[Politics] Is it OK to say racist things if you're not racist?

[Seagull58]

Apparently it is. If you apologize later.
And if you apologize later that mean's you're not racist
And if you're not racist we should all move on.

I'll remember that if I ever get the urge to punch someone hard in the face
If I then say 'I'm not a violent person' and apologize, I would expect to be allowed to move on.

mean's?

 

[Comrade Sam]

The Tories seem incapable of calling out racism. They closed ranks to refuse to spot islamophobia, whilst dishing it out. It appears they see Britain's racist community as the last they could get votes from. Labour needs to watch out on taking this path too, as when racism becomes legitimised it's the hard core right that gain.
Also how come these people are racist in private but not racist? I find not being racist is quite simple and not something preserved for the outside world.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I found this latest event interesting in that it revealed the truth of a blatantly nasty racist. The gloves are off. But frighteningly, it’s symptomatic of imho a very sizable demographic who hate Poles, blacks, asians etc. 20 years ago the hate was latent / hidden, now at all levels the racists feel emboldened.

The difficulty …. in a Twatter/Facebook/Dark Web age, how to get the genie back in the bottle?

Surely it’s the complete opposite.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Racism is in everyone at some level. Anyone denying it is deluded or just lying i'm afraid.

Good lord.

 

[Questions]

If you’re not racist then you cannot say racist things. Maybe you can speak the truth about some people who are a different race than yourself and certain people will consider it racist when it really isn’t.
That’s not the case here though is it ?

 

[portlock seagull]

Also how come these people are racist in private but not racist? I find not being racist is quite simple and not something preserved for the outside world.

it is the preserve however of white people only and within this its white men mainly. White straight men who are English and middle aged. And privileged. And right winged. Only these types of people are racist and if the world didn’t have this category of people everything would be daisies and unicorns. Personally I hate racists. Especially Norwegian ones…

 

[Seagull58]

Is it racist to describe someone with a different skin tone as ‘coloured’? Back in the 1960s/70s it was considered offensive to call people of Afro/Caribbean heritage ‘black’. Then it was okay and ‘coloured’ was considered offensive. I’m definitely not racist but confused as to which description is acceptable for any particular ethnic group. Thoughts?

It varies by culture/country. In South Africa, admittedly a unique case, the words black, white and coloured are used all the time without offence being taken. Coloured in that context means, specifically, mixed race as in mixed black/white parentage (or with an Indian parent). In contrast, he Afrikaans race are often described in derogatory terms as "boers" or, my personal favourite, "bloody dutchmen".

 

[cheshunt seagull]

The Tories seem incapable of calling out racism. They closed ranks to refuse to spot islamophobia, whilst dishing it out. It appears they see Britain's racist community as the last they could get votes from. Labour needs to watch out on taking this path too, as when racism becomes legitimised it's the hard core right that gain.
Also how come these people are racist in private but not racist? I find not being racist is quite simple and not something preserved for the outside world.

They don't want to lose the racist, and the 'I'm not racist but...' vote to Reform. There are things being said by people associated with party of government that would lead to disciplinary action in many workplaces. This is a very dangerous place to be as the underlying message is that these views are acceptable.

 

[rippleman]

Just learnt (from PMQs) that Hester had been given PPE contracts worth hundreds of millions. So a £10m donation was a pretty good return. Particularly with a gong thrown in.

Sunak persisting with the "he's apologised so we need to move on" line. No suggestion they will give the money back. I'm watching PMQs on catch-up but hopefully the Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington will be called.

ETA; Diane Abbott was up and down like a jack-in-the-box but the Speaker refused to call her. He is an incompetent disgrace. He needs to be moved on.

 

[Seagull58]

I am happy that these types are being smoked out.

Yes, lickspittles make weasel defences ('He's not a racist'). And some daft-arse phoned R5 this morning to say that her dad used to say 'you should be shot' because he was in the army and it was just an expression and there are more important things going on in the world and we should move on.

But fewer and fewer people think like this. And yes, racism and sexism should be smoked out.

And in my view things are improving, despite 'noises off'.

Things have improved enormously since the 70's and 80's, as evidenced by UK comedy. Love thy Neighbour, The Comedians, the one set in a language school for black, South Asian and oriental stereotypes. I have seen clips from thos programs on social media in recent years and it's astonishing what they were like. One clip from Love they Neighbour showed the lead whiteguy going into the local shop, which had been acquired by a South Asian. Whilst racially abusing the shop owner he also managed to discuss his black Neighbour with liberal use of "sambo", "coon" and other offensive racial stereotypes. We've come a fair way in the last 40 years or so but it's still there in the shadows.

 

[Eeyore]

I read his full comments. If he thinks that Diane Abbott make him want to hate black women does he think that Jeremy Corbyn makes him want to hate white men ? It is a very racist comment. I've often found myself defending folk I'm not keen on because of the desire to make issues about not much and to elevate it to a new level. But the bloke clearly said something really stupid or has issues.

