How much is the Referendum Campaign influencing you?

[DavidinSouthampton]

We wouldn't have to pay the membership fee is one of the few arguments/facts (100% accurate) in this entire campaign that we know to be true. As for your follow up points we (the UK) can do whatever we want with it rather than letting the EU spend it. There is no 100% accurate impartial assessment of the costs or benefits of EU membership. There is no 100% accurate impartial assessment of how much better or worse off we would be outside the EU.



Lucky I used our Net contribution - £8.5 Billion then.

That would still be a great over-exaggeration, according to the Chair of the Treasury Select Committee..... Who should know. And he was taking great pains to be neutral.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Massive boost for PM as over 600 economists reject Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/economists-reject-brexit-boost-cameron

Oh, and Micheal Eavis is "in with both feet"

 

[Deleted member 22389]

mass immigration from both the EU and outside the EU for those coming here legally is not sustainable in these numbers.
add in those living and working here illegally along with those living here legally but working illegally puts a 100,000(allegadly) a year onto the total.

carry on like this this system will one day go pop!

we need a unified system for everyone, an extension of current rules enforced on non EU nationals to include EU nationals. This would end discrimination on nationality,make it a fair playing field for everyone wishing to come here whether from Poland or India,allow US to select those coming in.

With this system and outside the EU you have the added bonus of being able to try and vote out a government that polices immigration badly and replacing them

I really dont see why so many people object to having control of our borders.....seems absurd

19 people have been rescued from the English Channel and are now being looked after by UK Border Force.
We will start seeing a lot more of this now as people will take any chance to get here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36407685

What annoys me the most is that I always give to the RNLI. I'm considering whether I should donate any more more money if they are going to be constantly called out to pick people up from the Channel. This is an EU problem so therefore the rescues should be funded by them.

 

[looney]

Massive boost for PM as over 600 economists reject Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/economists-reject-brexit-boost-cameron

Oh, and Micheal Eavis is "in with both feet"

smoke and mirrors, I to would agree with "most likely damage Britain’s growth prospects over the next five years." but still be in favour of leaving.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Massive boost for PM as over 600 economists reject Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/economists-reject-brexit-boost-cameron

Oh, and Micheal Eavis is "in with both feet"

19 people have been rescued from the English Channel and put in the hands of the UK Border Force. More cost to the British Tax Payer. more money for the Immigration lawyers and interpreters and later on to our councils and benefits system.

Who's fault is this? Is this a French problem for letting them cross the channel in the first place, or is this an EU problem and exposes the real problem of an out of control borderless EU.

 

[5ways]

Interesting, I was instinctively an 'in' until the accelerated immigration of the last few years. Simple economics tells me that this big increase in housing demand is having an upwards effect upon rental and property prices and a downward effect on wages. The big winners of EU membership are the rich who already own houses and don't have to compete at the bottom of the employment market. For that reason (and against my instincts) I am voting out for a better future for my children. The debate hasn't affected that decision at all as the future of my family is fundamental to my decision.

Surely it is better for your children if the economy is stronger and bigger which would lead them to a greater ability to buy their own homes? I can't be denied that house prices are very high but a smaller economy shrinking demand is not the answer to the problem - building more houses is.

 

[5ways]

19 people have been rescued from the English Channel and put in the hands of the UK Border Force. More cost to the British Tax Payer. more money for the Immigration lawyers and interpreters and later on to our councils and benefits system.

Who's fault is this? Is this a French problem for letting them cross the channel in the first place, or is this an EU problem and exposes the real problem of an out of control borderless EU.

OK if we leave will the EU remain borderless? Yes. We can't run from this so we need to fight to change it. Are we part of Schengen? No. Will we ever be? No. Can you waltz into the UK? no. The EU allows us to have British border forces on French soil. We are partners and we will only deal with this problem by working together.

 

[yxee]

OK if we leave will the EU remain borderless? Yes. We can't run from this so we need to fight to change it. Are we part of Schengen? No. Will we ever be? No. Can you waltz into the UK? no. The EU allows us to have British border forces on French soil. We are partners and we will only deal with this problem by working together.

