Homophobic Leicester fans

[Wrong-Direction]

Well it hasn't taken long for the shit to hit the fan has it

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[Mr Bridger]

Well it hasn't taken long for the shit to hit the fan has it

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I didn't see that, that really is taking the p!ss. Something has got to be done.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Sounds traumatic , hope everyone who went yesterday slept well, remember don't have nightmares
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

NOTHING will happen as this has been going on for years and, er, NOTHING has happened. It does not help when so many of our fans do not see the harm in it and almost seem to enjoy it, very odd. It is wrong on every level and we have had this debate hundreds of times but it seems to me no one in authority seems to think it is a serious issue and will continue to do the square root of sod all to stop it

Something has happened. Up until four years ago, ground regulations didn't mention homophobic abuse, now, because of the hard work, the late Sarah Watts put it, the ground regulations were changed.
You might remember she was given a posthumous award for it.

It is progress, albeit slow.

 

[cunning fergus]

My best mate is gay. He likes d*ck. Quite frankly, I don't care what he likes as he's my best mate. But I know how he feels when he hears homophobic chanting at a match and it appalls me that the police let sections of every supporter group get away with it.

So I stand by my original statement. Homophobic chanting, which is a criminal offence, should be treated as such and arrests should happen. That the police are too scared to do so is a damning indictment of our society and the lack of real progress we've made. This isn't faux outrage - such things have incredibly detrimental effects on many people that are affected by them and the law should be strong enough to stand up to the bullies and cowards that sing such songs (and yes, there are Brighton fans that do such things, to my disgust).

Yes, that the police are scared to get involved with criminality is a damning indictment of our society.....I really couldn't agree more. On the hierarchy of damnation though, where does chants of "we can see you holding hands" register against other instances of police inaction?

Take for example:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...entary-rochdale-grooming-scandal-13257082.amp

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...e-turned-blind-eye-to-sexualised-culture.html

To quote Brucie......higher or lower?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Every time this subject gets discussed, there are thick ones who invariably quote We can see you holding hands.
Try being a little more original and discuss the problem sensibly.

 

[cunning fergus]

Every time this subject gets discussed, there are thick ones who invariably quote We can see you holding hands.
Try being a little more original and discuss the problem sensibly.

OK TB but the reference was in the context of police inaction, shameful as it may be......however there are plenty of other examples of police inaction. I highlighted two, and are they worse examples of police inaction or not? Be honest?

Perspective is very important in these debates.......where do we want police priority time (or should I say taxpayers money) spent.......if this is a serious crime that we want the police to purse vigorously then there is a quid pro quo.

It seems to me the Police are dealing with lots of issues and threats, where does homophobic chanting at football matches fit in their hierarchy of priorities?

 

[sydney]

They're not too sensitive, you're just a bit clueless about what being racist and homophobic is. I'm not sure you can see the difference between jokes like 'sheep shaggers' and homophobia.

Prosecuting people will make it stop. Thankfully we don't really have racist chanting here any more, and that has made a difference to people's lives.

Who is arguing that that is homophobic? I'm quite interested to hear that argument, because I can't see it. It seems to be saying that gay people take pride in their appearance and look good. How the hell is that homophobic?

When you say 'give it large', you must mean being racist or homophobic or something, right? Surely you don't just mean legal chanting?

i am fully aware of the dynamics of racism and homophobia , i just don't think that chanting at a football match equates to homophobia........large crowds of opposing fans drenched in lager hurling abuse at each other has been part and parcel of a saturday afternoons entertainment for the last 60 years , but what would i know .....?? i only lived in Sydney for 22 years , start chucking around anti -gay verbals there and your likely to find yourself holding your teeth.
" Homophobes" are viewed as cavemen and that's what they are .....the thinking is outdated , the bigger bite they get out of the offendee the more they are gonna do it , particularly at the football.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

They're not too sensitive, you're just a bit clueless about what being racist and homophobic is. I'm not sure you can see the difference between jokes like 'sheep shaggers' and homophobia.

So it's fine to insinuate someone engages in beastiality. That's just a joke. But chanting insinuating someone is gay because they are from Brighton is beyond the pale? I would suggest that you might want to rethink you're boundaries on offensive chanting. If someone suggested I was gay, I wouldn't have an issue. If someone suggested I had intercourse with woolly animals, i'd have more of an issue.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Hang on. Why do you think the 'too ugly to be gay' chant is ignorant ? I see it as Brighton fans being supportive of and aligning ourselves with gay fans over ignorant bigots.

Because it's suggesting that there is a level of ugliness where someone can't possibly be gay. It works on the basis that most, if not all, gay men are "pretty boys." In itself the response is based on a stereotype. It's not difficult to see why it's ignorant!

