[Politics] Is democracy in crisis?

[Weststander]

The earth used to be in the ice age

The planet has always continued to warm up

We just cry about it more now

Not in this post 1850 short timeframe, with 100m's people living just above sea level. Add the sea of plastic killing fauna in the oceans and working its way through food-chains including us! Vast numbers of people are now on the move to less hot climes.

 

[Bodian]

Forever tuition fees, we're just not used to coalition governments as how they work

That was more like not keeping a promise than outright lying. He apologised later and basically said that he hadn't realised it would be so unaffordable. And of course, he wasn't actually in power.

 

[Crawley Dingo]

Its got nothing to do with the internet. Left is getting more middle class and right more working class. Working class wont put up with all the toxic insults aimed at them and will throw back. That is one reason they went for trump.

The left needs to totally de weaponize their language.

 

[jcdenton08]

That was more like not keeping a promise than outright lying.

Oh come on. That’s semantics. Tories could argue the Brexit numbers weren’t a lie either, they just didn’t keep their promise. This is double standards of the worst kind.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Democracy requires an informed electorate forming their views from even handed, balanced facts. It's increasingly at odds with the reality of the 21st century unfortunately.

 

[Weststander]

Classic NSC .... immediately reverting to UK navel gazing.

More interested in British brickbat party politics and their little culture wars, than man created climate change, genocide in Ukraine, genocide in China, man destroying the planet, Trump to open up wilderness to oil companies.

 

[Bodian]

Its got nothing to do with the internet. Left is getting more middle class and right more working class. Working class wont put up with all the toxic insults aimed at them and will throw back. That is one reason they went for trump.

The left needs to totally de weaponize their language.

Fewer toxic insults you say??

The left need to de weaponize their language you say??

Jest? jester, Clown. Go f*** yourself.

F off.

I refer you to my original response leftwing scum. Biden said it.

There is nothing wrong with objecting to equity, its communism so just suck it up commies.

 

[WATFORD zero]

During his campaign he said he wouldn’t get into bed with the Tories. He did.

His main, constantly repeated number one policy promise was to freeze tuition fees - he didn’t. He grabbed power, then tripled them.

This betrayal to the people who got him into power (the student vote) not only led to a Tory majority at the next possible opportunity, and led to Lib Dem’s worst ever electoral performance, but also directly cost me personally more money than any government ever has or ever will. He lied.

He got a whiff of power, and showed his true colours.

See my post above on what happens in coalition Governments.

But I don't think it really compares to

Lying repeatedly about Parties during COVID (the independent report of which said 'The former prime minister had lied to MPs on an “unprecedented” scale).
Lying to the Queen about Parliament
Lying about the £350 Million to the NHS
Lying about no Border between Britain and NI
Lying about staying in the single market

And he had a long history prior

Lying about who was responsible for Hillsborough
Lying about extra marital affairs
Lying about various articles for which he was sacked

I could go on, and on, and on

 

[Bodian]

Oh come on. That’s semantics. Tories could argue the Brexit numbers weren’t a lie either, they just didn’t keep their promise. This is double standards of the worst kind.

No - I'm agreeing with you that not keeping promises erodes democracy and the democratic process. But changing your mind when you find out the true cost of something is a bit different than telling blatant lies like Johnson / Trump.

 

[jcdenton08]

See my post above on what happens in coalition Governments.

But I don't think it really compares to

Lying repeatedly about Parties during COVID (the independent report of which said 'The former prime minister had lied to MPs on an “unprecedented” scale).
Lying to the Queen about Parliament
Lying about the £350 Million to the NHS
Lying about no Border between Britain and NI
Lying about staying in the single market

And he had a long history prior

Lying about who was responsible for Hillsborough
Lying about extra marital affairs
Lying about various articles for which he was sacked

I could go on, and on, and on

Respectfully, you haven’t actually addressed any of the points in my post, and just repeated what you said again.

Clegg had a choice. He lied. And was punished for lying.

 

[Me Atome]

I see election manifestoes as nothing more than a wish list. Believe it all at your peril.
I only get upset if the manifesto states something in particular which either the party knew could not be achieved or does not yet know enough to make such promises. I am afraid I would put the labour party tax and spend promises in this year's election manifesto into this category.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Respectfully, you haven’t actually addressed any of the points in my post, and just repeated what you said again.

Clegg had a choice. He lied. And was punished for lying.

I'm afraid that if you think Clegg failing to get a LibDem manifesto pledge through as the very junior partner in a coalition is remotely comparable to Johnsons many years of self-serving blatant lies, we're probably not going to find much common ground on this.

 

[nicko31]

Nonsense. Clegg chose the Tories over Labour and made a deal which didn’t include the caveat about his primary policy - student loans. Labour/Miliband have subsequently said they were willing to work with Clegg and backed the student loan caveat.

Additionally, many Tories have since come out and said they can’t believe how little resistance the Libs put up to “counter the extremes” when in coalition government and they were considered a soft touch.

The Lib Dems got quite a few things they wanted. It was either no power or share power as a junior partner and accept you can't have it all your own way.

If you're pragmatic you take the latter

 

[Crawley Dingo]

Fewer toxic insults you say??

The left need to de weaponize their language you say??

Well yes, I'm being straight up with my abuse and was in response to an a derogatory post and an all nighter so got caught off guard.

Point still stands.

 

[nicko31]

Democracy requires an informed electorate forming their views from even handed, balanced facts. It's increasingly at odds with the reality of the 21st century unfortunately.

The US binned its Fairness Doctorine back in 1987, Fox News, polarisation, echo chambers and here we are

 

[ManOfSussex]

The US binned its Fairness Doctorine back in 1987, Fox News, polarisation, echo chambers and here we are

I read about that last week - one of Reagan's biggest errors.

 

[beorhthelm]

i suppose when there are so many complaints about the outcome of elections, widely held views that the electorate are wrong in their choices, it's fair to say there is a crisis with democracy.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Yes. All the while politicians break their promises, fail to take action, prevent or try to cover up scandals (Grenfell, Hillsborough, Post Office, Infected blood etc), pander to the super rich, fail to tax global corporations properly, fail to prevent massive economic meltdowns and then do nothing to the people that caused them etc etc, then of course people are going to end up angry.
Most people just want things to be reasonably fair, have access to similar opportunities as others, want everyone to pay their way and get access to services when they need them. When that doesn't happen then people will look for alternative answers.
Plus, when a government is elected in a landslide when they only get 20% of the electorate voting for them then yes, democracy is broken.

 

[Rdodge30]

That was the Lib Dems manifesto if they returned a majority Government which they didn't. As you rightly point out, some don't seem to understand that if you're the junior party in a coalition you can't actually implement your manifesto. All you can do is try and counter the extremes of the major parties manifesto and get some minor wins

If I remember correctly… and it all seems a bit vague to be fair… Brown was hunkered down in number 10 - some sort of “nobody voted me in here and I’m not leaving “?? Cameron and Clegg were thrashing out a deal and the one policy Clegg (bizarrely) clung to was a vote on proportional representation - which clearly wouldn’t pass the house. I remember wondering why on earth he didn’t stand his ground on tuition fees because that was his key (only?) manifesto commitment that any of us remember

 

[amexer]

Lets face it at each election there will be people on either side who will vote for who they have always voted for whatever is in manifestos. After that it will be the number of people voting for or against present government not for opposition.