[Politics] If there were a General Election tomorrow poll

[Insel affe]

But surely you must want to at least try a change form the current crop of thieves?

They all line their own pockets when in power, we no longer look back on the Blair government through rose coloured spectacles.
Labour are my preferred choice yes, but I feel they are not that really inspiring or dynamic a choice to make me think there is something about them, they are leading the polls by default really, as in the tories have been in for too long, and been caught with their hand in the till so to speak.
Labour will revert to type once in power and be just as inept I fear, where are their dynamic policies that will change the NHS, increase pay and conditions for teachers etc, etc.....
I see nothing but smoke and mirrors form all.

sorry I am probably wrong, I usually am, so take no notice.

 

[Audax]

So if there were a GE tomorrow, how would you vote ? (Just a bit of fun and all kept anonymous so as not to upset anyone )

Other. As in, Tactical Anti-Tory

 

[The Clamp]

They all line their own pockets when in power, we no longer look back on the Blair government through rose coloured spectacles.
Labour are my preferred choice yes, but I feel they are not that really inspiring or dynamic a choice to make me think there is something about them, they are leading the polls by default really, as in the tories have been in for too long, and been caught with their hand in the till so to speak.
Labour will revert to type once in power and be just as inept I fear, where are their dynamic policies that will change the NHS, increase pay and conditions for teachers etc, etc.....
I see nothing but smoke and mirrors form all.

sorry I am probably wrong, I usually am, so take no notice.

They all line their own pockets when in power, we no longer look back on the Blair government through rose coloured spectacles.
Labour are my preferred choice yes, but I feel they are not that really inspiring or dynamic a choice to make me think there is something about them, they are leading the polls by default really, as in the tories have been in for too long, and been caught with their hand in the till so to speak.
Labour will revert to type once in power and be just as inept I fear, where are their dynamic policies that will change the NHS, increase pay and conditions for teachers etc, etc.....
I see nothing but smoke and mirrors form all.

sorry I am probably wrong, I usually am, so take no notice.

I understand your frustration. And you may well be correct.

For shits and giggles, here is Labours mission statement;

Mission-driven government – The Labour Party

Labour has a long-term plan for Britain, with five missions for national renewal.

labour.org.uk

Now come along Psycho, I’ve got several ditches to fill before the farmer next door gets back from wintering in Ibiza.

 

[goldstone]

I find it hard to believe that there are so many Labour supporters on here who want to lead the country down the road to rack and ruin. Sure, the Conservatives haven't done much recently to deserve re-election, but voting Labour? Come on! The Conservatives have hit bottom and the only way now is probably up. Labour will do the country irreparable harm which it will take the following Conservative government years to fix. Reform will get my vote this year. Best of a poor bunch.

 

[rippleman]

As a socialist I personally don’t feel Labour represent me anymore.
I feel the way Corbyn was thrown under the bus regarding Palestine was disgraceful especially as now (IMO) he’s been proved right.

[I appreciate there is a thread for this so I won’t be arguing my point further on here]

I echo those sentiments entirely.

I have never voted anything other than Labour in a GE but I won't vote for a Labour Party led by Starmer. He is moving the party further and further to the right. His treatment of Corbyn and Abbott is appalling and his refusal to call for a ceasefire in Gaza, shameful.

I have no doubt a policy-less Labour Party will win, and of course I will be happy to see the back of the Tories, but Starmer is not for me.

 

[Insel affe]

For shits and giggles, here is Labours mission statement;

Mission-driven government – The Labour Party

Labour has a long-term plan for Britain, with five missions for national renewal.

labour.org.uk

Ok, just a quick read of that, and the stand out unachievable targets or quite simply absurd are.

• Take tough decisions to restore economic stability and secure our economy. that should be standard practice, nothing to see here.
• Build more homes and help first time buyers with ‘first dibs’ on new homes in their area. Good luck with that and the big housebuilders !! councils have hardly any land left to build their own housing, so your at the housebuilders mercy and they are holding back building because house prices are stagnant at best.
• Create Great British Energy, a new publicly-owned clean power generation company to cut your energy bills and deliver good jobs. - how are they going to pay for this and just what exactly is a good job ?
• Cut your energy bill for good – making families up to £1,400 better off a year. - Right'o
• Create 500,000 new, skilled jobs in the industries of the future, rebuilding the strength of our industrial heartlands. Again Right'o how ?
• Deliver energy security so we’re not dependent on dictators like Putin. Laughable comment and a cheap vote winner because everyone hates Putin.
• Cut waiting times by giving the NHS the staff and technology it needs. How this will cost money
• End the 8am scramble for GP appointments and giving patients a choice of appointments in person or on the phone. laughable
• Improve cancer survival rates and reduce deaths from heart disease and suicide. sound bytes
• Put 13,000 more neighbourhood police and PCSOs on our streets. oh the magic money tree
• Halve violence against women and girls, and tougher sentences for rapists. impossible statement to achieve with good intentions
• Introduce new ‘Respect Orders’, a tough new order with criminal sanctions for antisocial behaviour. Good luck with that one.
• Create a modern childcare system with breakfast clubs in every primary school to give children the best start This kind of already exists
• Make sure there’s a world class teacher in every classroom, recruiting 6,500 new staff, paid for by ending tax breaks for private schools. Actually a good idea, but also condescending to teachers currently doing a world class job.
• Expand apprenticeships and skills training to spread opportunity for all. this is required
• I just see this will cost a lot of money, and where the hell is it all coming from....

