I don't mind Nigel Farage,but this !!!

[Nibble]

I see Permanently Outraged of Haywards Heath is wetting his panties again.

 

[cunning fergus]

Some interesting figures came to hand at the weekend. The UK pharma and chemicals industry, an industry which benefits hugely from EU membership, has exports worth 53bn of which 56% is to the eurozone.

Spoken like a modern day Cecil Rhodes, it's all you Tories are interested in...........money, money, money.

So long as these big industrialists and all their monetarist supporters get their way, nothing else matters does it..........democracy, sovereignty and socialism can all just take a running jump.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Spoken like a modern day Cecil Rhodes, it's all you Tories are interested in...........money, money, money.

So long as these big industrialists and all their monetarist supporters get their way, nothing else matters does it..........democracy, sovereignty and socialism can all just take a running jump.

I've said before. The biggest single issue affecting the UK is the economy.The rest is details to me at the moment.

And please. I have been called most things in my life but what really offends me is calling me a tory. If your intent is to offend then fine, you win. If it isnt please call me something else; I am not a tory.

 

[Nibble]

Spoken like a modern day Cecil Rhodes, it's all you Tories are interested in...........money, money, money.

So long as these big industrialists and all their monetarist supporters get their way, nothing else matters does it..........democracy, sovereignty and socialism can all just take a running jump.

I like belonging to the EU. It gives us something else to be rather than "Her Majesty's Subjects" plus I like foreign people (except for these deformed, Muslim, Sib-Shagging ghouls Bushy has discovered living in his recycling box in Haywards Heath) so it's a win/win for me.

 

[daveinprague]

UKIP Shipping forecast.

https://soundcloud.com/nicholas-pegg/ukip-shipping-forecast

 

[cunning fergus]

I've said before. The biggest single issue affecting the UK is the economy.The rest is details to me at the moment.

And please. I have been called most things in my life but what really offends me is calling me a tory. If your intent is to offend then fine, you win. If it isnt please call me something else; I am not a tory.

We have had plenty of exchanges recently where you could not be clearer, the commercial aspects of the EU are more important to you than any others (as you have re-confirmed above).

Frankly, anyone who places anything (such as EU economic performance) above the interests of the British working class in my view is a tory. This is not a “detail” issue either; all the evidence indicates that thanks to the EU’s requirement for free labour markets, the British working class are now fighting harder to keep their jobs, are on worse conditions and have less pay. That is why after selling them down the river during their 13 years in power Labour (the supposed voice of the working class) are now fighting tough on immigration issues.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/12/labour-tougher-eu-benefit-restrictions
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/uk-workers-unprotected-migration-labour-cooper
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/ed-miliband-loophole-cheap-foreign-labour

That is not to say you are wrong about the commercial benefits of the EU, you are quite right that there are genuine benefits of open trade within the EU framework, however these benefits will primarily be enjoyed by the uber-capitalists sitting in privileged positions in big business or in the Governments or the ever expanding political and technical bureaucracy, they will not be enjoyed by ordinary British workers.

The problem is that that even in this relatively simple paradigm of open trade as a mechanism to deliver economic performance, the EU has got a woeful track record. There are many countries that have joined the EU (and euro) that are now struggling and having to deal with their economic problems via internal devaluation. This means countries like Greece, Ireland, Cyprus, Portugal, Italy and Spain are all cutting wages and jobs because they cannot devalue their currency in order to be competitive. And in those countries whose wages are the very first to be cut?

Your support for an undemocratic structure that is sponsored by big business and penalises British (and other EU) workers all singles you out as a tory; it’s not my intention to slap you with a label that does not apply……………

http://www.instituteofopinion.com/2012/09/euroscepticism-and-the-left/

 

[cunning fergus]

I like belonging to the EU. It gives us something else to be rather than "Her Majesty's Subjects" plus I like foreign people (except for these deformed, Muslim, Sib-Shagging ghouls Bushy has discovered living in his recycling box in Haywards Heath) so it's a win/win for me.

