The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
I notice you didn't address EP other points so I take it you're in favour of them (but possibly can't quite bring yourself to admit that on a public forum).
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Hosham UKIP public meeting tonight in Horsham at 19:30
- Thread starter piersa
- Start date
I notice you didn't address EP other points so I take it you're in favour of them (but possibly can't quite bring yourself to admit that on a public forum).
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,526
Absolutely, that would be my preferred method of enacting change too. I certainly never thought I would support a far-right party, many of whose policies I disagree with, on a one-issue ticket. Certainly not when I was an assistant campaign manager for my local Lib Dem candidate, and a former member of the party. The problem is that the scenario you described simply never happened. UKIP exist because the current and past governments of the last two decades have, basically, ignored the whispers of the public. The whispers turned to murmurs, then open calls for a discussion on the issue. Now people are left with no other option to have their voice heard on this issue than to vote UKIP.
The main parties are ONLY now using the "I word" to appease potential UKIP voters; because they realised "Oooh shit, that small voice of loonies and racists turn out to be potentially millions of UKIP voters".
IF they had the balls to discuss immigration sooner, none of this would have happened. In my opinion, the past and previous government simply "disregarded" public opinion on this matter, as many kind of policy relating to immigration immediately throws up accusations of racism and will be considered divisive by liberals.
Sorrel
Well-known member
I live in this constituency, so I'm interested in what the candidates for the seat are saying. I'll certainly be going to hear them talk nearer the election.
Currently I prefer the Conservatives to UKIP (no one else has a chance in the seat) as I think they are far more realistic and pragmatic, while UKIP like to promise unrealistic things. However, any candidate who promises to stop the endless building of new houses will probably get a lot of votes.
Re UKIP: I know people get fairly het up about them, but I like to judge parties and candidates on their policies at that time and the candidate I could actually vote for. If they say crazy things in the 2015 election manifesto (like they did in 2010) then they deserve ridicule. But I'm not interested in abuse given to people and parties for things in the past.
Currently I prefer the Conservatives to UKIP (no one else has a chance in the seat) as I think they are far more realistic and pragmatic, while UKIP like to promise unrealistic things. However, any candidate who promises to stop the endless building of new houses will probably get a lot of votes.
Re UKIP: I know people get fairly het up about them, but I like to judge parties and candidates on their policies at that time and the candidate I could actually vote for. If they say crazy things in the 2015 election manifesto (like they did in 2010) then they deserve ridicule. But I'm not interested in abuse given to people and parties for things in the past.
- Thread starter
- #144
Really? How old are you?
- Thread starter
- #145
If only everyone was as logical as this.
- Thread starter
- #146
I got a copy of the notes from his speech, which I have copied below. Look pretty reasonable to me. Others may agree/disagree.
North Heath Speech 17-10-14
1. Ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for giving up your Friday evening to be with us tonight. I am Roger Arthur a Chartered Engineer, who has designed and commissioned projects across the globe. I am UKIP’s Parliamentary Candidate for Horsham.
I resigned as HDC Deputy Tory Leader 18 months ago and you may have noticed that one or two others of greater fame, have recently followed my example! We now have several hundred councillors across the UK, plus an MP in Clacton and more to come.
2. We were told that a vote for UKIP would put Milliband in, but in Heywood, people let Labour in by, voting Tory. UKIP’s vote went up by over 170% in the WSCC elections. Against a Tory drop of 40% and in Horsham District we moved 5,000 votes from the Tories in the EU elections, leaving us almost neck and neck with the Tories.
3. We are seeing an historic change in voting trends, which the media and the old parties continue to brand as wrong-headed? Rather than address our concerns, they say that it is the voters who are wrong!
It is they that are wrong for having ignored voters’ concerns for too long and they are being punished for that. They will make all kinds of promises now.
4. They understand that the uncontrolled flooding of our country with low cost labour, is of concern. So is being told what to do by Brussels, or the threat of power cuts, or that EU membership costs us around £185billion pa, or that the EU is in long term decline.
5. But what they don’t grasp is our increasing disgust with them, because they have ignored our interests & concerns – and that they have probably left it too late to re-gain respect.