 

[Braggfan]

Probably the wrong approach but our current MP has been a great constituency MP, when I had a personal issue on a financial matter she resolved it and even took the time out to ring me herself twice.
Service like that gets my vote.

I actually think that's the best approach. Overall I think we have a severely flawed system, where the parties don't represent us very well. If you can vote for an MP you think will make parliament a better place , then I think that's much better than voting on party lines for someone you don't like or know nothing about.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It’s a tap in for Labour which is depressing. They have been weak in opposition and can’t see them being any good in power.
That the next government will also have a rubbish opposition shows a worrying state of affairs in politics.
If the liberals or a centralist party could come forward I think they would have a fighting chance because people just want good governance

Can you ever remember an opposition that was 'strong'? I can't. You can aftertime it and say that Thatcher and Blair were strong in opposition because they won, but I barely remember anything about them in opposition. You could argue that Wilson and Heath were strong in opposition because they both beat one term governments, but I would argue the nation was flip-flopping in the 60s and 70s.

And I don't think we have a 'worrying state' in politics at all. There is so much scrutiny now with varied and instant media, and in fact the most winging we hear now is that Sunk (by and large, madcap schemes he inherited such as Rwanda notwithstanding) and Starmer are rather centrist, meaning the instability of extremism is on the wane.

Extremism.....yes, we have the likes of Farage, Thick Lizzie and Corbyn. Where actually are they? As far as I can see, nowhere.

The present HMG may seem poor, but when they get back into opposition, give their heads a wobble, re-engage with one-nationsism again, flush out the chancers down the shitter, they'll get back to sensible I'm sure.

 

[chickens]

I’m loving the fact that there are 19 individuals on here who have lived through the last decade and thought “Yup, this is what success looks like, more of the same please.”

 

[jcdenton08]

James McCleary is a good candidate and nothing like Norman Baker. Look at the candidates rather than the labels.

I am not voting Lib Dem. Nothing to do with Norman Baker.

 

[Braggfan]

One thing has occurred to me about this election is that we may never have a vote like this again.

If Labour win, will they make any electoral reform? There seems to be large support across the party to change the voting system, but more hesitancy higher up. Presumably because a Labour win could be with a large majority (sounds a bit like history repeating). But if Labour do win, and do use a large majority to change the voting system to proportional representation, then our political landscape could change drastically.

Firstly, its almost certain that parties on the fringes would get more MPs, so Reform and the Greens could have a bigger presence. But although strong left and right views might be more visible, and possibly represented by 1 or 2 MPs, I would expect centre politics and policies to dominate.

There's a strong probability that future governments would have to form coalitions. In that scenario I would expect the Lib Dems to be much more significant as they'd likely be the king maker in most governments that are formed. Labour and Conservative would be aware of this, and I would expect that means they have to form more centrist polices that appeal to the Lib Dems. In that scenario you'd expect the the extreme left and right sides of the parties to become less powerful.

Obviously Labour might not win, and even if they do they might not change the voting system, but I think electoral reform is certainly something that's possible. And its interesting to consider that this might be the last general election of its kind, and let the mind wander about where that might lead us.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

One thing has occurred to me about this election is that we may never have a vote like this again.

If Labour win, will they make any electoral reform? There seems to be large support across the party to change the voting system, but more hesitancy higher up. Presumably because a Labour win could be with a large majority (sounds a bit like history repeating). But if Labour do win, and do use a large majority to change the voting system to proportional representation, then our political landscape could change drastically.

Firstly, its almost certain that parties on the fringes would get more MPs, so Reform and the Greens could have a bigger presence. But although strong left and right views might be more visible, and possibly represented by 1 or 2 MPs, I would expect centre politics and policies to dominate.

There's a strong probability that future governments would have to form coalitions. In that scenario I would expect the Lib Dems to be much more significant as they'd likely be the king maker in most governments that are formed. Labour and Conservative would be aware of this, and I would expect that means they have to form more centrist polices that appeal to the Lib Dems. In that scenario you'd expect the the extreme left and right sides of the parties to become less powerful.