 

[Tarpon]

So it's fine to insinuate someone engages in beastiality. That's just a joke. But chanting insinuating someone is gay because they are from Brighton is beyond the pale? I would suggest that you might want to rethink you're boundaries on offensive chanting. If someone suggested I was gay, I wouldn't have an issue. If someone suggested I had intercourse with woolly animals, i'd have more of an issue.

What's your (favoured) position with animals that are not woolly?

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

My best mate is gay. He likes d*ck. Quite frankly, I don't care what he likes as he's my best mate. But I know how he feels when he hears homophobic chanting at a match and it appalls me that the police let sections of every supporter group get away with it.

So I stand by my original statement. Homophobic chanting, which is a criminal offence, should be treated as such and arrests should happen. That the police are too scared to do so is a damning indictment of our society and the lack of real progress we've made. This isn't faux outrage - such things have incredibly detrimental effects on many people that are affected by them and the law should be strong enough to stand up to the bullies and cowards that sing such songs (and yes, there are Brighton fans that do such things, to my disgust).

I would suggest that it isn't that the police are scared, more that it's difficult to work out who's actually chanting. If you had 200 people in a block chanting homophobic chants, you'd need a lot of police to arrest them!

Perhaps the clubs identifying people chanting and banning them from the ground might be a better way to go.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

What's your (favoured) position with animals that are not woolly?

My view is that animals are for eating not ****ing. As for position, i'm happy at the dining table, on the sofa or occasionally on bed if the mood takes me

 

[Tarpon]

My view is that animals are for eating not ****ing. As for position, i'm happy at the dining table, on the sofa or occasionally on bed if the mood takes me

They'd probably rather be ****ed.

 

[SeagullCrow]

OK TB but the reference was in the context of police inaction, shameful as it may be......however there are plenty of other examples of police inaction. I highlighted two, and are they worse examples of police inaction or not? Be honest?

Perspective is very important in these debates.......where do we want police priority time (or should I say taxpayers money) spent.......if this is a serious crime that we want the police to purse vigorously then there is a quid pro quo.

It seems to me the Police are dealing with lots of issues and threats, where does homophobic chanting at football matches fit in their hierarchy of priorities?

I'm not sure that it is as simple as an issue of moral hierarchy. Just because the police have ignored certain offences for decades doesn't make it right that they do so. Social movements and pressure groups worked hard throughout the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s to shine a public light on the profound harm caused by 'invisible' offences (such as child abuse, sexual violence, domestic violence for example) - the pressure that they applied forced the police and criminal justice system to treat such offences with the gravity that they deserve, rather than as 'domestic' matters.

Equally, 'hate crime' legislation came into being for a reason - it demonstrated that by the 1990s prejudice and discrimination (be that racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, or religious intolerance) were no longer socially acceptable, and it offended the collective majority. The language used in many of these chants does fall into the 'hate incident' or 'hate crime' category, and as such does constitute a criminal offence. Inaction by the authorities (be that the police or the FA) on this issue simply serves to perpetuate the idea among some groups of supporters that it is acceptable to behave in this way, and that there is no harm or offence caused because it is only 'banter'. The context of a football match does not excuse such behaviour or attitudes, and the only way in which there will ever be any progress on this issue is if there is continued pressure applied by the football clubs, the FA and the police to do something about it.

 

[Triggaaar]

i am fully aware of the dynamics of racism and homophobia , i just don't think that chanting at a football match equates to homophobia........large crowds of opposing fans drenched in lager hurling abuse at each other has been part and parcel of a saturday afternoons entertainment for the last 60 years , but what would i know .

Not a lot it seems. General meaningless abuse is fine. Racism isn't, homophobia isn't. Do you accept that it's not ok to chant racist abuse at football matches? If so, why can't you see that chanting homophobic abuse is also wrong?

the bigger bite they get out of the offendee the more they are gonna do it , particularly at the football.

If people are taken out of the crowd and excluded from attending, then people will stop doing it.

So it's fine to insinuate someone engages in beastiality. That's just a joke. But chanting insinuating someone is gay because they are from Brighton is beyond the pale? I would suggest that you might want to rethink you're boundaries on offensive chanting. If someone suggested I was gay, I wouldn't have an issue. If someone suggested I had intercourse with woolly animals, i'd have more of an issue.

You have no idea what the issue is. I will try and explain:

1) Yes, suggesting the opposition's fans are into bestiality is a joke. We know they're not. They know they're not. Everyone knows they're not. It's not a serious accusation.
2) Are you seriously saying you'd be upset if the opposition sang that about us? Really? I certainly wouldn't, I can't see why anyone would.
3) When the opposing fans suggest we're gay, as if that's a bad thing:
a) I'm not personally upset (just as you're not) because I'm not gay, and I don't see being gay as a negative thing anyway, but...
b) Some gay people will find it offensive that lots of people are chanting against homosexuality as if it's bad. Particularly, IMO, people who are just coming to terms with their sexuality themselves. Imagine you were an 18 year old and you've realised that you're attracted to men, not women - but you've not told your friends yet, as you don't know how they'll react - and there you are with your friends, away to Brighton, and your friends are singing anti gay songs. Can you appreciate that many people in that position would feel really shit?

