Hosham UKIP public meeting tonight in Horsham at 19:30

[Deleted member 22389]

I have two serious questions for the UKIPERS on here. A, If we pull out of the E.U., who do we trade with, and B, Where will we find workers to do the horrible, menial jobs for the low wages that the right wingers seem to love other people getting that migrants do now?

People listen to Barosso as though he speaks for the whole of the EU, when a large majority of ordinary people in Spain, Italy, Greece want rid of the EU, want rid of the Euro, they want OUT except their own governments are not giving them any say whatsoever because they are stuck. No democracy with the EU whatsoever as once again has been proved. Just let us decide who we want to allow in to this country, or get us out this joke club that costs us 55 million pounds a day.

 

[lawros left foot]

A. With exactly the markets we currently trade with. Around 50% of our trade is to non-EU countries. Our trade with EU members would continue, the Germans are hardly going to prevent us buying their BMWs and they will want our car designers to continue designing them their high quality cars.

B. Any part of the job market that was short of workers could be supplemented by workers coming in on points based visas. That's one of the points but too many hand wringers think UKIP says no immigration when reality is that UKIP says controlled immigration.

Do you really believe that the French, Germans etc would be so keen to trade with us? Realistically they would be more likely to tell us to take a running jump at ourselves, and apply pressure non EU countries to do the same. Do you really think the global banks would keep London, outside the EU, as the major financial centre in Europe? Do you really believe thatmajor global companies, would wnt to keep manufacturing plants here, outside the EU if we werent in the European club? If you do, you have far more faith in those companies, and our European partners than I do

 

[cunning fergus]

I have a third!

How do UKIP supporters justify the recruitment of a Polish MEP who is a member of a party led by a holocaust denier who wants to deny women the vote as well as other far right racist views.

Makes you proud to be British - - - - NOT

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...deal-with-far-right-to-save-european-grouping

How do the pro EU people justify being part of a political construct that connects the UK to the very people who are electing such people as their parliamentary representative? Such people who incidentally can come here with their vile views without a by your leave?

Makes you proud to be pro EU?

 

[lawros left foot]

People listen to Barosso as though he speaks for the whole of the EU, when a large majority of ordinary people in Spain, Italy, Greece want rid of the EU, want rid of the Euro, they want OUT except their own governments are not giving them any say whatsoever because they are stuck. No democracy with the EU whatsoever as once again has been proved. Just let us decide who we want to allow in to this country, or get us out this joke club that costs us 55 million pounds a day.

Doesn't really answer my question though does it?

 

[e77]

The evidence suggests that planes of ex pats are already coming in and we are in the EU.........however I agree that some control is required, unfortunately the problem is that we don't have it, and ironically we won't get it by staying in the EU.

I'm still at a loss to understand the point about immigrants working in NHS? We have 8 prisons in the UK dedicated to the burgeoning immigrant prison population of 14%, so does that mean the prison system is also reliant on immigrants?

http://www.irr.org.uk/news/segregating-foreign-national-prisoners/

1 in 4 NHS Doctors are foreign nationals. Fairly straightforward.

I detect you are hoping for some spirited debate about foreign criminals. Sorry to disappoint but I would in the main send them back from where they came.

 

[Creaky]

How do the pro EU people justify being part of a political construct that connects the UK to the very people who are electing such people as their parliamentary representative? Such people who incidentally can come here with their vile views without a by your leave?

Makes you proud to be pro EU?

So wha tyou are saying is the end justifies the means!

It's fine to form a direct alliance and working agreement with someone who holds what you describe as "vile views" because possibly, maybe, well there is a slight chance those same individuals may be sopped from coming to the UK - nothing to do with the additional money UKIP will get because of this alliance!

I would have expected a more reasoned justification for such an alliance.

 

[cunning fergus]

Do you really believe that the French, Germans etc would be so keen to trade with us? Realistically they would be more likely to tell us to take a running jump at ourselves, and apply pressure non EU countries to do the same. Do you really think the global banks would keep London, outside the EU, as the major financial centre in Europe? Do you really believe thatmajor global companies, would wnt to keep manufacturing plants here, outside the EU if we werent in the European club? If you do, you have far more faith in those companies, and our European partners than I do

Given your confidence in security that being in the EU provides employees in these big companies, can you explain why thousands of Ford jobs in the UK and wider EU were lost so that they could shift manufacturing to a Turkey (outside the EU). A plant incidentally built with an EU subsidy from EU taxpayers.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/update-ford-transfer-uk-plant-turkey

Being in the EU hardly helped them.........

 

[cunning fergus]

So wha tyou are saying is the end justifies the means!

It's fine to form a direct alliance and working agreement with someone who holds what you describe as "vile views" because possibly, maybe, well there is a slight chance those same individuals may be sopped from coming to the UK - nothing to do with the additional money UKIP will get because of this alliance!

I would have expected a more reasoned justification for such an alliance.

I suspect most UKIP voters would rather not be in a political construct that means they have to form alliances with such people in the first place.

As Churchill once said, if Hitler invaded hell I would sit down with the devil..........

 

[Creaky]

I suspect most UKIP voters would rather not be in a political construct that means they have to form alliances with such people in the first place.

As Churchill once said, if Hitler invaded hell I would sit down with the devil..........