Obviously Labour might not win, and even if they do they might not change the voting system, but I think electoral reform is certainly something that's possible. And its interesting to consider that this might be the last general election of its kind, and let the mind wander about where that might lead us.

Unfortunately, Labour has already ruled out proportional representation. The previous referendum was worded badly in enabling second choice, and the advantages of PR as outlined by you weren't publicised enough.
The vast majority of western countries have PR as a voting system.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ok, just a quick read of that, and the stand out unachievable targets or quite simply absurd are. You would rather they have no aspirations? If they don't deliver then boot them out after one term. Our tory chums keep on and on about 'no Labour policies'. This is why....instant pile in from scoffers the second they publish anything.

• Take tough decisions to restore economic stability and secure our economy. that should be standard practice, nothing to see here.
• Build more homes and help first time buyers with ‘first dibs’ on new homes in their area. Good luck with that and the big housebuilders !! councils have hardly any land left to build their own housing, so your at the housebuilders mercy and they are holding back building because house prices are stagnant at best. Faversham is set to double in size with new home building
• Create Great British Energy, a new publicly-owned clean power generation company to cut your energy bills and deliver good jobs. - how are they going to pay for this and just what exactly is a good job ?
• Cut your energy bill for good – making families up to £1,400 better off a year. - Right'o
• Create 500,000 new, skilled jobs in the industries of the future, rebuilding the strength of our industrial heartlands. Again Right'o how ?
• Deliver energy security so we’re not dependent on dictators like Putin. Laughable comment and a cheap vote winner because everyone hates Putin.
• Cut waiting times by giving the NHS the staff and technology it needs. How this will cost money
• End the 8am scramble for GP appointments and giving patients a choice of appointments in person or on the phone. laughable
• Improve cancer survival rates and reduce deaths from heart disease and suicide. sound bytes
• Put 13,000 more neighbourhood police and PCSOs on our streets. oh the magic money tree
• Halve violence against women and girls, and tougher sentences for rapists. impossible statement to achieve with good intentions
• Introduce new ‘Respect Orders’, a tough new order with criminal sanctions for antisocial behaviour. Good luck with that one.
• Create a modern childcare system with breakfast clubs in every primary school to give children the best start This kind of already exists
• Make sure there’s a world class teacher in every classroom, recruiting 6,500 new staff, paid for by ending tax breaks for private schools. Actually a good idea, but also condescending to teachers currently doing a world class job.
• Expand apprenticeships and skills training to spread opportunity for all. this is required
• I just see this will cost a lot of money, and where the hell is it all coming from....

 

[Braggfan]

Unfortunately, Labour has already ruled out proportional representation. The previous referendum was worded badly in enabling second choice, and the advantages of PR as outlined by you weren't publicised enough.
The vast majority of western countries have PR as a voting system.

Have they actually ruled it out? I know there's widespread support in the party, that has translated higher up to "we'd open to a conversation about it" (maybe that's just my naivety/optimism thinking they might).
There's also part of me that wonders if they are keeping quiet on it before an election, as they don't want to rock the boat. Although I also realise the same stupidity and short sightedness that occurred in 1997 could also be in play.

 

[Stato]

Weird that some have such a strong reaction against KS. He’s selling to the right because that’s what Labour does to get elected. The test will be when he’s in power. I never disliked JC and would like to see a lot of his proposals introduced. However, we don’t live in a vacuum and good parts of the electorate wouldn’t touch Labour unless it performatively rejected Corbynism. He was treated unfairly, but that’s politics.

Contrary to a post above. I am looking at Blair’s time through rose tinted goggles. Even if Starmer doesn’t campaign to the right and govern to the left, he will be trying to govern for the many not the few. Difficult as the few seem to have all the money he’ll be needing, but I completely reject the ‘all as bad as each other’ myth. There’s still a lot of decent people in the Labour party. The Tories, since Johnson’s purge, are a self serving cult with few if any redeeming qualities.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Have they actually ruled it out? I know there's widespread support in the party, that has translated higher up to "we'd open to a conversation about it" (maybe that's just my naivety/optimism thinking they might).
There's also part of me that wonders if they are keeping quiet on it before an election, as they don't want to rock the boat. Although I also realise the same stupidity and short sightedness that occurred in 1997 could also be in play.

I should have said SKS rather than Labour.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/keir-starmer-labour-proportional-representation-b2329451.html

Keir Starmer defies call for changes to first past the post voting system

The Labour leader said electoral reform was not a priority and refused to make it one of the party’s election manifesto pledges

www.theguardian.com

 

[atomised]

Ok, just a quick read of that, and the stand out unachievable targets or quite simply absurd are.