But that's fine you are honest about your ideology and that is why the prospect of being integrated into the EU massages your cosmopolitan g-spot. Its not like I dont get it, its refereshing to have candour in these discussions.

I have an ideology too, that is that the UK should be a prosporous sovereign country that makes its own laws via democratically elected representatives. How times have changed that saying those words should seem to be a radical act.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We have had plenty of exchanges recently where you could not be clearer, the commercial aspects of the EU are more important to you than any others (as you have re-confirmed above).

Frankly, anyone who places anything (such as EU economic performance) above the interests of the British working class in my view is a tory. This is not a “detail” issue either; all the evidence indicates that thanks to the EU’s requirement for free labour markets, the British working class are now fighting harder to keep their jobs, are on worse conditions and have less pay. That is why after selling them down the river during their 13 years in power Labour (the supposed voice of the working class) are now fighting tough on immigration issues.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/12/labour-tougher-eu-benefit-restrictions
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/uk-workers-unprotected-migration-labour-cooper
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/ed-miliband-loophole-cheap-foreign-labour

That is not to say you are wrong about the commercial benefits of the EU, you are quite right that there are genuine benefits of open trade within the EU framework, however these benefits will primarily be enjoyed by the uber-capitalists sitting in privileged positions in big business or in the Governments or the ever expanding political and technical bureaucracy, they will not be enjoyed by ordinary British workers.

The problem is that that even in this relatively simple paradigm of open trade as a mechanism to deliver economic performance, the EU has got a woeful track record. There are many countries that have joined the EU (and euro) that are now struggling and having to deal with their economic problems via internal devaluation. This means countries like Greece, Ireland, Cyprus, Portugal, Italy and Spain are all cutting wages and jobs because they cannot devalue their currency in order to be competitive. And in those countries whose wages are the very first to be cut?

Your support for an undemocratic structure that is sponsored by big business and penalises British (and other EU) workers all singles you out as a tory; it’s not my intention to slap you with a label that does not apply……………

http://www.instituteofopinion.com/2012/09/euroscepticism-and-the-left/

You are making some huge judgements and generalisations here, on both the EU and me. Anyone who knows me knows I have working class values and beliefs at the core of my ideas. And economic improvement and EU directives in my opinion benefit the working person. In your opinon my views might be wrong but I can assure you I do not overlook ordinary workers.

 

[Nibble]

I don't give a shit who rocks up as long as it's no more Australians. I have met them everywhere in the world and not one of them has done anything to dispel my image of The Australian as anything other than a loud-mouthed, racist, bigoted, freeloading, sponging, never buy their round, sloppy titted, irritant. If you have ever been on London transport on Australia day you will understand.

 

[CheeseRolls]

We have had plenty of exchanges recently where you could not be clearer, the commercial aspects of the EU are more important to you than any others (as you have re-confirmed above).

Frankly, anyone who places anything (such as EU economic performance) above the interests of the British working class in my view is a tory. This is not a “detail” issue either; all the evidence indicates that thanks to the EU’s requirement for free labour markets, the British working class are now fighting harder to keep their jobs, are on worse conditions and have less pay. That is why after selling them down the river during their 13 years in power Labour (the supposed voice of the working class) are now fighting tough on immigration issues.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/12/labour-tougher-eu-benefit-restrictions
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/uk-workers-unprotected-migration-labour-cooper
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/ed-miliband-loophole-cheap-foreign-labour

That is not to say you are wrong about the commercial benefits of the EU, you are quite right that there are genuine benefits of open trade within the EU framework, however these benefits will primarily be enjoyed by the uber-capitalists sitting in privileged positions in big business or in the Governments or the ever expanding political and technical bureaucracy, they will not be enjoyed by ordinary British workers.