As Comedy Steve put it, you can't compare gay relationships with bestiality. One is a loving relationship between consenting adults, and the other is animal rape.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Not a lot it seems. General meaningless abuse is fine. Racism isn't, homophobia isn't. Do you accept that it's not ok to chant racist abuse at football matches? If so, why can't you see that chanting homophobic abuse is also wrong?

If people are taken out of the crowd and excluded from attending, then people will stop doing it.

You have no idea what the issue is. I will try and explain:

1) Yes, suggesting the opposition's fans are into bestiality is a joke. We know they're not. They know they're not. Everyone knows they're not. It's not a serious accusation.
2) Are you seriously saying you'd be upset if the opposition sang that about us? Really? I certainly wouldn't, I can't see why anyone would.
3) When the opposing fans suggest we're gay, as if that's a bad thing:
a) I'm not personally upset (just as you're not) because I'm not gay, and I don't see being gay as a negative thing anyway, but...
b) Some gay people will find it offensive that lots of people are chanting against homosexuality as if it's bad. Particularly, IMO, people who are just coming to terms with their sexuality themselves. Imagine you were an 18 year old and you've realised that you're attracted to men, not women - but you've not told your friends yet, as you don't know how they'll react - and there you are with your friends, away to Brighton, and your friends are singing anti gay songs. Can you appreciate that many people in that position would feel really shit?

As Comedy Steve put it, you can't compare gay relationships with bestiality. One is a loving relationship between consenting adults, and the other is animal rape.

To be honest, I think you hit the nail on the head very early in this thread. It's an issue that you take personally due, and I'm guessing, to your own situation or that of those close to you.

In my experience, an issue that someone feels so strongly about because they are personally affected, often fails to strike the same chord with other not directly affected. Due to that, I shall bow out of this thread.

I don't wish to see anyone attending Albion games home or away, subjected to behaviour that leaves them feeling uncomfortable or targeted but unfortunately there will always be a minority of idiots.

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[Triggaaar]

To be honest, I think you hit the nail on the head very early in this thread. It's an issue that you take personally due, and I'm guessing, to your own situation or that of those close to you.

Actually homophobia isn't something that impacts on my family or those closest to me (ableism is), but I'm confident that I understand it and I do care about the issue, just as I do about racism too.

Earlier I commented on how I imagined it would be worse for gay fans of the teams we play against, rather than our gay fans - and then today that opinion seemed to be backed up by a Leicester fan who was ashamed of their fellow fans (not sure if you've seen the link).

In my experience, an issue that someone feels so strongly about because they are personally affected, often fails to strike the same chord with other not directly affected.

I think perhaps you just haven't realised how much it can affect people, but if you did maybe you'd care more. I think most of us decent Brightonians who aren't directly affected by racism still do care about the issue, because while we're not affected, we do understand it and we can easily imagine how crap it is for people from an ethnic minority to face abuse.

Strangely I think plenty of gay people also don't 'get it', which doesn't help at all. Matt Lucas, for example, saying he thinks 'we can see you holding hands' is fine. I assume he thinks that's fine because he's out and proud, he thinks it's just a funny joke, and he mistakenly thinks all gay people must be like him. He's not empathising with those who aren't finding life as a gay man so easy, or those who haven't come to terms with their sexuality or come out yet.

It reminds me of some black people from the media in the 70s who were so used to racist abuse that they started to believe that some of it was acceptable.

Due to that, I shall bow out of this thread.

You're call of course, but I appreciate you listening to someone else's perspective.

I don't wish to see anyone attending Albion games home or away, subjected to behaviour that leaves them feeling uncomfortable or targeted but unfortunately there will always be a minority of idiots.

I'm more optimistic - I think with comments like that from the Leicester fan, us educating people a bit more, and the authorities taking action when appropriate, it will stop. The racist abuse from fans in this country used to be horrendous (people threw bananas FFS, great banter), but that just wouldn't happen now. If someone started singing a racist song it would be so weird, and they'd be out pretty quick. I'd like to see homophobia treated with the same disdain.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I would suggest that it isn't that the police are scared, more that it's difficult to work out who's actually chanting. If you had 200 people in a block chanting homophobic chants, you'd need a lot of police to arrest them!

Perhaps the clubs identifying people chanting and banning them from the ground might be a better way to go.

All fair points. It still requires a proactive approach by the police in conjuncture with the stewards and club though.

 

[neilbard]

My view is that animals are for eating not ****ing. As for position, i'm happy at the dining table, on the sofa or occasionally on bed if the mood takes me

They'd probably rather be ****ed.

That's the spirit.