Im going to be the first to say it....

[turienzo's lovechild]

christ people


it appears that old kinky has fallen into the trap, where you post a load of shit, resulting in most people not valueing your opinions in the future, however valuable they may be


kinky made a good point, which was argued well, i don't personally agree with, but there was no need for the flamage that followed


and btw....mcghee is doing a great job, the 10 points thing was us punching way above our weight, and now we've been found out....not his fault, its due to our lack of quality which stems from a lack of finances

 

[London Irish]

Time for Mcghee to go if Brighton go down?

I was in full support of him but now he has single messed up just about everything he could have over past 6 games.

A couple of weeks ago you were coming out with the same old stuff about Knight and Nicolas, players out of postion, 10pts clear, etc, etc - and I asked you point blank - were you calling for McGhee out?

Your response was this -

Now, if two weeks ago "McGhee out" was an idea you regarded as on a par with shooting yourself, what's changed since then?

We've had an unlucky loss against Coventry due to a phantom penalty. This is a game you didn't see.

We've lost 3-0 away to one of the form teams in the league when we were down to 10 men. This is another game you didn't see.

We can of course debate your footballing points sensibly. But come on, we've done that ENDLESSLY.

You can't seem to accept that a striker with 3 goals in 35 games can't be automatic first choice. A player like Nicolas who can't pass to his forward line can't be automatic first choice. You go on about 7 games undefeated playing 3-5-2 - I gave you the information that this stat was wrong. Wolves and QPR were not 3-5-2 and we only beat Watford after reverting to 4-4-2! You go on about players playing out of position (ignoring that they did so during this great 7-match run) when such selections have won us a series of fantastic wins against Leicester, Preston, West Ham, Leeds, Watford, Sunderland and Millwall and a double over the Gills.

All the football points you raise have been debating endlessly, and in my view, falsified. Yet you now change your position on McGhee after two games, neither of which you've seen.

It's not logical, Kinky

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

Re: Re: Im going to be the first to say it....

You can't seem to accept that a striker with 3 goals in 35 games

4 goals. Which makes a world of difference.

 

[London Irish]

I was trying to be kind to Leon by not mentioning his penalties record this season

Chippy on Saturday for the pens?

 

[Deleted User X18H]

I am looking at London Borough's but cannot seem to find one called 'Hassocks' anyone help.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I am looking at London Borough's but cannot seem to find one called 'Hassocks' anyone help.

What the f*** are you talking about?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Spurs fans generally know JACK about football but KG could have a point here. Tactically I think McGhee has lost the plot in recent weeks.

Remember when we were playing 5-3-2? Yes that's right, during the christmas period and through most of January, We were winning games then. Since then we have been playing 4-4-2 and people have been aplying out of postion, most notably Knight who has been stuck out on the LEFT wing where is threat to goal has been substantially reduced. The defence has come under a lot more pressure than it was due the the midfield being way too lightweight, Stauntons goal at Coventry shows this quite well.
We have also lost all ability to counter attack meaning sides can pen us in as our 'strikers' are too slow off the mark and are easily caught by opposition defenders. In summary the team seems an absolute shambles and until we get a nippy striker back up front we're screwed. Let's hope McGhee gets Jakey up front so that we can start giving the opposition something to think about.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Spurs fans generally know JACK about football but KG could have a point here. Tactically I think McGhee has lost the plot in recent weeks.

Remember when we were playing 5-3-2? Yes that's right, during the christmas period and through most of January, We were winning games then. Since then we have been playing 4-4-2 and people have been aplying out of postion, most notably Knight who has been stuck out on the LEFT wing where is threat to goal has been substantially reduced. The defence has come under a lot more pressure than it was due the the midfield being way too lightweight, Stauntons goal at Coventry shows this quite well.
We have also lost all ability to counter attack meaning sides can pen us in as our 'strikers' are too slow off the mark and are easily caught by opposition defenders. In summary the team seems an absolute shambles and until we get a nippy striker back up front we're screwed. Let's hope McGhee gets Jakey up front so that we can start giving the opposition something to think about.