Incorrect. British border forces are on French soil as part of a bilateral agreement.

 

[One Love]

For that reason (and against my instincts) I am voting out for a better future for my children.

I had a conversation with my daughter recently as she's reached voting age. She was saying how all of her friends were remainers and she thought that reflected the feelings of young voters today.

She said if older voters are choosing what to vote thinking of their children then they need to vote stay as that's what their children would want.

Her generation are open to multi-cultural societies and diversity much more their parents and especially their grand-parents.

 

[Bakero]

If you were honest you would admit that the REAL power behind the EU is global capitalists, the Commission is merely a handmaiden to their interests.

I know is not a problem for those inners who are unashamed free market Tories like you, Hampster Gull, 5ways etc. because you accept this relationship and seek to vigorously defend it from any criticism.

For genuine socialists, and those with progressive intent we understand clearly that the EU is in the grip of rapacious monetarists, and the political will to prevent economic devastation to the poor is unchecked by the existing legislative framework of the EU. That is a fact Margaret and I can prove why........

http://www.anothereurope.org/vote-i...anis-varoufakis-john-mcdonnell-and-many-more/

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-0154-Remain-activists-rally-for-another-Europe

These inners are campaigning today in London to stay in the EU in order to change it from what it is today. For once we can clearly understand what they consider the faults of the EU to be.......and I wholeheartedly agree with them, or at least in relation to democracy any transparency. I don't think they are serving the vested interests of the British working class, but there you are.

Fact is they want to change the EU from an institution that does secret TTIP negotiations to privatise public services, and to resist austerity on the poor by reckless financiers.......etc. At last, honesty about he EU.

The question is however, can they do this? A vote for in is therefore a jump into the dark that they can.

I would argue, as would have Tony Benn, that now is the time too pull the rug from under the feet of the capitalists, a vote out is the only radical step available, a vote in will sadly be seen as endorsing he status quo.

It's that simple.

Trouble is the British government are fervent supporters of free market capitalism, austerity and TTIP. If anything the EU, for all its faults, provides a bulwark protecting us from our own government. A crazy situation but I think a lot of people feel this way.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

19 people have been rescued from the English Channel and put in the hands of the UK Border Force. More cost to the British Tax Payer. more money for the Immigration lawyers and interpreters and later on to our councils and benefits system.

It's my taxes as well. Who are you to say what my money can and can't be spent on?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Surely it is better for your children if the economy is stronger and bigger which would lead them to a greater ability to buy their own homes? I can't be denied that house prices are very high but a smaller economy shrinking demand is not the answer to the problem - building more houses is.

Certainly, yes. However that debate is not settled either way. I have a degree in economics so am familiar with how economic forecasts are arrived at. They are entirely dependent upon the assumption inputs. Economists in this debate should be presenting us with an array of choices with different outcomes and yet instead they are simply coming out for one side or another. An economic case can be made for further European integration and equally one for further integration with non European economies. My issue with voting Remain is that there will be further downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on housing. Increased housing supply would be an alternative but at the current rate of net immigration this is unsustainable in the long term and would require massive spending on public services which would require some very difficult choices to be made. I don't think that either the Left or the Right are willing to make those choices.

 

[Sorrel]

The campaigns are all based on several combined "what-if" scenarios that all assume the worst (or best) of several options will occur and then base their dire warnings or wonderful predictions on these occurrences. None of them would actually happen.

For example, almost all the dire warnings about Brexit are based on the UK leaving the single market but I can't see how parliament would vote for a resolution that didn't involve staying in the single market - it must around be 80% of the MPs who support staying in the single market and they aren't going to vote to agree anything other than that. The disastrous warnings, the idea of a brilliantly successful UK out of the EU are both just fantasy. Things won't change that much either way of the vote as it is not in anyone's interest for them to change.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I had a conversation with my daughter recently as she's reached voting age. She was saying how all of her friends were remainers and she thought that reflected the feelings of young voters today.

She said if older voters are choosing what to vote thinking of their children then they need to vote stay as that's what their children would want.

