, unpunished. The British public turned a blind eye to it. Well fck you and everyone else who wants a republic. Your welcome to it.

Fingers crossed King Charlie and his magic hat can save us from the tyranny of democracy.

 

[nicko31]

So you trust politicians with the public purse do you?
FFS....do you people never learn. They are our elected representatives but they do not represent us or our national interest. They take us to war without reference. They sell off our gold reserve without reference. They abuse the education of our children without reference. They bail out institutionally corrupt banks with public money without reference. They pay out billions to banks in lockdown to help business, without due diligence and then allow the corrupt banks to further lend to spurious and fictional companies, that then disappear into thin air. Then the government, after the horse has bolted, spend hundreds of millions trying to find these missing companies. They award contracts, without reference, to friends and friends of friends. They stealth tax us to fill up their coffers that they have successfully emptied themselves through irresponsibility. They pay lip service to business. Finding ever increasing ways to drain more money out of them, stifling investment and growth. They pump billions into foreign aid, much of which lines the pockets of foreign leaders, all without reference, whilst leaving our public services short of money.
We are a passive nation. More concerned with ourselves than national interest. We get the public figures we deserve because we vote them in and then leave them unaccountable to do whatever they like. Its easy to throw shit at the Royal Family. Soft targets. Parasites who don't contribute anything. Well, take a look around you. Whole swathes of people in this country, millions and millions, who have decided that it is easier to milk the system and live off tax payers money and contribute as little as they can, whilst extracting as much as they can for themselves. The feckless, the greedy and the entitled. All living around you and all being supported by elected representatives. Our society needs checks and balances to stop these idiots burning down the asylum. I despise them. Every single one of them. Caught with their noses in the trough a few years ago, they got away with it, unpunished. The British public turned a blind eye to it. Well fck you and everyone else who wants a republic. Your welcome to it.

Sounds like you want constitutional reform and a representative democracy...

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

As for the other countries that have our Monarch as theirs, you are very wrong I'm afraid. Opinion is changing rapidly and it's relatively easy for them to change their system, particularly when the Head of State is primarily ceremonial and thousands of miles away.

What the 154 that unanimously voted for King Charles to remain Head of the Commonwealth.

Although I accept your point, if there was the level of feeling you suggest, that wouldn’t have happened.