MPs have been awarded an 11% pay rise, whilst many in the real world have seen no real increase in disposable income for many years, yet they insult our intelligence by saying that we are all in this together!
6. We were told that local councils would make planning decisions. They sold that as Localism, but instead the Coalition empowered Planning Inspectors to double development on green field land.
They put developers in the driving seat, often against the wishes of residents and councillors, putting infrastructure under serious pressure.
7. With the expenses scandal and cash for questions fresh in our minds, an internet search tells us that an MP is currently more likely to have a criminal record, than the average member of the public.
That wouldn’t be so bad if we could know who they are, before being asked to vote at a general election, but it seems the House of Commons does not hold that information.
8. So what did the political classes do to restore their integrity? Well they brought in Leveson to curtail the freedom of the Press, after Cameron had said that he would not cross that Rubicon.
The Press is now under the thumb of Privy Councillors and in future it may become more difficult for the Press to report on MP’s expenses.
9. Oh and of course I must not forget to mention the UK debt, which is expected rise by around £168 billion this year. As you may have noticed, that is close to the annual cost of our being in the EU. If we had not incurred that cost, then we would have no debt now!
The Government continues to spend about 20% more than it gets in taxes and (if its costs are not reduced) it will be after 2020, before we start to pay off the debt. While >1m more people are now in work, overall productivity and exports have not risen, because we are in a credit led bubble. The Tories hope that we will not notice that.
10 More than ever, we need politicians who can be trusted, we want government for the people by people who are not in it for a career or for the money?
We have been treated with contempt by the old political classes for too long. Give us the MPs and Councillors needed and we will fight to bring back democracy and to throw off those who have brought our Parliament into disrepute.
11. We don’t want to be a star on someone else’s flag and we don’t want Parliament to be redundant. So, if you want to pass on a democratic and sovereign country to your grandchildren, then please join us
North Heath Speech 17-10-14
1. Ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for giving up your Friday evening to be with us tonight. I am Roger Arthur a Chartered Engineer, who has designed and commissioned projects across the globe. I am UKIP’s Parliamentary Candidate for Horsham.
I resigned as HDC Deputy Tory Leader 18 months ago and you may have noticed that one or two others of greater fame, have recently followed my example! We now have several hundred councillors across the UK, plus an MP in Clacton and more to come.
2. We were told that a vote for UKIP would put Milliband in, but in Heywood, people let Labour in by, voting Tory. UKIP’s vote went up by over 170% in the WSCC elections. Against a Tory drop of 40% and in Horsham District we moved 5,000 votes from the Tories in the EU elections, leaving us almost neck and neck with the Tories.
3. We are seeing an historic change in voting trends, which the media and the old parties continue to brand as wrong-headed? Rather than address our concerns, they say that it is the voters who are wrong!
It is they that are wrong for having ignored voters’ concerns for too long and they are being punished for that. They will make all kinds of promises now.
4. They understand that the uncontrolled flooding of our country with low cost labour, is of concern. So is being told what to do by Brussels, or the threat of power cuts, or that EU membership costs us around £185billion pa, or that the EU is in long term decline.
5. But what they don’t grasp is our increasing disgust with them, because they have ignored our interests & concerns – and that they have probably left it too late to re-gain respect.
MPs have been awarded an 11% pay rise, whilst many in the real world have seen no real increase in disposable income for many years, yet they insult our intelligence by saying that we are all in this together!
6. We were told that local councils would make planning decisions. They sold that as Localism, but instead the Coalition empowered Planning Inspectors to double development on green field land.
They put developers in the driving seat, often against the wishes of residents and councillors, putting infrastructure under serious pressure.
7. With the expenses scandal and cash for questions fresh in our minds, an internet search tells us that an MP is currently more likely to have a criminal record, than the average member of the public.
That wouldn’t be so bad if we could know who they are, before being asked to vote at a general election, but it seems the House of Commons does not hold that information.
8. So what did the political classes do to restore their integrity? Well they brought in Leveson to curtail the freedom of the Press, after Cameron had said that he would not cross that Rubicon.
The Press is now under the thumb of Privy Councillors and in future it may become more difficult for the Press to report on MP’s expenses.