The problem is that that even in this relatively simple paradigm of open trade as a mechanism to deliver economic performance, the EU has got a woeful track record. There are many countries that have joined the EU (and euro) that are now struggling and having to deal with their economic problems via internal devaluation. This means countries like Greece, Ireland, Cyprus, Portugal, Italy and Spain are all cutting wages and jobs because they cannot devalue their currency in order to be competitive. And in those countries whose wages are the very first to be cut?

Your support for an undemocratic structure that is sponsored by big business and penalises British (and other EU) workers all singles you out as a tory; it’s not my intention to slap you with a label that does not apply……………

http://www.instituteofopinion.com/2012/09/euroscepticism-and-the-left/

Can you explain to me how you are linking free trade and currency devaluation here ? I would suggest a single currency is an enabler of free trade, in as much as it promotes transparency, but it is certainly not a pre-requisite.

 

[cunning fergus]

You are making some huge judgements and generalisations here, on both the EU and me. Anyone who knows me knows I have working class values and beliefs at the core of my ideas. And economic improvement and EU directives in my opinion benefit the working person. In your opinon my views might be wrong but I can assure you I do not overlook ordinary workers.

I am not making huge judgements at all, you have been unequivocal in posts on this subject previously that the interests of the British working class hold absolutely no priority to you when compared to other factors, such as the economic performance of the EU. Maybe you think one leads automatically leads to the other, and so you will support an unrestricted labour market in the EU because you think that British workers will actually benefit from that environment.

If that was the case though………………

Are the British working class better off today (than they were with border controls) because of an unrestricted labour market?
Are rents and living expenses lower for the British working class since we had an unrestricted labour market?
Are wages higher for the British working class since we had an unrestricted labour market?
Are there more jobs available to low skilled unemployed British workers since we had an unrestricted labour market?
Are young British people able to easily access employment after leaving school and/or university since we had an unrestricted labour market?

If you can answer yes to any of these questions then maybe I have it wrong.

Bear in mind that the Labour party are now saying they understand that British workers, and particularly the working class, are feeling the squeeze in jobs, wages and cost of living. Now, not everything wrong in the UK is down to unrestricted labour markets but unless you think the basic law of supply and demand does not apply to labour markets then we know the answer.

To be fair to Labour I think they know exactly the kind of damage that can be caused by “unrestricted” markets generally speaking, because when they went for a “light touch” regulatory regime on the financial services markets 10 years ago, we saw what a success that approach was.

But, here we are again blindly handing over the keys to the sweet shop to the capitalists; I am sure this time we can trust big business, the banks, the monetarists, the industrialists and the unelected technocrats making the rules in the EU to act in the interests of the British working class, after all its going so well for workers right across the EU isn’t it……...free market neo Thatcherite tories like you would undoubtedly say……….yes it is.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

The main flaw in your theory is that to win the next election the Tories need more votes than last time. Do you really think they have won more minds and votes over the past 4 years?

Seeing as the economy will, almost certainly be in better shape than it was at the time of the last GE, then it's fairly possible, yes. (See today's news from the IMF)

Don't get me wrong, as someone whose business is 100% export based, a large percentage of which is into the EU, I want us in.

But, it's vital that there are some changes.

 

[cunning fergus]

Can you explain to me how you are linking free trade and currency devaluation here ? I would suggest a single currency is an enabler of free trade, in as much as it promotes transparency, but it is certainly not a pre-requisite.

They are not linked in economic terms I was making two points, however I think there is a link that can be made on the economic outcome for some countries that are in the EU now and more fundamentally the trust the wider european electorate can place in the EU institutions to make the right decisions.

There are evidently benefits to free trade I understand that, however we have had the common market for many years now and yet currently workers wages across the EU are falling at alarming rates, (with the exception of Germany). So there is no apparent drip down to the workers of these benefits of the common market, yet global business demands that the EU integrates more deeply so that workers jobs are protected. The fact that some countries are now having to devalue their economies by cutting wages and jobs is symptomatic of this demand..............there may not be manyeconomic alternatives to Govts in the eurozone but they made the decision to join, but in the end its the workers losing out, not global business.