Cue standard reply about the 5-3-2, that we lost to Cardiff playing that way and beat Millwall in the last minute playing 4-4-2, how Oatway should be in the England squad, McCammon should be Pope and we are all know nothing and should not dare say anything....

 

[CHAPPERS]

You go on about players playing out of position (ignoring that they did so during this great 7-match run)

Who did? Virgo? He's been playing up top all season, that's a given but Knight was playing as a striker in this game where he was able to pull players out of position and allow Virgo more space and the midfield to get involved.

 

[London Irish]

And what's the standard response, UB? There isn't one, is there? The facts about playing 3-5-2 during the 7-game run are wrong. Does anyone want to disprove that?

 

[Uncle Buck]

And what't the standard response? There isn't one, is there? The facts about playing 3-5-2 during the 7-game run are wrong. Does anyone want to disprove that?

The thing during that 7 game run was as a rule we started with 5-3-2, OK a couple of games we did not finish with it. But as a rule it meant people were playing in position, Virgo was even in defence as a rule, Knight was up front and he scored from open play in at least 2 of these games. Hart seemed to give him the protection he needed up front and when McCammon came on for short spells, such as Brammal Lane he seemed to be half decent. Since we have gone back to 4-4-2, people are once again out of position, we are shipping goals and oh we have lost 6 on the spin. OK we could not legislate for our goalkeeper being out for the season and our best defender doing his knee in, but still playing 4-4-2 we keep losing and if we carry on losing we will go down and I for one do not want to go into the hell hole that is the now League One.

 

[London Irish]

The thing during that 7 game run was as a rule we started with 5-3-2, OK a couple of games we did not finish with it. But as a rule it meant people were playing in position, Virgo was even in defence as a rule, Knight was up front and he scored from open play in at least 2 of these games. Hart seemed to give him the protection he needed up front and when McCammon came on for short spells, such as Brammal Lane he seemed to be half decent. Since we have gone back to 4-4-2, people are once again out of position, we are shipping goals and oh we have lost 6 on the spin. OK we could not legislate for our goalkeeper being out for the season and our best defender doing his knee in, but still playing 4-4-2 we keep losing and if we carry on losing we will go down and I for one do not want to go into the hell hole that is the now League One.

I haven't checked all the games during this 7-match run, but we did not play 3-5-2 at Wolves (weird diamond shape) and at QPR (4-4-2) - two very good away results. We only won the game against Watford because of McGhee's tactical flexibility in reverting to a 4-4-2.

This insistence on scapegoating McGhee for his flexibility of formations is too simplistic and not borne out by the facts.

We've won games because McGhee has been willing to change formations due to the varying strengths of the opposition and the particular players that we've had available for selection.

The tactical rigidity you advocate of always playing 3-5-2 is nonsense and would tie the hands of any thinking manager.

You correctly refer to the reasons why we've lost games, suspensions, injuries, some players not at peak form, and throw in opponents hitting form and the appalling decisions from refs.

These are the real reasons for our recent defeats.

Totemic, mystical belief in the powers of one tactical system is an intellectual-style scapegoat to be sure, and a novel change from the usual players who get picked on, but it's a scapegoat nonetheless.

 

[sydney]

so who (not that i'm in agreement) do you suggest we target for our new manager............?

 

[Uncle Buck]

Totemic, mystical belief in the powers of one tactical system is an intellectual-style scapegoat to be sure, and a novel change from the usual players who get picked on, but it's a scapegoat nonetheless.

Even by your standards, that is one of the most bizarre things that you have ever posted.

It is not tactical ridgity, it is simply employing the best system for the players we own. We currently do not have any natural wingers, but do have work horse midfielders and still a number of centre backs. It would seem obvious to play 3 of those centre backs in a 3 man centre defence and then 3 of those central midfielders in a 3 man midfield. If you play a 4 man midfield on Saturday, it is likely that Hammond and Nicolas are going to be asked to take the right and left slots, but their natural game will be to cut inside, leaving our full backs exposed and a player like Keith Gillespie could have a field day against Harding. Surely but having 3 centre backs and pushing the full backs up, it will mean the full backs have a bit of cover.

