Is failure to win Saturday the end for Steve McClaren?...

[Les Biehn]

I think the point is that teams like Italy are very good at making the opposition play at their pace. You watch teams like Italy, Brazil, Argentina etc and they play international football in the same way they play league football. But when England play we feel we have to play 'the international way' instead of playing the game to which we are suited. If we played fast frenetic football (and forced the opposition to do the same) we would do much better at international level. But instead we try to play slow possession football to which our players are not accustomed. Our best performances of recent years (Argentina, Germany) have been when we have been playing fast flowing football. Part of the problem is, of course, that if you play this way against the Italians or whoever, there is a fear that they will keep the ball for ages and beat you. But the aim has to be to make them play out of their comfort zone, not change our tactics to suit their preferred style of play.

Top post of the day. Well said that man.

 

[Knotty]

I think McLaren has to have the balls to pick either Gerard OR Lampard, not both.... fast flowing oposition calls for Gerard, down and dirty footers calls for lampard....make a choice McLaren - don't be a sheep and put em both in...

Completely agree with that.

For me, Lamps and Gerrard just do not fit in the same side, despite being quality for their clubs. This has been obvious for a long time and well before the World Cup. In my opinion, this was the main reason we did not go further in Germany.

Sven should have taken the bold step and dropped one of them (Lamps, probably) giving us Cole, Hargreaves, Gerrard and Beckham.

McLaren had to make his mark on the job by dropping Becks (wrongly in my view), so he replaced him with Gerrard on the right. It didn't work - Lennon should have replaced Becks, with Lamps demoted to the bench.

 

[Icy Gull]

I'd just like to be entertained by England, I'm way past caring about qualifying for European or World Cups because we are always shit when we get there anyway ( well 95% of the time at least).

Every game with England is about "getting a result" and it's just plain painful. I really no longer care whether I watch them or not unless it's against a big team. Ultimate fair weather fan alert

In answer to the original question I doubt McClaren will get the sack unless the fans do a "McGhee" on him, however shite we are.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'd just like to be entertained by England, I'm way past caring about qualifying for European or World Cups because we are always shit when we get there anyway ( well 95% of the time at least).

Every game with England is about "getting a result" and it's just plain painful. I really no longer care whether I watch them or not unless it's against a big team. Ultimate fair weather fan alert

In answer to the original question I doubt McClaren will get the sack unless the fans do a "McGhee" on him, however shite we are.

Where you happy when Brighton Won Div 2 under Taylor?

 

[Silent Bob]

But wasn't most of the Italian team that won the world cup Italy based?

I think the overseas thing is a load of crap. It about encouraging our young players to think about the game tactically and inprove them technically.

We have to many players who can't adapt and run around like thickos and to many players who can't retain simple possession.

Well the first thing and the second are related aren't they, watch a typical Premiership game in comparison to Serie A or La Liga - the technical level in the "best league in the world" is way below that in Italy or Spain. It is something that needs to be addressed from grassroots up.

 

[Les Biehn]

Well the first thing and the second are related aren't they, watch a typical Premiership game in comparison to Serie A or La Liga - the technical level in the "best league in the world" is way below that in Italy or Spain. It is something that needs to be addressed from grassroots up.

Is that not my point?

 

[Silent Bob]

I don't think the "golden generation" thing is a myth. Look at the performances of some of our players for their club sides compared to for England:

TERRY - colossal for Chelsea, average for England.
LAMPARD - very very good week in week out, scores goals for fun for Chelsea. For England - anonymous, can't score for toffee.
GERRARD - Brilliant for Liverpool. Has single-handedly won them the FA Cup, The Champions League, numerous other games. For England - woefully incosistent and a shadow of himself.

Name one player (with the possible exception of Rooney) who plays as well for England as he does for his club side!!?!?!?!?!?!?

If players are performing excellently week in week out for their club side, but poorly for England then surely the blame must be taken by the manager.....

Look at the systems they play in for their clubs: Terry has Makalele always in front of his back two, protecting his lack of pace. Lampard has freedom to play with Makalele behind him and often Essien too.
Gerrard is allowed a virtual free role for Liverpool with Alonso dictating the play behind him and Sissoko (and in the past Hamman - no coincidence how much better were in Istanbul in the second half when he came on) doing the destructive work.