I don't think they should hand the money back. I being fair about that. They would be disadvantaging themselves on behalf of someone else's actions. But they shouldn't be taking from him from this point on.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

mean's?

whoop's

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If you’re not racist then you cannot say racist things. Maybe you can speak the truth about some people who are a different race than yourself and certain people will consider it racist when it really isn’t.
That’s not the case here though is it ?

No.

 

[A1X]

Is it really Sunak’s place to say we should accept Hester’s apology? Isn’t that a decision solely for Diane Abbott to take?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Time for us all to move on from this thread, as clearly we are not the type of voters The Tories are looking to keep at the ballot box.

Anyway they can't refund the sizable donation, as they need it to bribe those horrible boat people to go to Rwanda on a voluntary basis.

If only that bribe were paid from tory party funds.

Sadly it will be paid from the exchequer. In other words the tax payer. You and me.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is it really Sunak’s place to say we should accept Hester’s apology? Isn’t that a decision solely for Diane Abbott to take?

Precisely.

Sunk has taken entitlement to a new level of, er, entitlement.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think the bigger question here is how political parties are funded and what influence that gives. Did anyone know how much this man was giving the conservatives before this or had heard of him? He's a silly man who said a silly thing about a silly woman. If he hadn't said this would anyone have cared about his £10M? What he said has become a distraction from a bigger problem which is opaque in most political parties.

The bigger question? Bigger than racism? Bigger than hundreds of millions of pounds in HMG contracts being awarded in return for a ten million pound political donation?

And you think that nobody would have noticed the graft had the racism hadn't come to light? Maybe you're right.

However if you think "He's a silly man who said a silly thing about a silly woman" then I'm going to call you silly.

Which in this context, as defined by you, means racist ****

 

[Seagull58]

Precisely. Genuine contrition should be respected and those willing to engage should be supported.

I recall Ron Atkinson making a 'learning about racism' TV programme after his on air 'gaffe' (racist rant), but he simply couldn't get his head around why his world view was wrong. His TV career somewhat stuttered after that. Probably for the best.

But, apparently, he couldn't be a racist because he picked "the three degrees" for West Brom. He is/was an example of somebody brought up in a racist environment and seemingly oblivious to the fact.
When Obama was elected president and his inauguration was being shown on tV (with Jesse Jackson in tears in the audience) my late mum (a dear, sweet lady in her late 70's who volunteered at her local parish church and would never have considered herself to be racist inthe slightest) commented to me "they're getting a bit uppity, aren't they?". I asked her if she meant "the blacks" and was there any reason why a black man shouldn't be president. She reflected for a few moments (I could almost see the light going on in her head) and then said "I suppose that's a bit racist, isn't it?". I could see in her a realisation that she had been indoctrinated to think in that way (us v them, white v black) since the 60's when the Windrush generation arrived.
That sounds like an unlikely story but it happened exactly as I have described and shows that people can be unknowingly racist but also can become aware of this and act upon it .

 

[chip]

Is it really Sunak’s place to say we should accept Hester’s apology? Isn’t that a decision solely for Diane Abbott to take?

The Diane abbot who has her own racism problem. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65365978

These people, Abbot and tory donor, suck the life out of meaningful politics. I kind of agree with you though.

 

[el punal]

Like with all issues in conversations, take the time to avoid acting on assumptions. With respect to 'colour', why call someone anything?

I can imagine a situation where you are chatting with a black person about Ian Wright, and they haven't heard of Ian Wright, and you then might start worrying whether you should say 'you know, the black ex footballer on the telly' or 'the coloured (etc.)

Except . . . if the black person you were talking to doesn't know who Ian write is, pontificating about Wright's 'colour' won't clarify the issue, will it?

So the need to invoke 'colour' or ethnicity or sexual orientation doesn't in fact often exist.
Julian Clary. The tall elegant and arch comedian who used to perform with fanny the dog? Or the gay comedian. Which description is the more recognizable? More to the point, which 'identifier' do you feel the need to reach for first?

I have tried an interesting exercise of selecting a description that does not reach for what I might have reached for first back in the 1960s. Former Palace cup finalist who went on to be an Arsenal legend and then a TV pundit with occasional appearances on MOTD. Glasses.
Sinister labour spin doctor who declared he is 'not a quitter' when he became Hartlepool MP.
Labour MP who lost the whip after downgrading anti-gypsy prejudice as not as serious as anti-black prejudice

If you are in a genuine quandary, why not just think a bit more before you open your gob? It' isn't rocket science

(Coloured became a rather twee eye-roll-inducing term many years ago. The actor Cumberbach was moved to apologize after using the term some years ago. Things move on. That's the way of things).

To me it is all rocket science as I have been corrected by my daughters numerous times on countless occasions. The way forward, therefore, as you have rightly pointed out, is that I’m going to keep my gob firmly shut. That’ll put a spanner in the works of Team Correction!