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[Albion] I’m now pro VAR - disgraceful officiating
- Thread starter Guinness Boy
- Start date
Anyone flaming Massey for that offside decision is being a bit harsh IMO - in real time it 'looked' offside, and it was at pace and very marginal. Aguero's on Saturday was far worse a decision. Both support the need for VAR though.
tigertim68
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2012
- 2,617
I have seen her line down at the Amex , and my problem with her is she never keeps up with play , which is why she gets so many off side decisions wrong , like yesterday
[MENTION=236]Papa Lazarou[/MENTION] and I discussed this yesterday afternoon.
If VAR was in place yesterday, she should have kept her flag down and allow play to continue and be reviewed, if required. Would she though?
Expecting assistants to behave differently based on whether VAR is in operation or not, feels far from ideal in itself.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
That's what happened in the World Cup. Assistants were told not to flag offsides.
You have completely missed my point. If the penalty hadn't been given, City might have tried even harder and scored several goals. Or they might not have of course. No one will ever know. But to take a game that's finished and say "those two goals should have been scratched out so Swansea would have won 2-1" is nonsense. They game wouldn't have played out in the same way.
Just like yesterday. If Murray had scored the first penalty in the shootout, the next five Albion penalty-takers would not definitely have scored. Different pressures (or lack of pressure so maybe complacency) so (possibly) different outcomes. That's my point.
There's an article by Keith Hackett in todays Torygraph
Some excerpts:-
......VAR clearly isn’t the solution to all our problems if used incorrectly, as was the case at Molineux. The issue here was a sliding challenge by Manchester United centre-half Victor Lindelof on Wolves’ Diogo Jota as he broke away down the wing. It was a poor tackle and Martin Atkinson, a very experienced referee, deemed it worthy of a red card. That decision was downgraded to a yellow card by the official behind the TV screen, who on this occasion was Kavanagh - a man who had to referee his own game at the Den a little more than 15 hours later.
I think Martin got the call right, and I cannot see how Kavanagh overruled him. Law 12 states a red card must be shown “when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and/or endangers the safety of an opponent”, which I thought Lindelof did. We must also remember that VAR should only be used to overturn “clear and obvious errors” and I do not see how Martin’s decision was in any way a clear and obvious error.
On our game Hackett says
There is no doubt that Brighton would have had real cause for complaint if they had not gone through at the Den. I felt there were clear fouls on defenders in the build-up to both Millwall goals, with the first one on Glenn Murray particularly obvious. Referee Chris Kavanagh and his assistants should have spotted them but that is what VAR is for - to ensure human errors like that do not lead to game-changing incidents.
Brighton then got back on level terms and thought they had won the game in the last moments of extra-time when Jurgen Locadia swept home Martin Montoya’s pull-back, only for the latter to be incorrectly ruled offside by assistant referee Sian Massey-Ellis. It was another poor error and one that VAR would have overturned instantly.
Credit to Kavanagh for seeing the horrendous challenge by Shane Ferguson on Lewis Dunk and correctly sending the Millwall player off, but this was a bad day at the office where VAR would undoubtedly have proved useful.
Kavanagh had quite a weekend. Needs to go for refresher training fairly urgently.
Some excerpts:-
......VAR clearly isn’t the solution to all our problems if used incorrectly, as was the case at Molineux. The issue here was a sliding challenge by Manchester United centre-half Victor Lindelof on Wolves’ Diogo Jota as he broke away down the wing. It was a poor tackle and Martin Atkinson, a very experienced referee, deemed it worthy of a red card. That decision was downgraded to a yellow card by the official behind the TV screen, who on this occasion was Kavanagh - a man who had to referee his own game at the Den a little more than 15 hours later.
I think Martin got the call right, and I cannot see how Kavanagh overruled him. Law 12 states a red card must be shown “when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and/or endangers the safety of an opponent”, which I thought Lindelof did. We must also remember that VAR should only be used to overturn “clear and obvious errors” and I do not see how Martin’s decision was in any way a clear and obvious error.
On our game Hackett says
There is no doubt that Brighton would have had real cause for complaint if they had not gone through at the Den. I felt there were clear fouls on defenders in the build-up to both Millwall goals, with the first one on Glenn Murray particularly obvious. Referee Chris Kavanagh and his assistants should have spotted them but that is what VAR is for - to ensure human errors like that do not lead to game-changing incidents.
Brighton then got back on level terms and thought they had won the game in the last moments of extra-time when Jurgen Locadia swept home Martin Montoya’s pull-back, only for the latter to be incorrectly ruled offside by assistant referee Sian Massey-Ellis. It was another poor error and one that VAR would have overturned instantly.
Credit to Kavanagh for seeing the horrendous challenge by Shane Ferguson on Lewis Dunk and correctly sending the Millwall player off, but this was a bad day at the office where VAR would undoubtedly have proved useful.
Kavanagh had quite a weekend. Needs to go for refresher training fairly urgently.
Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 9,114
To be honest I thought it was offside in real time too. Just goes to show how well timed Montoya's run was. I actually don't blame the Lino it was at pace. That VAR was in use for two of the quarter finals but not the others is just ridiculous though. The Swansea decisions were a disgrace and Millwall have benefited from multiple bad decisions in two games. You have VAR for all or none at all.
You have an excuse: you were behind the goal and in a dreadful position to make a judgement. The lino was in line, or is supposed to be, and from the replay I saw I thought her positioning looked good.
Not to flag for MARGINAL offsides.
I know - that's why I said "If VAR was in place yesterday, she should have kept her flag down and allow play to continue and be reviewed, if required"
It strikes me as a bit much for assistants to vary their actions based on remembering whether VAR is in operation or not.
That should work in our favour for the semis then... oh wait, we're playing a top 6 side ... darn it
Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 9,114
Fair point. You can't help but wonder if the crowd played a part in some these decisions. There were several 'fans' who were continually approached the barrier to hurl abuse. As you say the Lino was in a good position
Agreed. She made a mistake but how can any human look accurately along the line at the same time as looking 40 degrees to their left to see when the pass was made? It's nano seconds, it's not possible with one set of eyes. VAR ffs, FA: disgraceful that it wasn't used in all quarters: nearly made a mockery of the result. Well done Hughton for being polite about those decisions...he would have been fuming.
For the Locadia 'goal'; yesterday she was absolutely bang in line with play......stop this at 4.26 for the replay
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47512116
You can only begin to imagine the abuse a Millwall crowd was giving her.
Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 9,114
Exactly, and it would have been close to two hours of abuse.
She was, but in general, the previous poster is correct. Our seats toward the north end of ESL give an ideal viewpoint to see how linos are getting on. There are plenty getting berated by half of the stadium for CORRECT offside calls, but SM-E really does get a lot wrong, and genuinely isn't good at keeping up with play.
For sure. It will have been disgusting, aggressive and relentless. That was unfortunately inevitable though, and part of the job description, to be able to focus on her job. Not to say she didn't - after all she only made ONE real error (in this game).
mreprice
Active member
Can someone put up a clip of the “offside goal”? I was watching on a stream that kept freezing. I also missed the first Millwall penalty miss and thought it had been scored
My stream froze the instant the pass was played, then started again. So I knew for certain it wasn't offside when it went in.
I think they have been doing that in the Champions League and it doesn't cause too many problems. But it gets the fans howling every time about the 'late flag'.