Most of the time for England Gerrard and Lampard have been together in the centre of a 4-4-2.
It is so ridiculously obvious why this doesn't work that it boggles the mind that people who get paid so much to manage and coach England don't realise it.

Is that not my point?

Possibly, but having more English players playing abroad wouldn't be bollocks, it would help in the short term at least.

 

[Icy Gull]

Where you happy when Brighton Won Div 2 under Taylor?

We just don't agree on this. Anything Brighton achieve with their current set up is something to be grateful for. Two Championships and a promotion were fantastic. But we are the poor relations of the football league.


England have the players and the set up to impress, they seldom do and I can't relate to 100k a week footballers being so bloody clueless and frustrating to watch with a succesion of managers who don't play to our strengths. That is something Taylor did to perfection as Albion manager.

What I guess it boils down to is that the Albion are a passion, England is an interest if it suits me.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We just don't agree on this. Anything Brighton achieve with their current set up is something to be grateful for. Two Championships and a promotion were fantastic. But we are the poor relations of the football league.


England have the players and the set up to impress, they seldom do and I can't relate to 100k a week footballers being so bloody clueless and frustrating to watch with a succesion of managers who don't play to our strengths. That is something Taylor did to perfection as Albion manager.

What I guess it boils down to is that the Albion are a passion, England is an interest if it suits me.

I never have really cared about England and even less so now.

I think I started to laugh when they lost in Germany.

 

[Les Biehn]

Possibly, but having more English players playing abroad wouldn't be bollocks, it would help in the short term at least.

I just question how much it would help and whether they would adapt that well.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I am one of those crazy believers in English players moving abroad for a season or two and finding themselves mysteriously educated beyond the dreams of vast Cheshire mansions, the lonely, monotonous echoes that fill their halls, most often their own hollow cries informing glittery walls and 18ft tv screens of their cost and most recent volume reached, and dogfights betwixt hounds with unbreakable jaws and gold-studded gums.
For any to have read a book and not been ridiculed, or to have become involved in something untold and passionate, would make them maybe care about what they do, and deliver a smug surety to their opulent chops as they play.

 

[Les Biehn]

I would like to see more English players go abroad (and don't understand why they don't) but I'm just not sure what a hughe difference it will make to the England team.

Look at McManascouse, Ince, Owen, Beckham and Woodgate. Didn't make a difference to their performances or the England team.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I would like to see more English players go abroad (and don't understand why they don't) but I'm just not sure what a hughe difference it will make to the England team.

Look at McManascouse, Ince, Owen, Beckham and Woodgate. Didn't make a difference to their performances or the England team.

I think it did for Beckham.
Owen didnt really play and was only there for a season

 

[Les Biehn]

I think it did for Beckham.
Owen didnt really play and was only there for a season

What difference did it make to Beckham as an international player?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Became an all round better player

 

[Silent Bob]

Beckham got worse!

If he had gone to a proper team he might have improved.

 

[Icy Gull]

Beckham got worse!

If he had gone to a proper team he might have improved.

Would Ferguson have let him go if he hadn't already peaked? Never the same after the Deportivo foul that broke his meta whatsit.

 

[Les Biehn]

Became an all round better player

Really? I must have missed that. Still ran around like a headless chicken for England as far as I could tell.

Still we have Gerrard to do that now.

 

[Meade's Ball]

And didn't Platt become a better player in travel? I personally think he was a bit rubbish before and after, but he learnt to understand the strengths of his game more.

 

[Hannibal smith]

I think it did for Beckham.
Owen didnt really play and was only there for a season

It made Beckham worse. Compare him in 2004 strolling up the touch line like he was walking his dog compared to his all action performance against Greece in 2002 when he was playing for Man Yoo.

On the broader point England were awful in the last world cup. We beat Ecuador, Paraguay and T&T with no more than 2 goals scored in a match against, in some cases, part time defences. We drew against an average Swedish team and went out on Pens to Portugal who were comfortably the worst of the last 4 teams left in. It is surely re-writing history to suggest Sven was a good manager who got the best out of the team. His was mediocre. Steve 3-5-2 Mclaren is worse.

What was wrong with Martin O’Neil?