How much is the Referendum Campaign influencing you?

[Murray 17]

I will be 62 this year and won't live to see the long term impact of the decision either way, but my kids will.

Your children (and mine) certainly will see the impact. They won't be able to afford to buy a property in the not too distant future. One effect of mass immigration has been to drive up the price of property, which in the SE is crazy.

Unless of course they don't mind living in shared houses, 2 or 3 to a bedroom, as a lot of immigrants from Eastern Europe seem happy to do.

I really fear for this country if Cameron's shameful scaremongering wins the day.

 

[cunning fergus]

Will you ever run out of ways to say exactly the same thing?

(HT waits 5 minutes for more of the same thing plus the personal insult Google translated into German)

Nein.

All the while EU supporting Tories like you continue to advocate the benefits of free markets, the "living" wage for the poor and an unreformed supra national institution in thrall to global capitalism, I will challenge the assertions of the benefits.

It is heartening to see that today all the democratic and capitalist failings of the EU will be laid out in the open by the very people who usually tell us who we benefit from it

It's about time the secrecy and anti democratic nature of the EU is understood by the electorate. I don't agree with everything people like Vakarakis (and others) have to say or do I agree it can change; but his experience of being dictated to be unelected EU technocrats and bankers should be a clarion call to those who have concerns about the motives of the EU.

I know you don't care about this.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I have voted Tory all my life. I would therefore expect to veer towards the Cameron view. But no. Every time he opens his mouth, my estimation of him goes down. In fact, that applies to almost everything he says since they got back in. He really didn't expect to be re-elected and still hasn't worked out why they were. I have lost all respect for him. His Remain arguments have included that if we leave, the cost of gloves will go up and war is more likely. How the f***are we supposed to take that seriously!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm only joking. I actually get my lines from FT editorials.

I can confirm that this is true.

 

[cunning fergus]

I have voted Tory all my life. I would therefore expect to veer towards the Cameron view. But no. Every time he opens his mouth, my estimation of him goes down. In fact, that applies to almost everything he says since they got back in. He really didn't expect to be re-elected and still hasn't worked out why they were. I have lost all respect for him. His Remain arguments have included that if we leave, the cost of gloves will go up and war is more likely. How the f***are we supposed to take that seriously!

Didn't he ask the British public to judge him on reducing migration.......no ifs no buts he said?

We get the leaders we deserve don't we?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Postal voting papers arrived this morning..............3-1 to leave in our household... sadly unable to convince the youngest who has just turned 18 but it's her choice which i respect.

 

[larus]

I give up.

Good idea. I'm not the only person who thinks the structure is flawed. Some people are so blinded the the project that they can't see the reality. Who elected Juncker as president? You know, that guy who negotiated low tax deals with multi-national companies to use Luxembourg as a cheap corporate tax country and screw other countries. Who elected that slime-ball as President? The voters? No. But, you keep believing it's all rosy. Unbelievable.

 

[Soulman]

Good idea. I'm not the only person who thinks the structure is flawed. Some people are so blinded the the project that they can't see the reality. Who elected Juncker as president? You know, that guy who negotiated low tax deals with multi-national companies to use Luxembourg as a cheap corporate tax country and screw other countries. Who elected that slime-ball as President? The voters? No. But, you keep believing it's all rosy. Unbelievable.

Of course HT believes "it's all rosy", he lives in the country that is pulling the strings...... us leaving might affect the Germans, especially as many other countries are waiting to see if it is worth them bailing out as well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Of course HT believes "it's all rosy", he lives in the country that is pulling the strings.

The politics of envy?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of interest how confident are the Brexiteers feeling?

 

[Soulman]

The politics of envy?

No the politics of a bloke that tells us in the UK what is best, from a country that is doing its best to run the EU.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No the politics of a bloke that tells us in the UK what is best, from a country that is doing its best to run the EU.

Do you want a go on the steering wheel?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Out of interest how confident are the Brexiteers feeling?

As confident as you are that Labour will win the next election? Actually not that delusional lets just say more in hope than expectation.

 

[portslade seagull]

Out of interest how confident are the Brexiteers feeling?

More confident after Camerons rather large two own goals which have knocked all these we win lose this that and the other out of the water

 

[Eeyore]

Really?

Grass roots Tories are a pretty Eurosceptic bunch.