Her generation are open to multi-cultural societies and diversity much more their parents and especially their grand-parents.

perhaps, although there are better ways to show support for multiculturalism than integrating further with white Europe. I saw something on the news (sorry I cant remember any figures) that suggested that a lot of ethnic minority votes (young and old) will vote Leave as they feel that unlimited European immigration limits further non European immigration. I have lived abroad in a multicultural society so that isn't really the point. High housing costs and low wages are the issues influencing my decision. OP, I don't think either side of the debate have addressed my concerns at all. The entire debate so far has been irrelevant.

 

[portslade seagull]

Surely it is better for your children if the economy is stronger and bigger which would lead them to a greater ability to buy their own homes? I can't be denied that house prices are very high but a smaller economy shrinking demand is not the answer to the problem - building more houses is.

Why is the EU pumping billions into Greece to stop it failing because if it does fail that is the beginning of the end. It is doomed to failure and will cost us more in the long run than leaving ever would as more failing economies suffer the same fate and the EU implodes

 

[cunning fergus]

Trouble is the British government are fervent supporters of free market capitalism, austerity and TTIP. If anything the EU, for all its faults, provides a bulwark protecting us from our own government. A crazy situation but I think a lot of people feel this way.

But they would be wrong.

The CURRENT Govt is largely committed to free market capitalism, albeit they evidently have internal difficulties with the extent of that commitment. Similarly, if we were honest, so does the Labour Party.

The Blairites are just as committed to free markets as their Tory EU supporting peers, which is why it's so moronic for some to think by voting Labour they are not supporting Tory ideology.

TTIP is a good example, because it has been shrouded in secrecy, the Commission even sought to lock down parts of the negotiation from public scrutiny for 30 years. This is an unelected institution don't forget!

If the Tories (or whatever Governing party) were to do the same in the UK the opposition would have this out in the public eye quicker than you can say Jean Claude Juncker.

Far from acting as a bulwark to protect EU citizens from rampant capitalism, it facilitates and hides it.

The closest I think we have had to this conduct in the UK is what Tony Blair and Labour did in Iraq.

Hopefully he will go to prison soon, no wonder Remain don't want him actively supporting their message.

 

[cunning fergus]

I had a conversation with my daughter recently as she's reached voting age. She was saying how all of her friends were remainers and she thought that reflected the feelings of young voters today.

She said if older voters are choosing what to vote thinking of their children then they need to vote stay as that's what their children would want.

Her generation are open to multi-cultural societies and diversity much more their parents and especially their grand-parents.

About 100 years millions of young people were filled with romantic idealism and higher notions about self and their country.

They were wrong then, they are wrong now.

No doubt young voters WANT a lot of things, but in life someone will have pay, this is typically the older voters.

When they start "paying" then they will understand life is not so romantic.........just like their forebears 100 years ago.

 

[One Love]

About 100 years millions of young people were filled with romantic idealism and higher notions about self and their country.

They were wrong then, they are wrong now.

No doubt young voters WANT a lot of things, but in life someone will have pay, this is typically the older voters.

When they start "paying" then they will understand life is not so romantic.........just like their forebears 100 years ago.

They are wrong to have higher notions about self and country?

Yeah I'll just tell her to give up and expect the worst.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

On the subject of borders ... has anyone noticed the concern that is being expressed in Gibraltar about the threat to the open border with Spain that Brexit poses? I don't know if there is a real prospect of the Spanish government taking up the opportunity to create a real, well enforced boundary between the EU and a British colony, but it certainly seems to be an issue that is troubling Gibraltarians.

I can't see this issue making a difference to the referendum vote but, post-Brexit, I can see things getting sticky as far as the UK's relationship with Spain is concerned.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

No doubt young voters WANT a lot of things, but in life someone will have pay, this is typically the older voters.

As an older voter, I'll express the view that I want to be kept comfortable in my old age, and I'm hoping that young people will be paying for this. My best interests seem to be served by siding with younger people in this referendum. If they want to remain in the EU, that's good enough for me.