The only "reason" UKIP "have to form alliances with such people" is a monetary one.

Do you really believe Churchill would have sat down with Hitler for the sake of a million pounds!

 

[cunning fergus]

1 in 4 NHS Doctors are foreign nationals. Fairly straightforward.

I detect you are hoping for some spirited debate about foreign criminals. Sorry to disappoint but I would in the main send them back from where they came.

Hooray for the foreign Doctors, as long as you get the right one...........

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/dec/30/majority-of-doctors-disciplined-trained-abroad

http://www.hcrlaw.com/blog/ministers-say-nhs-foreign-doctors-must-speak-english/

 

[lawros left foot]

Given your confidence in security that being in the EU provides employees in these big companies, can you explain why thousands of Ford jobs in the UK and wider EU were lost so that they could shift manufacturing to a Turkey (outside the EU). A plant incidentally built with an EU subsidy from EU taxpayers.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/update-ford-transfer-uk-plant-turkey

Being in the EU hardly helped them.........

Cheap labour, something this country would have to encourage if we left the EU, to the detriment of our workforce.

 

[BHAFC_Pandapops]

Absolutely resent UKIP. They claim to represent what We think as a country. When we argue with them they say "well it's what we were all thinking". Hell, they even quote World War Two as being the war which was fought to ensure Liberty. The liberty to afford those of all colour and creed to simply exist. Which is extremely ironic given that they seem to have an irrational, misguided hatred toward Jews, LGBT, Immigrants and Muslims.

They can piss off back into their festering gutter.

 

[cunning fergus]

The only "reason" UKIP "have to form alliances with such people" is a monetary one.

Do you really believe Churchill would have sat down with Hitler for the sake of a million pounds!

Well sure, they need the money to bankroll a campaign to get the UK out of the EU.

If they are successful they won't need an alliance with any EU racists..........or otherwise.

The real question here of course is why are political parties in the EU getting ANY money from the taxpayer..........seems the EU political class don't do the austerity the prescribe for the people.

 

[lawros left foot]

Well sure, they need the money to bankroll a campaign to get the UK out of the EU.

If they are successful they won't need an alliance with any EU racists..........or otherwise.

The real question here of course is why are political parties in the EU getting ANY money from the taxpayer..........seems the EU political class don't do the austerity the prescribe for the people.

Of course they don't, they're politicians. And good old UKIP have their snouts buried deep in the trough, just like the rest of them, HYPOCRITES

 

[cunning fergus]

Cheap labour, something this country would have to encourage if we left the EU, to the detriment of our workforce.

I see, so all the while we are in the EU and have no control on our internal labour market we are not encouraging it now?

http://news.sky.com/story/1127184/wages-uk-workers-in-europes-bottom-four

 

[Creaky]

Well sure, they need the money to bankroll a campaign to get the UK out of the EU.

If they are successful they won't need an alliance with any EU racists..........or otherwise.

The real question here of course is why are political parties in the EU getting ANY money from the taxpayer..........seems the EU political class don't do the austerity the prescribe for the people.

So 'the end justifies the means' really is the best justification you can come up with!

I'm not going to claim other parties behave with any more of a moral compass but an elected British politician, leader of a British political party, forming an alliance with someone like Iwaszkiewicz is a national disgrace.

By their friends you shall know them.

 

[lawros left foot]

It's bad now, and if we left, with not even the EU worker protection that we have now, it would be ten times worse. If the workers of this country voted to leave the EU it would be turkeys voting for Christmas

 

[cunning fergus]

So 'the end justifies the means' really is the best justification you can come up with!

I'm not going to claim other parties behave with any more of a moral compass but an elected British politician, leader of a British political party, forming an alliance with someone like Iwaszkiewicz is a national disgrace.

By their friends you shall know them.

Depends on the ends and the means, frankly other Politicians have been prepared to get into bed with a lot worse than odious politicians from Poland.

http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/jonathan-powell-talking-to-t-85808

 

[Creaky]

Depends on the ends and the means, frankly other Politicians have been prepared to get into bed with a lot worse than odious politicians from Poland.

http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/jonathan-powell-talking-to-t-85808

At least he had the good grace to do so in private.

As I said earlier the moral compass of all parties and politicians can be questioned - what Farage and UKIP have done though by forming an alliance with the likes of Iwaszkiewicz is beyond the pale and brings the whole of UK politics into disrepute on the world stage.

I am assuming you are a UKIP supporter, if you are do you not feel any embarrasment over this or can UKIP really do no wrong.

 

[cunning fergus]

It's bad now, and if we left, with not even the EU worker protection that we have now, it would be ten times worse. If the workers of this country voted to leave the EU it would be turkeys voting for Christmas

What is the basis for that argument, even Labour (based on recent articles and recent conference) now accept that an unrestricted labour market (based on the EU principle of freedom of movement) has been detrimental to British workers interests, particularly the low skilled. Do you really think they are wrong?

The reality is that as bad as it is in the UK it's much worse for workers in the EU and particularly some of the EZ countries. This is all of their own making by not managing the euro properly. Even the EU leaders recognise the unfolding catastrophe.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/...uelling-social-injustice-and-violating-human-

Once these workers realise that the solution to their problems is to surrender fiscal sovereignty to unelected technocrats and ze Germans, do you honestly think things will get better for the EU?