• Take tough decisions to restore economic stability and secure our economy. that should be standard practice, nothing to see here.
• Build more homes and help first time buyers with ‘first dibs’ on new homes in their area. Good luck with that and the big housebuilders !! councils have hardly any land left to build their own housing, so your at the housebuilders mercy and they are holding back building because house prices are stagnant at best.
• Create Great British Energy, a new publicly-owned clean power generation company to cut your energy bills and deliver good jobs. - how are they going to pay for this and just what exactly is a good job ?
• Cut your energy bill for good – making families up to £1,400 better off a year. - Right'o
• Create 500,000 new, skilled jobs in the industries of the future, rebuilding the strength of our industrial heartlands. Again Right'o how ?
• Deliver energy security so we’re not dependent on dictators like Putin. Laughable comment and a cheap vote winner because everyone hates Putin.
• Cut waiting times by giving the NHS the staff and technology it needs. How this will cost money
• End the 8am scramble for GP appointments and giving patients a choice of appointments in person or on the phone. laughable
• Improve cancer survival rates and reduce deaths from heart disease and suicide. sound bytes
• Put 13,000 more neighbourhood police and PCSOs on our streets. oh the magic money tree
• Halve violence against women and girls, and tougher sentences for rapists. impossible statement to achieve with good intentions
• Introduce new ‘Respect Orders’, a tough new order with criminal sanctions for antisocial behaviour. Good luck with that one.
• Create a modern childcare system with breakfast clubs in every primary school to give children the best start This kind of already exists
• Make sure there’s a world class teacher in every classroom, recruiting 6,500 new staff, paid for by ending tax breaks for private schools. Actually a good idea, but also condescending to teachers currently doing a world class job.
• Expand apprenticeships and skills training to spread opportunity for all. this is required
• I just see this will cost a lot of money, and where the hell is it all coming from....

I had this discussion with a Labour supporter on x. I said I wanted to see costings to enable me to make a decision. they responded with I just need to trust them, they don't need to cost anything til they're in power

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

One thing has occurred to me about this election is that we may never have a vote like this again.

If Labour win, will they make any electoral reform? There seems to be large support across the party to change the voting system, but more hesitancy higher up. Presumably because a Labour win could be with a large majority (sounds a bit like history repeating). But if Labour do win, and do use a large majority to change the voting system to proportional representation, then our political landscape could change drastically.

Firstly, its almost certain that parties on the fringes would get more MPs, so Reform and the Greens could have a bigger presence. But although strong left and right views might be more visible, and possibly represented by 1 or 2 MPs, I would expect centre politics and policies to dominate.

There's a strong probability that future governments would have to form coalitions. In that scenario I would expect the Lib Dems to be much more significant as they'd likely be the king maker in most governments that are formed. Labour and Conservative would be aware of this, and I would expect that means they have to form more centrist polices that appeal to the Lib Dems. In that scenario you'd expect the the extreme left and right sides of the parties to become less powerful.

Obviously Labour might not win, and even if they do they might not change the voting system, but I think electoral reform is certainly something that's possible. And its interesting to consider that this might be the last general election of its kind, and let the mind wander about where that might lead us.

Then leave all alone and let centre politics dominate.

I am bemused by the idea that the only reason the country is in a mess is because the Greens and the Liberals don't have a say in cabinet. There is a post above that rips a new one into Labour's aspirations. It seems that people are not interested in a party that wants to try to make things better, and want to change the system instead. So how would our prospects improve if Labour get in and simply hand over government to the liberals and Greens? Madness.

Politics is the art of the possible. People cannot demand major change then scoff when it is offered, or expect the party that wins a landslide (because people voted for them) to hand over power to a party of decades of failure (Liberals) and a superannuated pressure group with no idea how to do anything other than gardening and recycling (greens)?

Oh, and change the system so that **** Farage gets a seat in parliament and is on Newsnight, Question time and the Today programme every f***ing week because he's an MP? No thanks.

We are about to see the tories booted out. That's good enough for me for now. I'll hold Starmer to account after 18 months, keeping in mind there is an awful lot of mess to fix, and the chattering classes will have spent the entire 18 months screaming at him (and that has already started)

 

[Official Old Man]

Same as last time, I'll spoil my paper because I could never vote Labour.
I'm Conservative but didn't trust Boris or the party last election so spoilt my paper then.
Why spoil it, why not just not vote? Because I have a right to vote and feel everyone should vote. Spoiling the paper shows my feelings but registers as a vote.

 

[MJsGhost]

Only one option in Lewes really - LibDem to oust the waste of oxygen that is Maria Caulfield.