Also playing Butters and Dolan as the 2 centre backs means that we are lacking pace in the middle of defence (Hinsh's pace generally helped), so by chucking El-Abd in with these 2 will mean we have a bit of pace there and might take some of the threat that Connelly brings out of the game.

Who plays up front, well there I have no idea.

 

[London Irish]

Who did? Virgo? He's been playing up top all season, that's a given but Knight was playing as a striker in this game where he was able to pull players out of position and allow Virgo more space and the midfield to get involved.

So you have a big beef about players playing out of position yet you think it's fine to do that with Virgs. Damn right. Where the hell would we be without his 8 goals? Down with Rotherham.

Other players who've done well out of position are Paul Reid at right back/ right wing back. Harding has also alternated between defence and midfield and has been if anything more effective in his non-usual role (these days) in midfield. OGH was also alternated effectively between midfield and the front line. Hinsh had some useful stints in midfield earlier in the season when we still had Cullip.

The fact is your big beef about players playing out of position comes down to JUST ONE GUY - Leon Knight.

And you just refuse to accept the fact that Leon has underperformed in his usual strikers' role, where he still played the VAST MAJORITY of his 35 games this season, despite his recent stints out wide. You ignore his poor goals record and his poor goals-to-chances ratio. You ignore how Leon helped win the crucial Sunderland and Millwall games with his work out on the flanks.

We can have a disagreement over whether Leon is best played up front or out wide, that's fine. But don't go overboard by then condemning all of McGhee's very brave and fine juggling of the small and limited squad of players that he has had at his disposal this season.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

Shut the hell up. MM is doing the best he can with the squad he got. If you got biased opinions then go and support another club. You wanker.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Shut the hell up. MM is doing the best he can with the squad he got. If you got biased opinions then go and support another club. You wanker.

Who is that aimed at?

 

[Basil Fawlty]

Who is that aimed at?

Kinkygoebels. I'm sorry i didnt put the quote in. I forgot.

 

[London Irish]

Even by your standards, that is one of the most bizarre things that you have ever posted.

It is not tactical ridgity, it is simply employing the best system for the players we own. We currently do not have any natural wingers, but do have work horse midfielders and still a number of centre backs. It would seem obvious to play 3 of those centre backs in a 3 man centre defence and then 3 of those central midfielders in a 3 man midfield. If you play a 4 man midfield on Saturday, it is likely that Hammond and Nicolas are going to be asked to take the right and left slots, but their natural game will be to cut inside, leaving our full backs exposed and a player like Keith Gillespie could have a field day against Harding. Surely but having 3 centre backs and pushing the full backs up, it will mean the full backs have a bit of cover.

Also playing Butters and Dolan as the 2 centre backs means that we are lacking pace in the middle of defence (Hinsh's pace generally helped), so by chucking El-Abd in with these 2 will mean we have a bit of pace there and might take some of the threat that Connelly brings out of the game.

Who plays up front, well there I have no idea.

But what the hell makes you think we'll play 4-4-2 on Saturday? McGhee doesn't fall into the trap you constantly fall into, in believing that one set formation is right all the time.

All season, McGhee has alternated between up to 5 or 6 different tactical shapes on the pitch.

You ignore the sucess we've had with those other formations and just fixate on those games we've won with 3-5-2.

If I was to fall into the same simplistic trap as you, I would bollock on endlessly about how our best performance of the system when we beat the now runaway leaders of this division was acheived with 4-4-2.

But I'm not going to be that FOOLISH. Rigid tactical proscriptions are for those who have a little knowledge about football. But as the phrase goes, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

McGhee will look at his team for Saturday without being weighed down by these naive beliefs. He will look at Leicester, their players and their usual shape, and then he will look at the players he currently has at his disposal (not many) and will then decide what is the appropriate shape to employ. This is THINKING football management, not daft simplistic answers from the stands.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Kinkygoebels. I'm sorry i didnt put the quote in. I forgot.

Well I do think your earlier point is a bit much, telling somebody that shows an opinion (I know he does go on the wind up a lot), that is not in line with the gimps, masses and righteous to f*** off and support another club.