9. Oh and of course I must not forget to mention the UK debt, which is expected rise by around £168 billion this year. As you may have noticed, that is close to the annual cost of our being in the EU. If we had not incurred that cost, then we would have no debt now!
The Government continues to spend about 20% more than it gets in taxes and (if its costs are not reduced) it will be after 2020, before we start to pay off the debt. While >1m more people are now in work, overall productivity and exports have not risen, because we are in a credit led bubble. The Tories hope that we will not notice that.
10 More than ever, we need politicians who can be trusted, we want government for the people by people who are not in it for a career or for the money?
We have been treated with contempt by the old political classes for too long. Give us the MPs and Councillors needed and we will fight to bring back democracy and to throw off those who have brought our Parliament into disrepute.
11. We don’t want to be a star on someone else’s flag and we don’t want Parliament to be redundant. So, if you want to pass on a democratic and sovereign country to your grandchildren, then please join us
sir albion
New member
In that case we'll just open the floodgates even more then as everybody will want this
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
You regard this as a juvenile or frivolous point? Personally I think anyone who is prepared to swallow this other nonsense purely because UKIP also shares their views on a single subject, immigration, should be the one examining the maturity of their political ideology.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,201
Anyone that "is prepared to swallow" that voters JUST look at the "single subject immigration" should perhaps be "examining the maturity" themselves. Just generalise eh, because some voters could not possibly agree with other parts of the manifesto.
Anyway
More tosh from Call Me Dave, and of course Labour will be as much use as a man with one leg at an arse kicking party as well.
"Jose Manuel Barroso says freedom of movement is an essential principle, and suggests plans to limit national insurance numbers for migrants would be illegal under EU law "
David Cameron’s attempt to control EU migration by capping national insurance numbers breaks EU laws because freedom of movement is an "essential" principle, the President of the European Commission has said.
In a clear indication that Britain will be locked into a battle with Brussels over the proposed changes José Manuel Barroso said: “The principle of freedom of movement is essential, we have to keep it.”
The Prime Minister plans to cut the level of migration from the EU by limiting the number of new national insurance numbers available to low skilled immigrants.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rkers-is-illegal-European-President-says.html
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
.. another indoctrinated fool who'd rather give trust to a party full of clones than sought a better alternative.
do away with media propaganda .. its clear to see the fella's already been hoodwinked. establishment loves the likes of you.
As someone who doesn't believe scientists, do you believe that smoking is harmful to health, and if so, why?
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
I lost both my mother and father in 2012 the health care they received was to put it mildly shame full.
both were born here like their parents before them.. both had never been out of work.. both had paid national insurance throughout the whole of their working lives.
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
I suffer mild COPD and got told by my GP to give up the fags right now or suffer chronic emphysema in 5 years time, what do you think i done ?
of course they are bad for you but so is coffee and so is almost everything else out there..
I tend to think they make way to much fuss about it though, Media/ GP'S the lot all treat the public as idiots ..as if the public cant think for themselves and don't know the risks.
I never have worked out why Cameron took the Conservatives out of the EPP EU Parliament grouping. With the German economy cooling and the demand for foreign labour diminishing, it is beginning to sound like Merkel might listen to ideas for restrictions on freedom of movement.
But you can think for yourself and you did know the risks, yet you still chose to ignore that and smoke. Why?
Could it not be argued they are trying to reduce future public spending by offering prevention rather than cure?
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
Thanks for joining in but I was talking to Persius who was saying exactly that. Single issue as far as he was concerned.
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,526
Is there anything actually wrong with that?
Personally, I view UKIP as a single issue party. The issue in question is huge and life changing for my potential grandchildren as to the direction this country heads in. It's an issue that no other legitimate political party had addressed on any level whatsoever prior to the rise of UKIP.
Politicians only do what their spin doctors and civil servants tell them to do based on what they believe is general public feeling. Those last three words are crucial. They may not be your feelings, but they are strong feelings held by hundreds of thousands of people and more - who have a democratic voice and one - count them - one voice actually listening to them on their issue.
Your post is representative of everything wrong with the political status quo that got us to this point.