[Politics] Is democracy in crisis?

[Herr Tubthumper]

Democracy cannot survive in an era of social media and AI.

…..and diminishing critical thinking.

 

[LamieRobertson]

The earth used to be in the ice age

The planet has always continued to warm up

We just cry about it more now

I’ve just made a bid on a cave ..I’ve already bought a set of paints/brushes and a bow n arrow

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The earth used to be in the ice age

The planet has always continued to warm up

We just cry about it more now

it hasn’t. The earth has had at least 5 ice ages. It’s this type of stupidity that has got us to where we are now. An off the cuff comment which is factually wrong. FFS

 

[Beanstalk]

The earth used to be in the ice age

The planet has always continued to warm up

We just cry about it more now

Christ alive...

Imagine calling the almost unanimous consensus of scientists and experts on human caused global warming something people "just cry about" more now.

Anthropogenic climate change is accepted as fact almost universally now.

 

[chickens]

Yes. It feels to me that standards have dropped immeasurably in both British and American politics.

Either that, or modern communications have laid bare a lot of subterfuge that could perhaps have been hidden away in a pre-social media era. For example, resignations of honour have become increasingly rare from all sides of each house, and on both sides of the pond. This perhaps being fed by the “never explain, never apologise” mentality.

If I might make a suggestion, don’t allow politics to rule your mood or your life. Politics is important, but not as important as politicians would have you believe.

See post #9507 on the US Election thread (sorry I don’t know how to link to a specific post between threads) particularly the final paragraph.

While politics shapes the framework of our lives, politics doesn’t define us. It’s friends, family, possibly pets and the weather, plus our attitude to others and resilience that determine who we are.

 

[el punal]

Dunno. Ask someone who lives in 'The Democratic People's Republic of Korea'! They seem to like their leader - never been voted out yet!

Can’t fault him, he even executed a load of his toadies when it rained too much. Just as well Michael Fish didn’t put an appearance in downtown Pyongyang.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It seems to me democracy can be bought more easily now by the likes of Murdoch and Musk.

 

[chickens]

It seems to me democracy can be bought more easily now by the likes of Murdoch and Musk.

Agree. We allow too much to accumulate in the hands of too few, and yet it would require global agreement to enact meaningful maximum wealth laws. It will never happen.

 

[raymondo]

I'm leaving party politics and my personal opinions aside when I post this, but it seems as though on either side of the Atlantic there is a widening gap between what politicians say in their election campaigning, and what they deliver when in power.

There was a time when you knew what Tory and Labour, Republican and Democrat stood for. They maintained core principles, but now those have become blurred and inconsistent.

We are told the US electorate cared most about the economy so elected Trump, rejecting some pretty good numbers in the context of the G20 re growth, unemployment, interest rates coming down. US voters believe Trump, yet if we take Trump at his word we know tariffs, lower taxes and plans for mass deportations will all be inflationary and interest rates will have to rise as a result. This will make things worse, not better, for the average US citizen.

He won't end the war in Ukraine or the Israel - Arab conflict in a matter of days, he won't end inflation, just like he didn't build a walls and make the Mexicans pay for it.

Similarly, Boris did not "Get Brexit Done" or "Take Back Control", Cameron stayed quiet in the 2010 campaign then immediately foisted austerity upon us, Lib Dems promised an end to tuition fees but did a 180, Labour stayed deliberately quiet in the 2024 campaign, then borrowed shitloads of cash and foisted huge NI increases on employers and higher tuition fees on the students that just voted for them. This disconnect between words and actions goes across the political spectrum.

We also seem to get every incoming government blaming the previous government, thus excusing all sorts of draconian action immediately they seize power.

And we just know Trump is going to get away without a custodial sentence despite all of his various crimes and misdemeanours, in the same way we know the Johnson government will get away with wasting billions and billions on dodgy Covid contracts, many of which enriched his party friends and associates.

And at the end of all this voters lose trust. Without trust what have you got? Who do you believe, and what basis have you got to really believe anything that they say?

Let's vote on it...oh wait!

 

[Weststander]

…..and diminishing critical thinking.

including minority uni pressure groups shutting down varied views eg Kathleen Stock at Sussex.

 

[raymondo]

Wait for climate to real take hold and it will.

1.5c of warming announced yesterday for the first time.

The global south is heading north as climate change created by rich countries takes hold.

Cue the wannabe fascists who say it doesn't exist, don't want to act and seems these grifters have all the answers lining their own pockets in the process

Yep, we're in trouble and I'm afraid its of our own making.

And the autocrats (current guys) will do nothing to help that.

 

[Pavilionaire]

No - I'm agreeing with you that not keeping promises erodes democracy and the democratic process. But changing your mind when you find out the true cost of something is a bit different than telling blatant lies like Johnson / Trump.