The EU (through its institutions) are presiding over chaos in economies casued by their own failings, and they have been involved in subversion of democracy in Cyprus, Italy and Greece. You may think that its still worth going "all in" because there maybe benefits for the UK somewhere in the future...............based on the formline so far I cannot see it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am not making huge judgements at all, you have been unequivocal in posts on this subject previously that the interests of the British working class hold absolutely no priority to you when compared to other factors, such as the economic performance of the EU. Maybe you think one leads automatically leads to the other, and so you will support an unrestricted labour market in the EU because you think that British workers will actually benefit from that environment.

If that was the case though………………

Are the British working class better off today (than they were with border controls) because of an unrestricted labour market?
Are rents and living expenses lower for the British working class since we had an unrestricted labour market?
Are wages higher for the British working class since we had an unrestricted labour market?
Are there more jobs available to low skilled unemployed British workers since we had an unrestricted labour market?
Are young British people able to easily access employment after leaving school and/or university since we had an unrestricted labour market?

If you can answer yes to any of these questions then maybe I have it wrong.

Bear in mind that the Labour party are now saying they understand that British workers, and particularly the working class, are feeling the squeeze in jobs, wages and cost of living. Now, not everything wrong in the UK is down to unrestricted labour markets but unless you think the basic law of supply and demand does not apply to labour markets then we know the answer.

To be fair to Labour I think they know exactly the kind of damage that can be caused by “unrestricted” markets generally speaking, because when they went for a “light touch” regulatory regime on the financial services markets 10 years ago, we saw what a success that approach was.

But, here we are again blindly handing over the keys to the sweet shop to the capitalists; I am sure this time we can trust big business, the banks, the monetarists, the industrialists and the unelected technocrats making the rules in the EU to act in the interests of the British working class, after all its going so well for workers right across the EU isn’t it……...free market neo Thatcherite tories like you would undoubtedly say……….yes it is.

If you're ever in the area please drop by and I will share a few beers with you and discuss this. But, I simply do not have the desire to spend my evening addressing all these points. I don't have the energy and further more I cannot keep up with your pace and volume.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Righto. I have no idea what you're on about.

you need to keep up at the back
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

Another one for the sheeple that vote for the 3 main parties.

 

[spring hall convert]

the European elections will be interesting in May...!

They won't be because they are meaningless and no one votes in them. UKIP will probably do well with a protest vote, the majority of whom wouldn't dream of voting for them at a general election.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

They won't be because they are meaningless and no one votes in them. UKIP will probably do well with a protest vote, the majority of whom wouldn't dream of voting for them at a general election.

meaningless to people that accept what's happening with our continuing support to the EU AND HAVE AN I'M ALL RIGHT JACK ATTITUDE
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

They won't be because they are meaningless and no one votes in them. UKIP will probably do well with a protest vote, the majority of whom wouldn't dream of voting for them at a general election.

These soundbites that are thrust upon us like "protest vote". Meaning that the voter will give a party a slap on the wrist and then go back and vote for them next time.
Perhaps some, if not many are not doing it as a "protest vote", perhaps many like myself are just sick and tired of the lies and bullshit from the 3 main parties that have been in power for decades.
Perhaps some are looking at other potential bullshitters who have not had a chance yet.....least potential bullshitters and lyers that actually spout policies that we can relate too and agree with.

 

[Footsoldier]

Everyone knows that the main three parties are full of bullshit - but if voting for UKIP isn't a protest vote, then what is it? Nobody in their right mind would actually want them to win any kind of power at a general election.

I'm sure that UKIP will do well at the European elections though, just as BNP did last time round, not that it makes any difference to anything.

UKIP can't do any worse than the other three that's for sure.