I'm pretty sure. His whole Europe thing is a front anyway. Nasty piece of political work that chap.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I agree that the UK voting system is unfair. For example, UKIP won 14% of the popular vote and has 1 MP. SNP 4% and 49 MPs I think. So yes, it's wrong. However, if this gets to be a big enough political issue it could change. What won't change in the EU is the power retained by the political elite who aren't elected.

So, are you happier in a EU where you don't get a real vote (as the power is with the elected Commission), or in an independant UK with a voting system which is flawed? In my opinion, there EU is a way for the elite to control a huge number of people yet be totally unaccountable. That is far, far worse than being in an independant country with a system which would benefit from reform.

For sure, it's flawed. I'm not denying that. I have a working grasp of what the EU does and the systems it has in place, and I don't deny for a second that it isn't perfect. But by the very nature of it, you've got a lot more voices (of which we're a strong one at present) making and driving policy in the interests of ALL nations. Yes, we don't get to vote for each and every member, but we do vote in our Government from which our head of state joins the EU Council which has to agree to any law that is passed by the EU Parliament, which itself is made up of elected MEPs from the member states.

Now this obviously means we don't get to vote on every single person that makes up the EU law making bodies, but I personally don't get to vote for every person who becomes an MP in Britain, nor do I get to vote for a majority of the House of Lords, nor do I get to vote for a Head of State in Britain. So I see no real difference, on a purely democratic level, between how much of a say I'll have as a voter whether we leave or we stay in the EU. I still have basically no decision making power about the make up of those two respective bodies.

So what it then comes down to for me, on a democratic level at least, is which body I trust most to build our laws as a whole community. And for me personally, that is the EU, despite their flaws. And a part of the reason behind that, is that I simply don't trust the two main parties within our country drive us forward if left to their own devices.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Your children (and mine) certainly will see the impact. They won't be able to afford to buy a property in the not too distant future. One effect of mass immigration has been to drive up the price of property, which in the SE is crazy.

Unless of course they don't mind living in shared houses, 2 or 3 to a bedroom, as a lot of immigrants from Eastern Europe seem happy to do.

I really fear for this country if Cameron's shameful scaremongering wins the day.

If your children's only goal is to own a property, I'd suggest they either move abroad or move to another part of the country. You know, where house prices are cheaper.

 

[larus]

For sure, it's flawed. I'm not denying that. I have a working grasp of what the EU does and the systems it has in place, and I don't deny for a second that it isn't perfect. But by the very nature of it, you've got a lot more voices (of which we're a strong one at present) making and driving policy in the interests of ALL nations. Yes, we don't get to vote for each and every member, but we do vote in our Government from which our head of state joins the EU Council which has to agree to any law that is passed by the EU Parliament, which itself is made up of elected MEPs from the member states.

Now this obviously means we don't get to vote on every single person that makes up the EU law making bodies, but I personally don't get to vote for every person who becomes an MP in Britain, nor do I get to vote for a majority of the House of Lords, nor do I get to vote for a Head of State in Britain. So I see no real difference, on a purely democratic level, between how much of a say I'll have as a voter whether we leave or we stay in the EU. I still have basically no decision making power about the make up of those two respective bodies.

So what it then comes down to for me, on a democratic level at least, is which body I trust most to build our laws as a whole community. And for me personally, that is the EU, despite their flaws. And a part of the reason behind that, is that I simply don't trust the two main parties within our country drive us forward if left to their own devices.

Interesting perspective (not meant in a sarcastic way). I feel that we are both disillusioned with main-stream politics, but have reached slightly different outcomes by considering the facts as we understand them. At least we've had a reasoned few posts with no name calling and no stupid 'facts' being thrown about. I may disagree with your conclusion, but I can't say that anything you have said is wrong or misleading. My concerns are the concentration of power in commissioners and the head of states to implement changes and these are often not deemed to require popular support.

I feel that the Swiss model on referendums is quite appealing. Key issues are removed from the political class. Yes, I'm sure there are some drawbacks, but the ability of the general population to have a say on major policy keeps more power with the population.

 

[Lethargic]

The whole campaign sums up current politics, pathetic. I am no wiser now than when it started it's like a bunch of kids in the school playground, they all need a damn good slap.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[portslade seagull]

It's weird Argue pool showing majority want out something fishy with the votes on here. It's closer than this poll