Blair in 1997, Cameron in 2010 and Starmer in 2024 have all employed the ultra-cautious "Ming Vase" strategy to getting re-elected after a lengthy period out of power, with the last two especially light on manifesto detail.

The difference this time around is that now Labour have revealed their hand in the Budget, because there is bad stuff that wasn't in the manifesto they've lost goodwill, trust and expended political capital, so now their lead over the Tories has decreased from 10% to 1% in less than 4 months. Labour are now on 28%, they were on 45% six months ago, while the combined Tory / Reform vote is polling at 46%.

All it would take is the Tories to reach out to Farage and you then have a Trump-style scenario unfolding before our eyes. Even before their election drubbing, Farage told the BBC: "I think if you ask Tory party members right now they'd vote for me to be leader and not Rishi Sunak."

 

[Machiavelli]

I see election manifestoes as nothing more than a wish list. Believe it all at your peril.
I only get upset if the manifesto states something in particular which either the party knew could not be achieved or does not yet know enough to make such promises. I am afraid I would put the labour party tax and spend promises in this year's election manifesto into this category.

Well, I think it's the other way round. There weren't that many tax and spend promises in Labour's manifesto and, what were there, were costed. What they've done in the budget is to raise employers NICs in the budget which wasn't in the manifesto, and increased spending on the NHS, which also wasn't in the manifesto.

 

[Machiavelli]

Its got nothing to do with the internet. Left is getting more middle class and right more working class. Working class wont put up with all the toxic insults aimed at them and will throw back. That is one reason they went for trump.

The left needs to totally de weaponize their language.

Do you know what, I think you're on to something here with some of these points. And I don't normally think that, let alone post it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Do you know what, I think you're on to something here with some of these points. And I don't normally think that, let alone post it.

Cant say I agree with it all, but its a good post.

 

[Zeberdi]

I don’t care how anyone dresses it up - Carville was right “it’s the economy stupid”.

It always has been.

Difference now is gaps between rich and poor is getting wider - so more and more people in liberal democracies are voting with their pockets just to survive.

People can’t afford the luxury of political ideals and altruistic aspirations if they are struggling to feed their kids or can’t afford to get them through university or are out of work - they are just going to vote for the Party that has convinced them (with either lies or truth it doesn’t matter) more than any other, that their bank balances will be healthier if they vote for them rather than their opponents.

Maybe I’m in a really negative head space after a year of seeing extremist far right parties gaining footholds in mainstream politics in the West. I just don’t care anymore frankly - If the largest Westernised Country can vote in a leader like Trump, not withstanding his personal unsuitability, but because they couldn’t even be ar&ed to familiarise themselves with Project 25 and his sinister agenda before voting then I can’t be bothered either.

If we on this Country can willingly give political power to a far right leader out of gullibility or ignorance, who’s bought his access into politics and rubs shoulders with other far right leaders across the globe, then I don’t care any more about that either.

I have been fighting my entire life since my late teens for equality, civil rights and the environment - that’s nearly half a century of pouring all my spare energy into campaigning, fundraising and getting involved with NGOs and local politics. I spend my working days even now working with data than can help us understand the impacts of habitat destruction and climate change - yet the worst polluters on the Planet elect a leader who will yet again withdraw from Global climate treaties, is a climate change denier and who wants to destroy large swathes of the Arctic for oil drilling - who is all about and only about increasing wealth.

I feel I am now watching us throwing it all away and sleepwalking into climate catastrophe and a world order dominated by neo-facists and autocratic governments who are treating their citizens as stepping stones for personal power grabbing - with a global cabal of multi-billionaires pulling their strings while they remain hidden in the shadows.

Democracy isn’t ’in crisis’ - it’s on life support.

 

[nicko31]

Yes. It feels to me that standards have dropped immeasurably in both British and American politics.

Either that, or modern communications have laid bare a lot of subterfuge that could perhaps have been hidden away in a pre-social media era. For example, resignations of honour have become increasingly rare from all sides of each house, and on both sides of the pond. This perhaps being fed by the “never explain, never apologise” mentality.

If I might make a suggestion, don’t allow politics to rule your mood or your life. Politics is important, but not as important as politicians would have you believe.

See post #9507 on the US Election thread (sorry I don’t know how to link to a specific post between threads) particularly the final paragraph.

While politics shapes the framework of our lives, politics doesn’t define us. It’s friends, family, possibly pets and the weather, plus our attitude to others and resilience that determine who we are.

And what team you support !!

 

[Giraffe]

“I'm leaving party politics and my personal opinions aside when I post this” says the opening line and then goes on to to use examples of Trump and Boris and not mention the lies told by Biden and Starmer. Interesting.

 

[sblue]

*Wins latest election*
"Democracy works !"

*Loses latest election*
"Democracy is under attack !"

 

[chickens]

And what team you support !!

Quite right. Talk about me missing an open goal.